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DPChallenge Forums >> Individual Photograph Discussion >> Is this ethical? Do you agree or disagree?
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Showing posts 26 - 46 of 46, (reverse)
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 12/28/2006 10:20:45 PM · #26
Originally posted by petrakka:
...I kinda dig em.

Best non-commital sort-of critique I've ever seen. :) We need more like this.
 12/28/2006 10:51:13 PM · #27
Boy, this is a loaded question. If you say you like them, certainly you are sadistic, if you say you oppose, you are politically correct and well within acceptable ethical parameters.

I choose the 5th!



Message edited by author 2006-12-28 22:53:09.
 12/28/2006 11:33:47 PM · #28
This was a major discussion last year in a similar thread. I don't have issue with it as the child is not scarred or traumatized for life. Children cry because they don't have enough communicative skills to say "Give me my gosh darn lollypop back. I'm pissed."
 12/28/2006 11:37:51 PM · #29
True, children forget things like this quite easily. I mean, two-year-olds get quite upset about everything. However, an adult doing something unkind to a child for the sake of art does not seem right. These pictures express frusteration and sadness for a reason.

I feel like this is wrong more than I know that it is wrong. I don't know if you know what I mean... my conscience is bothering me and I cannot precisely identify why.
 12/28/2006 11:39:15 PM · #30
I think there was more taken away than a lollipop. My guess is she has the parents come in, help to get the shoot all set up with the kid happily licking away....and then BAM! she gets the parents to go out, snatches the lollipop and gets the desired reaction. About 10 shots later, she does some photoshopping, probably the plastics filter or something close to that and then the Mom returns, lollipop back in place, and since the kid probably has separation anxieties ANYWAY, no one is the wiser...except for the photographer.
Cool, er, I mean CRUEL TRICK.
I personally don't like photos of anyone in pain. And I don't like these either.

Message edited by author 2006-12-28 23:39:56.
 12/28/2006 11:48:47 PM · #31
Originally posted by MeGoobie:

I feel like this is wrong more than I know that it is wrong. I don't know if you know what I mean... my conscience is bothering me and I cannot precisely identify why.


Did someone take your lollipop away? :-P just kidding ;-)
 12/29/2006 12:04:16 AM · #32
Originally posted by Bosborne:
I think there was more taken away than a lollipop. My guess is she has the parents come in, help to get the shoot all set up with the kid happily licking away....and then BAM! she gets the parents to go out, snatches the lollipop and gets the desired reaction. About 10 shots later, she does some photoshopping, probably the plastics filter or something close to that and then the Mom returns, lollipop back in place, and since the kid probably has separation anxieties ANYWAY, no one is the wiser...except for the photographer.
Cool, er, I mean CRUEL TRICK.
I personally don't like photos of anyone in pain. And I don't like these either.


I don't think that's true. It seems I read or heard something back when the first thread started that the parents were aware and wanted these types of pics taken of their children.
 12/29/2006 12:23:23 AM · #33
Originally posted by Bosborne:
I think there was more taken away than a lollipop. My guess is she has the parents come in, help to get the shoot all set up with the kid happily licking away....and then BAM! she gets the parents to go out, snatches the lollipop and gets the desired reaction. About 10 shots later, she does some photoshopping, probably the plastics filter or something close to that and then the Mom returns, lollipop back in place, and since the kid probably has separation anxieties ANYWAY, no one is the wiser...except for the photographer.
Cool, er, I mean CRUEL TRICK.
I personally don't like photos of anyone in pain. And I don't like these either.


I listened to the interview with the photographer, and that's hardly the process she described. The parents knew exactly what kind of images she wanted to make of their child and were usually present in the room, the entire time. If the parents didn't know what was going on, the photographer would never have a release from the parents to use the image in the first place.

Next time instead of wildly speculating, it would be nice if you actually did some work to understand what it is you were talking about.

Message edited by author 2006-12-29 00:24:23.
 12/29/2006 12:26:01 AM · #34
Also, to add, the clip stated that lollipops were not used in all cases. Only occassionally. She said some children cried on their own because they didn't want their pics taken.
 12/29/2006 12:42:37 AM · #35
You certainly don't get that level of emotional honesty from adults unless something truly tragic has happened, and I find taking pictures of toddlers crying over lollipops far less invasive and ethically problematic than taking pictures of adults who have, say, just witnessed a loved one's murder. Anyway, I think it's interesting -- each kid seems to cope in a different way.
 12/29/2006 12:46:56 AM · #36
Originally posted by ButterflySis:
She said some children cried on their own because they didn't want their pics taken.


Been there, done that :-)
 12/29/2006 12:53:54 AM · #37
I find the images well done and aesthetically pleasing, but that's in stark contrast to their message and my emotional response to the images is unpleasant. To me, that's the appeal of these, they're nice to look at, but the feeling from the content is unpleasant.

I've had to deal with worse hissy fits over having dinner on the wrong color plate.
 12/29/2006 12:59:05 AM · #38
Originally posted by ButterflySis:
Originally posted by David.C:
Originally posted by ButterflySis:
I think her work is fantastic and very powerful.

Previous Thread is here.

Some people think it's cruel, but to me, it's no different then when your kid says in a store, "Mommy, can I look at the toy aisle?" and you say, Sure, honey." Then 10 minutes later you're telling them, "No, I told you could look, but we're not buying anything today." and you drag your kid off kicking and screaming. Does that make you a horrible person for teasing your kid with toys?


I don't know about you, but I don't send the kid into the toy isle with the intention of making them scream.

There is a significant difference!

David


I can't think of many (any?) kids around that age that are perfectly fine spending time in the toy aisle, playing with the toys, and then having to leave with nothing. They are almost always upset because they want to take it home. I know I was! ...

Sure, I was as well -- as are my children. But you seem to have missed the point of my response. I doubt your parents allowed you to go to the toy isle just to make you cry. They, most likely, allowed you to go knowing you would be upset later -- but that isn't the same intention.

To intentionally take actions to gain anothers trust (attention, affection, etc) with the intention of betraying that trust is wrong. IMO, There is no amount of justification that can make that sort of emotional treason right.

David
 12/29/2006 01:07:57 AM · #39
You guys all miss one major point. She obviously has to get permission from the parents to do all of this work. So, really, it is the parent's ethics that should be under scrutiny here rather than the photographer. The photographer isnt doing anything that those kids parents dont approve of.
 12/29/2006 09:05:21 AM · #40
Not only unethical - but downright cruel as well. Both on the part of the photographer as well as the parents.

These children are so very young - so trusting - to betray them and intentionally cause this kind of intense, raw emotion without comforting the child immediately is just wrong.

I know that for me - my job as a parent (of 3 children, the oldest being only 4 years old) - is to PROTECT them. Not only from physical harm, but from emotional harm as well !
 12/29/2006 09:08:44 AM · #41
Originally posted by hsteg:
You guys all miss one major point. She obviously has to get permission from the parents to do all of this work. So, really, it is the parent's ethics that should be under scrutiny here rather than the photographer. The photographer isnt doing anything that those kids parents dont approve of.


That is a leap of logic I do not understand. Two adults collaborating over something does not necessarily make it right. Even if one is the parent.

I find the technique in this photography very dramatic. I also find the photo itself a little disquieting, but that is pretty obvious in its purpose.

As far as whether it is a moral or ethical outrage? Meh... I have not listened to the podcast, but from what I gather here this was not something along the lines of abuse, and there are far greater injustices out there to get worked up over. But I'd have a tough time letting my kid be deliberately upset just because of the emotional currency spent being too close to the source.

Message edited by author 2006-12-29 09:09:23.
 12/29/2006 10:05:40 AM · #42
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
...they're nice to look at, but the feeling from the content is unpleasant.


A curious juxtaposition of irony.
 12/29/2006 10:07:33 AM · #43
Originally posted by kashi:
These children are so very young - so trusting - to betray them and intentionally cause this kind of intense, raw emotion without comforting the child immediately is just wrong.

I don't think you can suggest you know the circumstances of the shoot, or how the child was ultimately treated.
 12/29/2006 10:13:17 AM · #44
Hate the the picture, LOVE the web site. All other photos are great.
 12/29/2006 10:14:43 AM · #45
Yes, the bear serie is so touching !!
 01/02/2007 01:57:25 PM · #46
an interesting discussion on these images at T.O.P., particularly the follow-on comments from Mike that aim to set some sort of relative scale for the outrage.
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