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DPChallenge Forums >> Administrator Announcements >> Rules Revision Test Results and Expert Editing (Trial) Discussion
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Showing posts 201 - 225 of 318, (reverse)
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12/31/2006 02:47:45 PM · #201
Originally posted by kirbic:

Heaven help us if we ever have a "Hitchcock" challenge in Expert! ;-)


LMAO
12/31/2006 03:25:25 PM · #202
"All disqualifications are determined by majority vote of the Site Council."

Dang it's been raining all day, I'm not good at drawing birds, can I lasso some clip art or graphic and then delete it? And then use my feather texture.

Rule clarification needed, perhaps?

12/31/2006 04:24:49 PM · #203
I think routerguy666 and bear music are both reaching for a non-subjective criterion, something intuitively obvious, and proving that it does not exist. A line does have to be drawn, and it has to be drawn by the SC, subjectively. That's just the way it is.
01/22/2007 10:46:13 PM · #204
So I readed in this thread about painting on your picture, and as I was worried since I added something drawed to my "Fill the frame" submission I went to the Help page and submited a ticket in the general inquiry for the SC to check on my pic and tell me if it`s alright.. It was today, and I dont want to start a thread to ask this, I just want to know, how long may it take for the SC to answer me, since I may have to re-shoot or re-edit and I don`t want to do it at the last minute.
01/22/2007 10:49:28 PM · #205
Originally posted by Gaby_G:

So I readed in this thread about painting on your picture, and as I was worried since I added something drawed to my "Fill the frame" submission I went to the Help page and submited a ticket in the general inquiry for the SC to check on my pic and tell me if it`s alright.. It was today, and I dont want to start a thread to ask this, I just want to know, how long may it take for the SC to answer me, since I may have to re-shoot or re-edit and I don`t want to do it at the last minute.


Last week I sent a ticket to sc regarding an entry and they got back to me within 24 hours, which I was more than happy with and allowed me to re-edit with time to spare.
good luck
nick
01/22/2007 10:56:42 PM · #206
Gaby, you should get a response early tomorrow. Just waiting for another opinion or two.
01/22/2007 10:59:17 PM · #207
Oh ok :D thank you very mucho!! :)
01/22/2007 11:02:11 PM · #208
Um... or right now. ;-)
01/22/2007 11:09:59 PM · #209
Uuuuhhh! that was fast!!! :D thanks!!!! Now I can go to sleep :P
04/04/2007 09:14:13 PM · #210
If I use a round selection, color it white, then color in little areas to make craters, thus producing exactly the same pixels as in Judi's DQ'd shot in the Vanish challenge, is that still DQable? It's all my own work.

If the response is "yes, it's DQable because you're creating photo-like elements," then again I have to ask what the difference is between that and drawing birds. Size? I don't think it's "something that changes the description" because both of the bird examples add a lot of impact and definitely change my description of the shots.

Now, if the answer is "some SC would say it's DQable and others not, so it's a majority vote," it would be helpful to provide some examples. I can live with ambiguity, but especially since these rules are still in trial mode, examples would go a long way toward explaining what's safe, what's DQable, and what treads the line. And why. Something like Scalvert's tutorial on "artwork."

Thanks to SC for trying to help us broaden the editing options while staying withing some bounds. :)

Message edited by author 2007-04-04 21:14:32.
04/04/2007 09:38:56 PM · #211
Hi Levy,

I'll quote Kirbic from earlier in this thread:
Originally posted by kirbic:

.... we ruled that it is not out of bounds in Expert Rules to hand-draw small elements, such as the birds in Bear's shot from "Sky." This has apparently confused many, who thought that this hand-drawing was strictly prrohibited. In Expert, it is currently not prohibited, but is on the borderline and should be used with extreme care.

The logic behind this ruling is this: we do allow use of other source data that is outside the "digital camera with EXIF" and challenge date rules, that source data being textures. This much is true even in Advanced. Therefore the ruling on hand-drawn elements does not break any new ground in this respect. The probihition on clip art in Expert is only meant to close the loophole through which someone could submit an image made up entirely or substantially of out-of-date, created artwork.

I hope this explanation clarifies why this ruling was made the way it was. Time will tell whether this ruling stands or is modified. "Bear" in mind that the Expert rules are in trial, and not cast in concrete.


The above should clear up the bird question.

Whether or not a particular crater or set of craters makes up a "substantial" portion of an image is rather subjective. It's kind of hard to work up a tutorial when we are still in Trial phase; the best thing to do is to submit a ticket, let us review, and then maybe we can post the results of the review here in the thread? Is that fair?

For reference, the shot Levyj413 refers to (that did not pass the graphic/clip art test) is this one:

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/660/thumb/491283.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/660/thumb/491283.jpg', '/') + 1) . '


04/04/2007 09:53:50 PM · #212
Laurie, I'm sorry, but I'm still not getting it (I read Kirbic's post before I posted my questions). In the thread Judi created, you seemed to say her entry was DQd because the planets were a graphic. But now you're talking about size.

Is the difference between Judi's shot in the Vanish challenge and Bear's/Kiwiness's in the Sky challenge:

1) Judi's looks like a graphic. Bear's and Kiwiness's birds didn't look like a graphic. It doesn't matter how it was created: clip art, hand-painting, or whatever other technique. If it looks like a graphic, it's DQable.
If so, then the important thing for us to watch is the nature of what we create, regardless of how we create it. Hand-painted planets would be DQable just because of how they appear, aside from the question of size.

or

2) Judi's planets were created by pasting in a a graphic (even via a filter), while Bear_Music and Kiwi hand-painted their birds. Judi's wasn't her own work.
If so, then the method matters, not the results. Hand-painting planets would be legit, aside from the question of size.

or

3) Judi's additions struck at least half the SC as being too big and important in terms of composition, while Bear's and Kiwiness' didn't.
If so, then we have to be careful of how big we make additions. How we do it doesn't matter, but bigger is on shakier ground than smaller.

or

[4]Some combination of 1, 2, and 3

Message edited by author 2007-04-04 21:55:05.
04/04/2007 10:13:43 PM · #213
Hi Levy,

Not to worry, this is what we are here for.

I wouldn't presume to speak definitively for the entire SC, so maybe the others can also jump in and help out with this question.

IMO, the difference between the two shots you mention is (4) - specifically, a combination of mostly (3) and a little bit of (2) with the caveat that this ruleset is results-based rather than method-based. Whether you add someone else's clip-art/graphic to your shot via filter, plug-in, copy/paste, whatever... graphics and clip-art are not permitted.

Hand-drawing SMALL elements is borderline; it was permitted previously on some entries but no guarantees on others. Don't forget that Bear pre-submitted his shot to the SC - that's a good idea if someone feels that their own hand-drawn item might be in question.

Does this help?
04/05/2007 12:06:04 AM · #214
A bit of a different question, here...

Kirbic says:
we do allow use of other source data that is outside the "digital camera with EXIF" and challenge date rules, that source data being textures. This much is true even in Advanced.

The rules for advanced say:
You must create your entry from a single capture.

Kirbic isn't meaning that we are allowed to take another photo (outside the date range if desired) and overlay it as a texture, right? Is what he means that we can use a pre-defined texture in Photoshop?

I don't even know if my question is clear, sorry. I just want clarification on what Kirbic was saying. Please let me know if I should post somewhere else.
04/05/2007 12:08:22 AM · #215
Originally posted by L2:

Hand-drawing SMALL elements is borderline; it was permitted previously on some entries but no guarantees on others. Don't forget that Bear pre-submitted his shot to the SC - that's a good idea if someone feels that their own hand-drawn item might be in question.


Would changing the color of something (skin or eyes or fabric) in different ways to create designs that weren't already there be fine, or part of the borderline area?
04/05/2007 12:36:58 AM · #216
Originally posted by levyj413:

Is the difference between Judi's shot in the Vanish challenge and Bear's/Kiwiness's in the Sky challenge...


IMO, it's all #2. You can include someone else's artwork as part of a greater composition in your capture, but you can't add clip art or photos taken by other people and/or outside the challenge dates in post-processing (whether it's pasted-in or added with a filter). To address klstover's question, the only exception is textures. You can use any existing image as a texture (which is essentially what Photoshop's texture filter does) as long as it obviously functions as a texture. You cannot, for example, add a layer of discreet objects and call that a "texture," but something like wood grain or grunge would be fine.

FWIW (and this is just my opinion), the Expert Editing rules were never intended as a Photoshop free-for-all, and will likely be modified soon. I think what we'd like to achieve is a ruleset like Advanced, but with the added flexibility of true HDR, stitched panoramas, stacked astrophotographs, multiple exposures from the same camera position, the freedom to deal with more significant distractions, etc. Obviously, there have been some pretty extreme photo composites entered under this ruleset already, but that's why it's a trial. ;-)
04/05/2007 12:53:27 AM · #217
In regards to using clip art, what if Judi had printed out the clip art and then taken a picture of it, then used it as one of her photos in a composite? Would that be legal? If that's not legal because of the artwork rule then what if she took a picture of that printed clip art with a fig leaf in the shot? Legal now?

Message edited by author 2007-04-05 00:54:21.
04/05/2007 01:35:09 AM · #218
Ok, I'm kind of shaky on what to know for sure would constitute a 'texture'. Here is an example of something I've done recently playing around:
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/19831/thumb/493089.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/19831/thumb/493089.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

I took a crop from this older shot of mine: ' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/19831/thumb/493090.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/19831/thumb/493090.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

I then pasted that crop on a layer, and dropped the opacity way down. Would that be a 'texture', and be legal, even though the brick photo was out of challenge dates?
04/05/2007 02:10:40 AM · #219
Originally posted by scalvert:

FWIW (and this is just my opinion), the Expert Editing rules were never intended as a Photoshop free-for-all, and will likely be modified soon. I think what we'd like to achieve is a ruleset like Advanced, but with the added flexibility of ... multiple exposures from the same camera position.


Thanks, Laurie and Shannon. I'm all set with my original questions.

Shannon, by "multiple exposures from the same camera position," do you mean to include multiple-personality shots like this?
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/60862/thumb/401042.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/60862/thumb/401042.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

That is, I know it's legal now, but do you envision it remaining legal even after the modifications?

If not, do you have an example of what you mean?
04/05/2007 02:51:54 PM · #220
Originally posted by taterbug:

Ok, I'm kind of shaky on what to know for sure would constitute a 'texture'. Here is an example of something I've done recently playing around:
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/19831/thumb/493089.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/19831/thumb/493089.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

I took a crop from this older shot of mine: ' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/19831/thumb/493090.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/19831/thumb/493090.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

I then pasted that crop on a layer, and dropped the opacity way down. Would that be a 'texture', and be legal, even though the brick photo was out of challenge dates?


What you've done is fine, taterbug. The reason really has to do with the dropped opacity and the repeating pattern of your "texture" image.
04/05/2007 03:25:54 PM · #221
Originally posted by scalvert:


FWIW (and this is just my opinion), the Expert Editing rules were never intended as a Photoshop free-for-all, and will likely be modified soon. I think what we'd like to achieve is a ruleset like Advanced, but with the added flexibility of true HDR, stitched panoramas, stacked astrophotographs, multiple exposures from the same camera position, the freedom to deal with more significant distractions, etc. Obviously, there have been some pretty extreme photo composites entered under this ruleset already, but that's why it's a trial. ;-)


That's perfect and keeps it more photographic oriented.
04/09/2007 12:32:51 PM · #222
I am still not entirely clear on what all is allowed with this ruleset. Would this photo here be allowed in an expert editing challenge? The moon and stars were made in photoshop. Would this moon be DQ'able on the same grounds that Judi's photo was disqualified because of the planets.??
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/67723/thumb/490214.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/67723/thumb/490214.jpg', '/') + 1) . '
04/09/2007 12:36:43 PM · #223
Originally posted by mnphotoblogger:

I am still not entirely clear on what all is allowed with this ruleset. Would this photo here be allowed in an expert editing challenge? The moon and stars were made in photoshop. Would this moon be DQ'able on the same grounds that Judi's photo was disqualified because of the planets.??
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/67723/thumb/490214.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/67723/thumb/490214.jpg', '/') + 1) . '


This would probably be OK. Judi's was DQ'd because of the use of clip art, I believe.

In this one, I created the stars from scratch in PS. The moon is real, but from another exposure.

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/600/thumb/437376.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/600/thumb/437376.jpg', '/') + 1) . '
04/10/2007 06:57:18 PM · #224
yes, under the current trial version of the rules, scrbrd's photo is legal, but its borderline and this is one of the issues we're looking at to see if we continue with these rules as they are or we try another variation. :)
04/13/2007 11:29:57 AM · #225
Perhaps I missed these somewhat mundane concepts discussed earlier but I will ask again for comments anyway.

I assume that these things are allowed in 'expert' editing:

1-Composites for such things as sky/background replacements as long as all images are taken within the challenge week. Panoramas and other multi-image presentations(like HDR) of a scene would also be included.

2-Adding 'traditional' graphic image texturing for added image impact.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My questions... Do these things fall within the conceptual scope of 'expert' editing?...

1-Copy objects from one image to another to build a 'better' composition.

2-Move objects from one place in an image to another and/or rescale them for 'better' composition, increased image interest or impact.

3-Duplicate objects in an image and/or copy and duplicate them from another image (taken during the week, of course), rescale and use that to compose your final image.

4-Use exaggerated scaling of an object or objects within an otherwise properly scaled composition for added image interest or create unusual photographic effects.

5-Radically change lighting direction, color and intensity to create an effect that did not previously exist in an image.

Most things I would use 'expert' rules for would probably be indistiguishable from a 'regular' photograph. But if voters want to support a bend toward digital art through their votes then I'd have no problem with that... a good image is a good image as far as I am concerned, regardless how it is obtained. Photographic digital art has a growing place in modern photography.
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