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DPChallenge Forums >> Administrator Announcements >> Rules Revision Test Results and Expert Editing (Trial) Discussion
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Showing posts 226 - 250 of 318, (reverse)
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04/13/2007 11:37:45 AM · #226
I think that we currently allow all 5 of those in Expert, from my interpretation of the rules, but I'd wait for a few more SC to chime in before taking that as gospel if I were you :o)
04/17/2007 06:25:40 PM · #227
tell me please, if I paint, say, a sketch using ps brushes, just some lines, a flower or just lines on my photo, under the expert rules, will it get dq-ed?
thank you!
06/29/2007 05:06:06 PM · #228
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:


Over the last few weeks, we have developed a trial version of the first of these new rule sets. Known as the Expert Editing rules, these new rules permit a wide variety of modifications. As noted in the overview, "A full range of editing tools are allowed for touch-up and enhancement as well as for image modification. Please remember, however, that this is a photography contest. You are encouraged to keep your entries photographic in nature, and voters are encouraged to rate entries accordingly."


So how's the trial going? As i looked at the recent science fiction entries, it seems that a huge majority of the photos in that challenge don't care much for the 'photographic in nature' portion...
06/29/2007 05:16:22 PM · #229
Originally posted by jmsetzler:

So how's the trial going? As i looked at the recent science fiction entries, it seems that a huge majority of the photos in that challenge don't care much for the 'photographic in nature' portion...

I got the same feeling. Looks more like 3D rendering ("Photoshopping"). But, that's just me.
06/29/2007 05:26:06 PM · #230
I think two factors are in play influencing the balance between "photography" and "digital art" in this case -- there have still been few enough Expert challenges that I suspect many people are still experimenting with new techniques trying to find their own balance point, and this particular topic ("Science Fiction") simply begs for excessive "special effects" treatment.
06/29/2007 05:27:25 PM · #231
Originally posted by GeneralE:

I think two factors are in play influencing the balance between "photography" and "digital art" in this case -- there have still been few enough Expert challenges that I suspect many people are still experimenting with new techniques trying to find their own balance point, and this particular topic ("Science Fiction") simply begs for excessive "special effects" treatment.


Exactly.
06/29/2007 06:26:57 PM · #232
Originally posted by GeneralE:

I think two factors are in play influencing the balance between "photography" and "digital art" in this case -- there have still been few enough Expert challenges that I suspect many people are still experimenting with new techniques trying to find their own balance point, and this particular topic ("Science Fiction") simply begs for excessive "special effects" treatment.


So, if it's still a trial and if it's believed that people would go for "special effects" with a challenge like this, why was this particular challenge announced in the first place?

Was it to find out what people would do in such a challenge? Is it about gathering enough data about what we do with tools?
06/29/2007 06:43:21 PM · #233
Originally posted by xion:


Was it to find out what people would do in such a challenge? Is it about gathering enough data about what we do with tools?


Im guessing its about having fun ;)
06/29/2007 06:47:25 PM · #234
Originally posted by silverfoxx:

tell me please, if I paint, say, a sketch using ps brushes, just some lines, a flower or just lines on my photo, under the expert rules, will it get dq-ed?
thank you!


I didn't see an answer to this, and this is something that I have a question about also. If I use brushes that I create from my own photos, is this allowed in Expert?
06/29/2007 07:05:23 PM · #235
Originally posted by LindaLee:

Originally posted by silverfoxx:

tell me please, if I paint, say, a sketch using ps brushes, just some lines, a flower or just lines on my photo, under the expert rules, will it get dq-ed?
thank you!


I didn't see an answer to this, and this is something that I have a question about also. If I use brushes that I create from my own photos, is this allowed in Expert?


Another question, is this really photography any more? Just a question. ;o)
06/29/2007 07:24:00 PM · #236
Originally posted by cpanaioti:


Another question, is this really photography any more? Just a question. ;o)


Somewhat, but not really.

I think what's needed is a redefinition of "photographic in nature"

The way it is now, a P.S. guru can take an out of focus image of a dogs butt, and transform it into a beautiful work of digital art.

I think that would be great, for a digital art contest site, but not so great for this digital photography contest site.
06/29/2007 07:25:23 PM · #237
Originally posted by cpanaioti:

Originally posted by LindaLee:

Originally posted by silverfoxx:

tell me please, if I paint, say, a sketch using ps brushes, just some lines, a flower or just lines on my photo, under the expert rules, will it get dq-ed?
thank you!


I didn't see an answer to this, and this is something that I have a question about also. If I use brushes that I create from my own photos, is this allowed in Expert?


Another question, is this really photography any more? Just a question. ;o)

Let's call it mixed media.
06/29/2007 07:33:47 PM · #238
Originally posted by genghis:


The way it is now, a P.S. guru can take an out of focus image of a dogs cow's butt, and transform it into a beautiful work of digital art.

Or the other way around like Slippy did with a portrait of mine.
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Message edited by author 2007-06-29 19:34:00.
06/29/2007 07:34:14 PM · #239
IMO, there is a lot of junk, and a few really nice images in Sci-Fi... How is this different from any other challenge?

Expert editing is new, so people are testing the waters to find out what the voters like. I imagine those more photographic and less digital art will naturally find their way to the front page.

Besides, like Justin said - it's just fun.
06/29/2007 07:42:56 PM · #240
that's sooooooooo not right Brad... lmao
06/29/2007 08:27:55 PM · #241
Originally posted by GeneralE:

I think two factors are in play influencing the balance between "photography" and "digital art" in this case -- there have still been few enough Expert challenges that I suspect many people are still experimenting with new techniques trying to find their own balance point, and this particular topic ("Science Fiction") simply begs for excessive "special effects" treatment.


A nice sugar coating.

What it *is* is simply another step to blurring lines that shouldn't be blurred.

I have no problem whatsoever with people that want to do this kind of work, and it seems like there are a significant number of people that want to do this kind of work.. but going through the Sci-Fi challenge, I can tell you one thing right now.. there is a *miniscule* amount of entries that even come close to falling into the realm of photograpy. We cannot continue to let Digital Art compete *with* Photography. It's as simple as that.

If there is a completely separate challenge, designed and advertised as digital art... I would have no problem with that whatsoever. However, as it stands, the Sci-Fi challenge makes an absolute and disgusting mockery of what Expert Editing should stand for when it comes to photographic work.

Anyone and everyone that is participating in this challenge can stand up and scream all you want, but the fact remains that we went over-board here, and it's time to: a) Reel it back in a little and b) Work on a way to separate these elements completely before it's too late. Before DPC becomes "just another digital art website" in a sea of digital art websites.

I don't want to see Digital Farked Photography Art dot com in 2 years.

*EDIT* To tell the truth, what *I* would like to see is a "sister" site developed. One that focuses completely on Digital Art Challenges alone. Langdon, boy, listen up.. get yourself some helpers and develop something. It's obvious there's a call for it.

Message edited by author 2007-06-29 20:42:16.
06/29/2007 08:43:49 PM · #242
I think ya all get too personal about your photographs. This is about having fun sharing ideas learning a little bit and going to the bar now and then. oh having gtg's. I think this challenge has opened up the doors on what is allowed so have some fun and let's see what ya got! I don't have that much right now but I'm learning, If ya just can't or dont wana do the expert challenges then leave us alone.lol
06/29/2007 08:45:03 PM · #243
I have to say I agree with Artyste... I AM in the Sci Fi challenge & I do want to play by these new rules.. But, I guess I can't have it both ways.. I'd like to have a little more room to wiggle when it comes to expert editing, but to me, it's getting over edge.. And, there's no way to define where that edge ends & begins.. :-(
06/29/2007 08:46:00 PM · #244
How many Expert rules challenges have we had, maybe five? Out of over six hundred challenges?

I don't see a problem with letting people edit without restriction on rare occasions -- if you don't like the result, give it a low vote. I don't see this in any way as a threat to our "normal" challenges or way of doing business.
06/29/2007 08:48:30 PM · #245
My suspicion is some of the more subtly edited shots will prevail. Just a hunch though. It's been true of the past expert editing challenges.
06/29/2007 08:50:49 PM · #246
Originally posted by Artyste:



What it *is* is simply another step to blurring lines that shouldn't be blurred.

I have no problem whatsoever with people that want to do this kind of work, and it seems like there are a significant number of people that want to do this kind of work.. but going through the Sci-Fi challenge, I can tell you one thing right now.. there is a *miniscule* amount of entries that even come close to falling into the realm of photograpy. We cannot continue to let Digital Art compete *with* Photography. It's as simple as that.

If there is a completely separate challenge, designed and advertised as digital art... I would have no problem with that whatsoever. However, as it stands, the Sci-Fi challenge makes an absolute and disgusting mockery of what Expert Editing should stand for when it comes to photographic work.

Anyone and everyone that is participating in this challenge can stand up and scream all you want, but the fact remains that we went over-board here, and it's time to: a) Reel it back in a little and b) Work on a way to separate these elements completely before it's too late. Before DPC becomes "just another digital art website" in a sea of digital art websites.



I like good old fashion photography. It does have it's place. And hopefully will only change by how the photo is taken.

I would like to point out one minor thing in your dissertation. Out of four (4) rule sets in DPC, three(3) are strictly for photography. The fourth is for the rest that want just a bit more.

Ya know, no matter what, combustion engines are going to be replaced by more efficient, non-polluting engines. Robots will be more influential in human lives. Computers will control more. The moon will be colonized.

Advancement in new camera technologies will make the best SLR obsolete.

My point being this. You can take the tried and true, keep it safe, stay with it until end of days. That is really ok. I have no problem with that. A protector of sorts is needed so as generations after us will know what photography was.

But, while you are protecting the values, and virtues of photography, be aware that you will be left behind.

DPC is just using smart business sense offering an Expert rule set, for the future of it's survival. Besides, the rule set does say "Photographic by nature". It does not say anything about "Digital Art by nature".

DPC is still a photographic site what ever the bitch is, and what ever the rules are at the time.


06/29/2007 09:08:18 PM · #247
Originally posted by Man_Called_Horse:


I like good old fashion photography. It does have it's place. And hopefully will only change by how the photo is taken.

I would like to point out one minor thing in your dissertation. Out of four (4) rule sets in DPC, three(3) are strictly for photography. The fourth is for the rest that want just a bit more.


Have you *seen* the sci-fi challenge? That's not a "bit more", it's going from dageurreotype to Hassleblad H3D in one giant step. The expert rules were *never* intended to allow work such as the like I see in that challenge.

Originally posted by Man_Called_Horse:

Ya know, no matter what, combustion engines are going to be replaced by more efficient, non-polluting engines. Robots will be more influential in human lives. Computers will control more. The moon will be colonized.


This is a pointless bit to add really, as I never advocated getting rid of such, just making it much, much, much more separate. I know this site too well, if digital art work.. which "realism" in photography could never compete with on that all important mass market WOW scale that DPC pretty much *lives* off, is allowed to be incorporated on a scale like this latest challenge shows it's capable of.. well, it's worse case scenario obviously, but it's really quite disappointing.

Originally posted by Man_Called_Horse:

Advancement in new camera technologies will make the best SLR obsolete.

My point being this. You can take the tried and true, keep it safe, stay with it until end of days. That is really ok. I have no problem with that. A protector of sorts is needed so as generations after us will know what photography was.

But, while you are protecting the values, and virtues of photography, be aware that you will be left behind.


Left behind!? There are still painters in this world. There are still wood carvers. There are still people that make mosaics out of rocks. Nobody is being "left behind". Every art form is viable and relevant in its own right, and to take the stance that because another art form is the "new thing" means that anything else is old hat, obsolete, or in any other way "left behind" is a little silly.

Originally posted by Man_Called_Horse:

DPC is just using smart business sense offering an Expert rule set, for the future of it's survival. Besides, the rule set does say "Photographic by nature". It does not say anything about "Digital Art by nature".

DPC is still a photographic site what ever the bitch is, and what ever the rules are at the time.


I think I actually left an idea on how DPC can use good business sense to offer a way for Digital Artists to thrive. Hmm.. Yup, I did. On the second point, if you truly go through the entire Sci-Fi challenge, I challenge *you* to find me (once it's done) 10 examples that are "photographic by nature".

I simply feel that this is a warning sign that we need to heed.. but by all means, if the majority rules and wants this kind of work to become an integral part of DPC, then by all means.. that's what is going to happen.. but I'm not going to sit back and just let it go without voicing my concerns. I was drawn to this website originally BECAUSE it wanted to try and preserve some integrity in the photographic process... but I guess if the masses only crave WOW, then this road was inevitable.. you can only wow people with the same cookie-cutter bullshit for so long.

Message edited by author 2007-06-29 21:10:15.
06/29/2007 09:12:22 PM · #248
Originally posted by Artyste:

The expert rules were *never* intended to allow work such as the like I see in that challenge.

I disagree. By their very nature, the rules allow that kind of work. Not that I, personally, like it much. For those that don't, you have the option of voting based on the photographic qualities of said images, just as the rules also allow (i.e., vote low).
06/29/2007 09:16:03 PM · #249
Originally posted by Louis:

Originally posted by Artyste:

The expert rules were *never* intended to allow work such as the like I see in that challenge.

I disagree. By their very nature, the rules allow that kind of work. Not that I, personally, like it much. For those that don't, you have the option of voting based on the photographic qualities of said images, just as the rules also allow (i.e., vote low).


It's been well documented that the rules need changes, and that certain works go far beyond the spirit intended.. and the sci-fi challenge is full of works of this nature.

But.. I'm done arguing anyway, I've stated my case. I just don't believe DPC itself needs to be an "all-in-one".. but I'm well aware I don't have to continue to be a part of it if it continues that way as well.. soo...
06/29/2007 09:26:49 PM · #250
Originally posted by Artyste:

What it *is* is simply another step to blurring lines that shouldn't be blurred.


The line is already blurred. It started blurred. It's been blurred since painters used camera obscura in the Renaissance.
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