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11/23/2006 08:12:13 AM · #26 |
| If you only vote 5-10, you lower the range of your votes and they don't count as much in the final rankings. If you use the entire range, 1-10, your votes count more. I have to admit that I don't use the entire range either (I don't give out 1's) but as I get more confidence in my judging, maybe I should. DIVIAN, "good" photographers are able to please their clients. I think of dpc voters as my client. Sure, sometimes I put in a photo I really like and know it won't do well. Often I am dissapointed with my score. I try to learn from that and improve. Good Luck |
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11/23/2006 08:41:55 AM · #27 |
Originally posted by cloudsme:
If you only vote 5-10, you lower the range of your votes and they don't count as much in the final rankings. |
I see where you are going with that, but for people like me, it still boggles my mind how some people choose to give out their "1"s. I'd love to know what criteria they base the 1 vote on. Maybe someone who voted a 1 on this shot could explain their criteria in here or in PM, so that I might better understand it. I'm not saying that to be able to point and laugh at the people giving out 1s, I'm saying it out of a real -academic as it were- interest in the resoning that has gone into giving that shot, or other shots, a 1 score.
For example, with my voting criteria, I would start at the 5 point. If a photo fails to meet the challenge, I'll likely deduct a certain number of points, same as if it is small or totally blurred through camera shake, etc. So, say, a photo was small, blurry, and didn't meet the challenge, then it might go down to a 1 or 2. But then good points of the photo will count positive - wow factor, composition, colour balance or the like. So it's unlikely that a photo is going to get a 1 or 2, unless it has literally no redeeming factors.
So how does a photo qualify for a 1?
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11/23/2006 08:46:59 AM · #28 |
Originally posted by mist:
Originally posted by cloudsme:
If you only vote 5-10, you lower the range of your votes and they don't count as much in the final rankings. |
I see where you are going with that, but for people like me, it still boggles my mind how some people choose to give out their "1"s. I'd love to know what criteria they base the 1 vote on. Maybe someone who voted a 1 on this shot could explain their criteria in here or in PM, so that I might better understand it. I'm not saying that to be able to point and laugh at the people giving out 1s, I'm saying it out of a real -academic as it were- interest in the resoning that has gone into giving that shot, or other shots, a 1 score.
For example, with my voting criteria, I would start at the 5 point. If a photo fails to meet the challenge, I'll likely deduct a certain number of points, same as if it is small or totally blurred through camera shake, etc. So, say, a photo was small, blurry, and didn't meet the challenge, then it might go down to a 1 or 2. But then good points of the photo will count positive - wow factor, composition, colour balance or the like. So it's unlikely that a photo is going to get a 1 or 2, unless it has literally no redeeming factors.
So how does a photo qualify for a 1? |
some vote on a curve so a one could be what they thought was the worst (or tied for the worst) in the challenge. |
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11/23/2006 08:52:23 AM · #29 |
Originally posted by mist:
So how does a photo qualify for a 1? |
If i can give out a 10 for an exceptionally good shot, why not give a 1 to an underexposed, motion-blurred, oversharpened crap with a tilted horizon?
I give out 1s as seldom as 10s, but I use the whole range - that's what it is for. If noone gave out 1s, the two would be the lowest score and nothing would change except we had a smaller range to choose from.
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11/23/2006 08:55:28 AM · #30 |
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If i can give out a 10 for an exceptionally good shot, why not give a 1 to an underexposed, motion-blurred, oversharpened crap with a tilted horizon?
I give out 1s as seldom as 10s, but I use the whole range - that's what it is for. If noone gave out 1s, the two would be the lowest score and nothing would change except we had a smaller range to choose from.
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Right... why not vote only on entries that score a 1 or only score a 10...
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11/23/2006 08:58:04 AM · #31 |
Originally posted by gusto:
Right... why not vote only on entries that score a 1 or only score a 10... |
yes, or only vote 10s for the 20% best photos - oh, too bad, those votes will be cleaned out
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11/23/2006 09:00:39 AM · #32 |
Originally posted by eyewave:
Originally posted by mist:
So how does a photo qualify for a 1? |
If i can give out a 10 for an exceptionally good shot, why not give a 1 to an underexposed, motion-blurred, oversharpened crap with a tilted horizon?
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There is no reason. But to give a specific example, this stamp shot wasn't a particular example of those qualities IMO.
I'm not saying that people shouldn't give out 1s, the nature of the challenge suggests that some photos will eventually qualify for one, I'm just wondering how people come to the decision. |
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11/23/2006 09:04:04 AM · #33 |
In the US school system, everything below 50 is failing. I think many people bring this mind set to the voting. The scale goes from 1 to 10, Think of one as really bad, not five as really bad. If you were to grade all of the photos on a sliding scale, the worst get ones and the best get tens and all the rest fall in between, Score however you like, but realize that this is also how others might score.
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11/23/2006 09:04:44 AM · #34 |
Originally posted by mist:
But to give a specific example, this stamp shot wasn't a particular example of those qualities IMO.
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I didn't vote on that image, and if I had, it wouldn't have been a 1. Besides that, the image in question did receive a 10 and 18 8s, and imho it isn't worth that, is it?
Message edited by author 2006-11-23 09:05:00.
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11/23/2006 09:07:50 AM · #35 |
Welcome Divian...
I always find these voting discussions interesting because there are so many theories of voting used. But in my limited time on DPC I've entered 8 challenges and one thing I've noticed is that the results are usually pretty close to a normal distribution. There will be a high central point with scores tailing off to each side. Even your shot is pretty normally distributed around the average with a slight skew to the low side.
Do you realize that if you take the nine 1s from your score the average changes from 4.75 to 4.92.Even if you take all of the 1s and 2s from your score the average only rises to 5.18. It still remains a slightly below average score if the average score at DPC is around 5.4.
I guess my point is that the extreme tails of the distribution don’t impact your score as much as some would think. Just celebrate that you’re hearing all of the voices of the choir even though you may not like their song.
Message edited by author 2006-11-23 09:08:31. |
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11/23/2006 09:08:24 AM · #36 |
British Humour may not be dpc's cup of tea. Your lone submission probably should not sour your enthusiasm. The initial box office for Alec Guinness, (a modern master of that genre) was not steller either, but it did not stop him from making other pictures.
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11/23/2006 09:17:02 AM · #37 |
Originally posted by DIVIAN:
I am sick of tacky sunsets and colourful silly flowers... |
How do you feel about cats?
My guess is you'll blend in here just fine. |
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11/23/2006 09:17:37 AM · #38 |
Now let’s talk voting philosophy. First of all I enjoy that everyone has their own approach after all we are a diverse group of people it’s to be expected. But here’s my approach. I use the whole scale although I rarely vote a 1,2,9 or 10. I usually place my cursor on 6 and work up or down from there. A vast majority of my votes are in the 4 to 7 range. My current average is 5.45 which seems to reflect the mid point of the norm for the community.
I also try to vote on all entries in a given challenge. I usually skip entire challenges if I don’t have the time to vote on all of the entries. I consider voting for all a “paying forward” for what I get from DPC. Why should I limit my votes to only shots I like? How will the others learn if they don’t receive votes or comments?
You’re entitled to your own style of voting but I think you limit yourself and you penalize the ones that could learn the most from your experience by not voting for them.
Message edited by author 2006-11-23 09:54:08. |
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11/23/2006 09:34:17 AM · #39 |
I have to take exception with this comment...
Originally posted by DIVIAN:
I was complaing about the level of photography knowledge around here, and the fact that most ppl like tacky shots. I was expecting a low score. |
As I said above this is a diverse community. We range from beginers to professionals and our tastes range as much as our skill levels. What is tacky to you will be fine art to others. As in any community a norm for quality will form and we may find ourselves outside that norm. That's Ok. I've heard longer-term members say that the norm changes from time to time as well. So, keep on submitting what is right for you and teach us to appreciate your style. But in the interim try not to criticize the the community too harshly. I think even an experience person like you will learn from DPC if you open yourself to it.
BTW.. One very positive thing I noticed in your profile is the number of comments you've left already. That's the way you can share your experience best. I even saw one sunrise that you rated as a 10! :-)
Message edited by author 2006-11-23 09:53:04. |
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11/23/2006 09:43:47 AM · #40 |
| How many of these threads have to be started a week? Can't they immediately be moved to rant (or maybe make a new Whine forum) so you don't have to come in and mark them ignore all the time? |
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11/23/2006 09:49:56 AM · #41 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by DIVIAN:
I am sick of tacky sunsets and colourful silly flowers... |
Can I get away with sunrises? :-)
R. |
Yes Bear_Music you can, your sunrises are one of the pure joys of this site. |
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11/23/2006 09:50:00 AM · #42 |
| thank you very much for your posts, DJWoodward. Thank you mist and undieyatch! I guess you are right, I will try to vote more and use more of the points (not just 4-10). I ussually did not rate 10(only happened twice so far and, yes, I am guilty, one was a sunset, but it was not a sunset shot, it was more than that, DJ!). As per comments, I think it is nice and normal to comment on a shot when u vote. Maybe that is why I do not have the time to vote all the shots. Cheers! |
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11/23/2006 09:57:55 AM · #43 |
| You're welcome. I look forward to seeing more of you work! Welcome to the DPC community. |
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11/23/2006 10:01:41 AM · #44 |
Originally posted by DIVIAN:
I am sick of tacky sunsets and colourful silly flowers... |
You mean like this?
I hear the statement above most every week here if not every day. My colorful silly flower made 37 out of over 600. That's better than a ribbon out of 125 for me. LOL Welcome to DPC.
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11/23/2006 10:16:04 AM · #45 |
| no fir3bird, i am not that narrow minded to despise everything floral. It is not a "silly" shot, it has something more besides just being colourful. I like the leaf, the drops, the DOF, the background (not crazy about the center positionong, maybe a larger POW and a different cropping wound have been better, with a special accent on the diagonal leaf). So it is not a bad shot. From now on, I will start my voting from 1. I would not rate this 1, however, I would not have rated it more than 6. Congrats for the 37th spot! |
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11/23/2006 10:58:39 AM · #46 |
I do agree that there is a great deal of flowers and sunsets here. People really love them, however. For me I am at a disadvantage because the vistas in my area are far from wow style. Still, I do many sunsets and sunrises as I try to perfect the sense of it, because one day I will find myself on a beach in Hawaii at sunset, and I hope I have enough sense for photography due to practice, that I won't mess it up.
The whole fascination with this site and the contests is the pursuit of the perfect picture. I hope one day I will find my perfect picture. In the meantime, practice does make nearly perfect.
Originally posted by DIVIAN:
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I am sick of tacky sunsets and colourful silly flowers... |
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11/23/2006 11:12:16 AM · #47 |
I see it like this. DPC is trendy. When I first started here Wine Glasses were the big thing. You would see 10 - 15 of them in a challenge. Then they started to get boring to the voters and stopped appearing as often. Right now the current trend seems to be in the heavy processing. Once that has been exhausted who knows. Perhaps traditional photography will get a turn on the trend wheel.
Definately try not to let the voting on this site get to you. It is hard at times because some people do vote with their eyes crossed and minds closed. But a great many do study the photos closely.
The other thing you have to keep in mind. Not everyone on this site lives in a location that has a million photogenic subjects around. Some live in rural areas where sunsets and flowers are the only good subjects available.
Like Mak says take it on the chin and keep on going. If you are as good as you say you are, You'll do just fine here.
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11/23/2006 11:24:37 AM · #48 |
I have been on other sites where people vote on only the pictures you like. The problem is, the only people who get feedback are the people who really don't need it as much. Its those people who new and who are learning who really need the feedback so they can learn. I agree with the idea of not voting on images that contain subjects that aren't of interest to you because you won't be able to provide constructive feedback. Then again, like everyone else on this site, I like to receive votes so I make sure I do my best to vote on all the challenge submissions and if I don't I just hammer through as many as I can and give them an honest appraisal.
Usually 1 and 2's are reserved for DNMC. (1 where its an ok shot but doesn't meet the challenge, 2 where its a good shot but has nothing to do with the challenge).
9's and 10's? I usually give out 4 or 5 per challenge and only to those one's I think deserve to win the challenge.
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11/23/2006 11:52:22 AM · #49 |
Originally posted by DIVIAN:
...I do not really understand why some ppl give 1 in their notes. What I mean is I think there are enough shots in a challenge to vote for the best 20%. I never gave a vote less than 5, why give some1 a 1 when u can appreciate other shots? If it is that bad it should not even b worth mentioning, right?... |
I think it more useful to vote according to fact and perception than according to some social conformism of nicety.
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11/23/2006 11:56:48 AM · #50 |
Uh oh, hope he doesn't see an of my pics. I kinda like the sunsets :) I take pictures of whatever I like given that moment of time, same with post-processing. But when it comes to challenges, I've learnt quickly that I'm not taking this picture for me, but for the voters. I have to proove to them that the quality incorporates various skills, be original and meets the criteria.
IRT your image, the same comments you give below for the flower (DOF, Background, POW, etc.) are items that you can improve on in your own entry. I honestly thought for a split second that your picture was done using a scanner (clearly it isn't after viewing for a split second longer). That and the focus being on the humor created by the post office in error (shifting the viewers focus away from the hat) would make me score it a 2 or 3 probably. It's not that I don't think the image is funny, but I do use the full range of scores available to a voter (1 for clear DNMC's).
IMHO, you should also vote on ALL images so that your voting style is applied equally to all entries, thus making it more fair.
Good luck on the site, voters are definitely tough love :)
Message edited by author 2006-11-23 11:58:29. |
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