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DPChallenge Forums >> Administrator Announcements >> Introducing the New Rules
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11/05/2006 06:46:01 PM · #1
As announced on Thursday, the new rules have reached a releasable state. I will now unveil the highly-anticipated, muchly-debated, and hugely-delayed new Basic, Advanced, and Voting rule sets for your viewing pleasure.

Basic Editing (Nov 6th)
Advanced Editing
Voting Guidelines

These rules (barring any obvious flaws) will be in effect, as written, for all challenges that begin between November 6th and November 29th. Should we find that these new revisions are successful, we will continue to use them into the month of December and the New Year. Should we find that the rules need further revision, we will revise them as such during the month of November and try out the new modifications during December.

As previous stated by ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/user_id/17203.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/user_id/17203.gif', '/') + 1) . ' scalvert, here is a brief run down of changes:

Originally posted by scalvert:

From a practical standpoint, what's allowed isn't all that different from the current rules. Among the key changes...

You'll be allowed to remove sensor dust and hot pixels in Basic! Don't try to clone out anything else though. ;-)

The Literal Artwork rules will be significantly relaxed. If the voters can TELL it's artwork, the entry will be legal and you'll be at the mercy of the voters.

The term "Major Elements" is completely gone. Instead, we'll focus on allowing touchup or removal of minor imperfections. You can use filters, but adding new features like motion blur or textures where none existed before isn't allowed.

The rules will be in a new format that should be both shorter and easier to understand. We're aiming for better clarity here rather than big changes.


Please go easy on us.

Edit: The old rules have been renamed "Advanced Editing IV" and "Basic Editing III" for archival purposes.

Message edited by author 2006-11-05 18:46:58.
11/05/2006 06:47:13 PM · #2
OOh early release! Sweet! :)
11/05/2006 06:58:06 PM · #3
They look good - nice and simple.

One question, whats the definition of a new 'feature' - that feels very open to interpretation/misinterpretation and possibly reinterpretation over time.

Oooh - one other question - how would the extreme crops and resizing be covered by these rules. The crops down to 6x4 pixels and then resize to 640px. It sounds as though these are now legal
11/05/2006 07:01:57 PM · #4
Originally posted by Falc:

One question, whats the definition of a new 'feature' - that feels very open to interpretation/misinterpretation and possibly reinterpretation over time.

I think that's covered by:
You must not ... use ANY editing tool to move, remove or duplicate any element of your photograph that would change a typical viewer’s description of the photograph (aside from color or crop), even if the tool is otherwise legal, and regardless of whether you intended the change when the photograph was taken.

Originally posted by Falc:

Oooh - one other question - how would the extreme crops and resizing be covered by these rules. The crops down to 6x4 pixels and then resize to 640px. It sounds as though these are now legal

Again, I think that's covered by the above.
11/05/2006 07:03:47 PM · #5
one capture - includes multiple exposures or overlays done in camera ?
11/05/2006 07:06:25 PM · #6
Originally posted by "advanced editing":

use ANY editing tool to move, remove or duplicate any element of your photograph that would change a typical viewer’s description of the photograph (aside from color or crop), even if the tool is otherwise legal, and regardless of whether you intended the change when the photograph was taken.


Would removal of fishing lines and prop supports be now illegal?
Specifically
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/541/thumb/383052.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/541/thumb/383052.jpg', '/') + 1) . ' and ' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/378/thumb/233039.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/378/thumb/233039.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

PS: I have nothing against the two photographs above, I think they're fantastic, just want to understand what "typical viewer's description" entails.

11/05/2006 07:06:34 PM · #7
Originally posted by ralph:

one capture - includes multiple exposures or overlays done in camera ?

Under the "you may" section:
use any feature of your camera while photographing your entry
11/05/2006 07:08:41 PM · #8
Originally posted by Melethia:

Originally posted by ralph:

one capture - includes multiple exposures or overlays done in camera ?

Under the "you may" section:
use any feature of your camera while photographing your entry
conflicting with "one capture"
11/05/2006 07:10:01 PM · #9
Originally posted by ralph:

Originally posted by Melethia:

Originally posted by ralph:

one capture - includes multiple exposures or overlays done in camera ?

Under the "you may" section:
use any feature of your camera while photographing your entry
conflicting with "one capture"


i think the feature that makes one raw file would be ok but combining several would not be maybe.
11/05/2006 07:10:06 PM · #10
Originally posted by Manic:


I think that's covered by:
You must not ... use ANY editing tool to move, remove or duplicate any element of your photograph that would change a typical viewer’s description of the photograph (aside from color or crop), even if the tool is otherwise legal, and regardless of whether you intended the change when the photograph was taken.


Hmmm - gonna be some interesting bordelines there. Basically its down to SC interpretation again. I understand whay you have worded it that way, but it puts the burden right back with you guys again.

All in all I see these as - 'business as usual' but enforcing that 'feature' rule is going to be tough.
11/05/2006 07:13:54 PM · #11
Way to go Langdon! They look good, certainly clear up the big issues.
11/05/2006 07:13:59 PM · #12
Yes! Removal of those dust bunnies in basic.
11/05/2006 07:15:26 PM · #13
Thank you :)
11/05/2006 07:17:52 PM · #14
Yeah they sound aiight
11/05/2006 07:18:30 PM · #15
Originally posted by Nitin:



Would removal of fishing lines and prop supports be now illegal?


I don't se why these would be illegal under these new rules - nothing of any significance has gone
11/05/2006 07:22:37 PM · #16
Originally posted by Falc:

Originally posted by Nitin:

Would removal of fishing lines and prop supports be now illegal?
I don't se why these would be illegal under these new rules - nothing of any significance has gone
That's why its not a 'major element' rule anymore. Its a 'typical viewers description', and that does change: "photo of a child suspended from the ceiling" vs "photo of a child levitating in the air, with another wondering".
11/05/2006 07:23:17 PM · #17
Originally posted by ralph:

Originally posted by Melethia:

Originally posted by ralph:

one capture - includes multiple exposures or overlays done in camera ?

Under the "you may" section:
use any feature of your camera while photographing your entry
conflicting with "one capture"


You must:
create your entry from a single capture.


You may:
use any feature of your camera while photographing your entry.


Yeah, the two seem to be in conflict with each other especially when one is listed under what you MUST do while the other is optional. However, if they were not going to allow multiple exposures they would have listed that as one of the highlighted changes with this revision.

ETA: Great job with the revision. I love how it's so much easier to parse. That alone is a major improvement.

Message edited by author 2006-11-05 19:25:04.
11/05/2006 07:26:27 PM · #18
Btw, where's the Larus/DrAchoo/Kiwiness Rule? You know the one that says "you can't ribbon more than once per week". :P
11/05/2006 07:26:35 PM · #19
Originally posted by Nitin:

Originally posted by Falc:

Originally posted by Nitin:

Would removal of fishing lines and prop supports be now illegal?
I don't se why these would be illegal under these new rules - nothing of any significance has gone
That's why its not a 'major element' rule anymore. Its a 'typical viewers description', and that does change: "photo of a child suspended from the ceiling" vs "photo of a child levitating in the air, with another wondering".


Yep I get you - the viewers description will change - ILLEGAL ;-)
Shhhesh this is going to be more difficult than I thought

11/05/2006 08:00:39 PM · #20
Originally posted by Nitin:

Would removal of fishing lines and prop supports be now illegal?


In both cases, the supports were barely visible, so the appearance of levitation didn't change.
11/05/2006 08:07:28 PM · #21
Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by Nitin:

Would removal of fishing lines and prop supports be now illegal?


In both cases, the supports were barely visible, so the appearance of levitation didn't change.


I have not seen those originals but i can say to anyone that has not tried anything like that before that if done right the wires or fishing line is barely visible. most viewers would not notice them without studying and therefore would not mention it in their description. at least in my experience
11/05/2006 08:07:40 PM · #22
Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by Nitin:

Would removal of fishing lines and prop supports be now illegal?


In both cases, the supports were barely visible, so the appearance of levitation didn't change.


So if I wanted to pull off your levitation image with a fat kid I'd get dq'd?

:P
11/05/2006 08:10:03 PM · #23
They look good to me. I don't know how to do most of what's not allowed anyway.

One small thing:
In the Voting Guidlines, under "You should," it would help to provide a link to the "The DQ Process – A Voter’s Guide" we're supposed to read.
11/05/2006 08:17:44 PM · #24
Originally posted by dudephil:

So if I wanted to pull off your levitation image with a fat kid I'd get dq'd?


Well, the bicycle seat in Light Reading was supported with four braided 80lb test saltwater fishing lines, so it would probably handle a pretty hefty kid. If you used heavy chains, then yeah, you'd be DQ'd. ;-)
11/05/2006 08:20:30 PM · #25
Shannon, can you and other SC basically tell us if there has been a quantum change in the cloning rules? I know the description has been cleaned up, but I'm a little in the dark as to whether this means there is far less than you can clone out or not?

An example may be small buildings in the background of a landscape. (of course what's small in my mind may be big in someone elses). Anyway, I do think before this would have easily flown, but now I'm not sure that small buildings count the same as "stray hairs" or "incidental power lines".

Let me actually post an example. (It's not buildings though).

Here is the finished product for the Burst of Color challenge from January:
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/432/thumb/277275.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/432/thumb/277275.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

Here is a less processed shot without the cloning. Note specifically:
a) the car in the background
b) the sandwich board sign in the foreground
c) the highlights on the right on the brick wall.
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/40718/thumb/423222.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/40718/thumb/423222.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

My question, would this fly now? I thought I was safely on the side of ok when I entered this, although I was "getting there" on that fine line. Now, I don't know with the current rules.

I know it's still opinion, but I'd like to hear some opinions...
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