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11/01/2006 01:56:37 PM · #51
Ok...here's MY take on this....
I tried beating THIS dead horse a couple of weeks ago and I have come to the conclusion that overprocessing is here to stay.
Years ago, I visited a friend of mine who is into many things, one of them at the moment is Graphic Design, although he's been an artist (painter) for many decades. I was looking around his gallery and came across a beautiful painting of a red barn with fall leaves in the background. Nice enough. I commented on what a nice painting it was and he said, "Look closer, it's a photograph." I looked closer and from what I could tell, it WAS a photograph, only it had been photoshopped AND he had added acrylic paint to it, so it BECAME an artists rendering. I got very angry and told him that THAT wasn't real art. (Taking a photo and adding a watercolor filter and then applying paint)
His reply was this, "If we were still writing and drawing on cave walls, then we would have never progressed to where we are today." That little piece of information has stuck with me and I have tried to keep photos and artist's renderings separate, but now, with filters and adjustments galore, I'm afraid it's here to stay.
Just my added 2¢. I tried to add my other 2¢ a while ago, but got shot down on this very subject. So Tony Soprano and I both say "What can ya do?"
11/01/2006 01:56:48 PM · #52
Originally posted by ursula:



I don't know if I agree or not. It's true that I was thinking along the same lines, stuff looks a bit heavy handed lately, a bit more than a bit at times, and oversaturated, and oversharpened. But I'm thinking that's not a new thing. I think, sometimes, that nowadays I notice things I wouldn't have noticed in the past. And then I wonder if that's good or bad. Oh well.


Man, THAT cleared things up! ;-)
11/01/2006 01:58:17 PM · #53
Originally posted by scarbrd:

Originally posted by ursula:



I don't know if I agree or not. It's true that I was thinking along the same lines, stuff looks a bit heavy handed lately, a bit more than a bit at times, and oversaturated, and oversharpened. But I'm thinking that's not a new thing. I think, sometimes, that nowadays I notice things I wouldn't have noticed in the past. And then I wonder if that's good or bad. Oh well.


Man, THAT cleared things up! ;-)


Well, yeah, I'm good at clearing things up :))))

NOT!!!!

Message edited by author 2006-11-01 14:01:44.
11/01/2006 02:39:05 PM · #54
These threads tend to focus on the wrong things. Overprocessing is not the issue here but rather the DPC template in general. The heavy processing as Gordon mention works well to attract voters but unless you have a DPC approved subject to begin with the processing isn't going to help much.

I wish some of my less edited photos did better but unfortunately only my most heavy handed ones do well. No shock that my more heavily edited Free Study entry is out scoring my Portrait in Landscape entry by a lot. As photographs I like them both equally but naturally the one with the more candy is attracting better votes and the other one is already starting to get "nitpicked", which is why it's hard to buck the trend. Nobody seems to care about all the faults of your image if it's one of those countless clear/smooth landscapes or of beautiful women (that's not a self portrait) for example and they are also less likely to notice your faults if you blind them with lots of color and sharp details hence why people do it. Would be nice if the editing had more purpose than that but so is life.

Message edited by author 2006-11-01 14:43:30.
11/01/2006 02:44:50 PM · #55
Not an old timer but to be honest If if could be done in a dark room I couldn't care less. I do not think I over process. I am often very impressed and envious, haha of those that do it well.
11/01/2006 02:46:01 PM · #56
Originally posted by yanko:

These threads tend to focus on the wrong things. Overprocessing is not the issue here but rather the DPC template in general. The heavy processing as Gordon mention works well to attract voters but unless you have a DPC approved subject to begin with the processing isn't going to help much.

I wish some of my less edited photos did better but unfortunately only my most heavy handed ones do well. No shock that my more heavily edited Free Study entry is out scoring my Portrait in Landscape entry by a lot. As photographs I like them both equally but naturally the one with the more candy is attracting better votes and the other one is already starting to get "nitpicked", which is why it's hard to buck the trend. Nobody seems to care about all the faults of your image if it's one of those countless clear/smooth landscapes or of beautiful women (that's not a self portrait) for example and they are also less likely to notice your faults if you blind them with lots of color and sharp details hence why people do it. Would be nice if the editing had more purpose than that but so is life.


Yeah, that's well said.
11/01/2006 02:50:39 PM · #57
Originally posted by yanko:

Nobody seems to care about all the faults of your image if it's one of those countless clear/smooth landscapes or of beautiful women (that's not a self portrait) for example and they are also less likely to notice your faults if you blind them with lots of color and sharp details hence why people do it.


Maybe people vote those high because they either like them, or the aspire to be able to take images like them...

Message edited by author 2006-11-01 14:50:50.
11/01/2006 02:58:08 PM · #58
Ansel Adams' images would likely be considered "overprocessed" though he was so good at it, the viewer is often convinced that what you see in his print is exactly how the scene looked at the time of exposure.

I think it's poor processing and not really "overprocessing" that kills images.
11/01/2006 03:04:33 PM · #59
Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by pawdrix:

I see more seriously overstaurated images these days in Challenges than I ever did before.


2002
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/46/thumb/9482.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/46/thumb/9482.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

2003
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/126/thumb/33045.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/126/thumb/33045.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

2004
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/254/thumb/106707.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/254/thumb/106707.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

2005
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/361/thumb/208619.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/361/thumb/208619.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

Overprocessing (or the appearance of it) is neither new nor necessarily undesirable.


But you're parading images that work. These images especially Bobs and Heida's suit the choices they made as does Rakats(sp?). I see a very clear difference there from the gratuitous oversaturating that's been creeping in moreso than before. I hope we're smart enough not to interpret this conversation as a black and white deal.

These images don not fall into the discussion. It's easy to pull out exceptions but and there are literally hundreds of great images that are seriuosly enhanced. I assume people are speaking of the images where it doesn't work, especially those the win ribbons. I will not pull those out because I don't wish to slight anyone.

For the record I don't see it as the downfall of DPC or anything like that, just drift that I've noticed that doesn't suit my taste as a viewer, a voter or a competitor. It's just my opinion but I don't like it and I don't like looking at landscapes, to be more specific which are oversaturated and oversharpened. I don't dig them.

I know, I know...some of them do work.

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/391/thumb/245015.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/391/thumb/245015.jpg', '/') + 1) . ' ...but who am I to talk? LOLOLOL

All for now.

Message edited by author 2006-11-01 15:07:46.
11/01/2006 03:07:29 PM · #60
Originally posted by pawdrix:

... images where it doesn't work, especially those the win ribbons.


This strikes me as an oxymoron. If it didn't work, they wouldn't be rated high enough to win a ribbon.
11/01/2006 03:13:20 PM · #61
Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by pawdrix:

... images where it doesn't work, especially those the win ribbons.


This strikes me as an oxymoron. If it didn't work, they wouldn't be rated high enough to win a ribbon.


A lot of your ribbons show that it doesn't take a lot of PP to win ribbons here. Ofcoure your images have a LOT of pre-snap prep work to them.
11/01/2006 03:19:40 PM · #62
Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by pawdrix:

... images where it doesn't work, especially those the win ribbons.


This strikes me as an oxymoron. If it didn't work, they wouldn't be rated high enough to win a ribbon.


Are we equating Ribbons and voting with quality?

We are looking at different criteria here. I rarely agree with the voters so we might be at an impass.

Challenges are Challenges and then there's the rest of the world. It's all good of course and I'm not trying to put it down. Personally I find Challenge shooting and voting leans more towards the commercial than it does the artistic. Almost everyone of my favorite images in the world would get creamed in a Challenge.

There are many winners that were quite artistic and less commercial more exception than rule.
11/01/2006 03:22:24 PM · #63
Frankly it could be the exact opposite. The "old" photos that did well without much processing could have done well because there was weak competition. Nobody was processing a lot. Langdon, I'm sure knows, and I'm not busting him, that his pool cue shot would hardly rate a 6.0 today compared to a 8+ that it earned then.

So perhaps the processing is an effect of evolution to better and better things. The OP's argument, taken further, makes no sense. Are you saying that in another 2 years the processing will be so totally beyond the pale that they will be unrecognizable as photos? I don't think so.

Message edited by author 2006-11-01 15:23:01.
11/01/2006 03:27:21 PM · #64
Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Frankly it could be the exact opposite. The "old" photos that did well without much processing could have done well because there was weak competition. Nobody was processing a lot. Langdon, I'm sure knows, and I'm not busting him, that his pool cue shot would hardly rate a 6.0 today compared to a 8+ that it earned then.

So perhaps the processing is an effect of evolution to better and better things. The OP's argument, taken further, makes no sense. Are you saying that in another 2 years the processing will be so totally beyond the pale that they will be unrecognizable as photos? I don't think so.


well some of my straight from the camera stuff is barely recognizable as photos already:P
11/01/2006 03:27:57 PM · #65
guess my images are just... Overly Overprocessed from the comments I have gotten....

bummer
11/01/2006 03:34:55 PM · #66
When I was a photojournalist, i was one of the first to use auto-focus at sporting assignments. A lot of collegues felt that focusing on a fast moving object was part of the required skill set and somehow I was cheating.

Today EVERY pro sports photographer I know uses auto-focus.

Times change

Message edited by author 2006-11-01 15:36:36.
11/01/2006 03:39:07 PM · #67
I still haven’t figured it out for myself... sometimes I like the over-processed look when I'm voting, sometimes I don't... I think maybe it just works well for some images and not well for others?... Even in my own photos I like to play... I have 3 images in challenges this week and two of them are currently scoring in the 6 range (yay, first time over a 5 for me!). Anyway, one of them is very processed- I did a lot of work on it in Photoshop, and the other is barely processed at all- a slight rotation/slight crop and a minor levels adjustment… so it seems there is a big group of people on both sides of the fence. *shrug*

edited a few typos...

Message edited by author 2006-11-01 15:40:30.
11/01/2006 03:39:50 PM · #68
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by pawdrix:

... images where it doesn't work, especially those the win ribbons.


This strikes me as an oxymoron. If it didn't work, they wouldn't be rated high enough to win a ribbon.


A lot of your ribbons show that it doesn't take a lot of PP to win ribbons here. Ofcoure your images have a LOT of pre-snap prep work to them.


I've only won one meager Ribbon and I COMPLETELY pandered to what was popular or to what I thought DPCers were into. I do like that image and I feel that it works, it also helped me find a style of processing and look that I enjoy.

I don't like way oversaturated skies or landscapes and that was what I was refering to btw. I'm refering to nuclear PP coloring to be exact.
11/01/2006 03:44:08 PM · #69
If your photo is technically good, but doesn't evoke some kind of emotion with the viewers, it will not score well. I think that when people are disappointed that voters are not commenting enough on their photo, it's because there is really NO emotional tie to that photo. It is very difficult to discuss something that isn't that interesting to look at.

The source of the emotional response I get from pictures is from a combination of composition, lighting, and even the title. Post-processing can be a very effective way to enhance all of the above.
11/01/2006 03:45:34 PM · #70
Outstanding photographer ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_F.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_F.gif', '/') + 1) . ' goodman - 15 Ribbons, 8 Honorable Mentions

Recent entry in Trains & Railroads. It came in 42nd.

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/572/thumb/414281.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/572/thumb/414281.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

The extreme PP button sometimes works, sometimes doesn't.

edit to add, an interesting study in trends...look at lesley's work for all of 2004, then see what happens in mid 2005 continuing to present.

Message edited by author 2006-11-01 15:50:47.
11/01/2006 03:50:34 PM · #71
Originally posted by Gordon:

Originally posted by yanko:

Nobody seems to care about all the faults of your image if it's one of those countless clear/smooth landscapes or of beautiful women (that's not a self portrait) for example and they are also less likely to notice your faults if you blind them with lots of color and sharp details hence why people do it.


Maybe people vote those high because they either like them, or the aspire to be able to take images like them...


Or it's just idol worshipping. It was already mentioned earlier that DPC since it became popular has been a site that favors the "overprocessed" images. The ones that have more content to them, the ones that make you think tend to be less desireable unless they are pretty in some way. The recent rant about American flags in the challenges is just another illustration of the notion that people don't want to be confronted with reality or ideals since we prefer to live in fantasy worlds sipping multi-colored margaritas handed to you by faeries overlooking majestic vistas with dolphins swimming in the sky.
11/01/2006 03:52:02 PM · #72
Originally posted by yanko:

we prefer to live in fantasy worlds sipping multi-colored margaritas handed to you by faeries overlooking majestic vistas with dolphins swimming in the sky.


Where do I sign up for that?

:-P
11/01/2006 03:56:27 PM · #73
if you don't like overprocessing, stick to viewing, voting on, and submitting to Basic Editing challenges. photography as an artform has evolved into more than just "what you see (and photograph) is what you get".

my $.02
11/01/2006 03:58:26 PM · #74
Originally posted by glad2badad:

Outstanding photographer ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_F.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_F.gif', '/') + 1) . ' goodman - 15 Ribbons, 8 Honorable Mentions

Recent entry in Trains & Railroads. It came in 42nd.

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/572/thumb/414281.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/572/thumb/414281.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

The extreme PP button sometimes works, sometimes doesn't.

edit to add, an interesting study in trends...look at lesley's work for all of 2004, then see what happens in mid 2005 continuing to present.


You could look at that two ways. I think her editing made that into a 6+ scoring shot although a bit too "dirty grunge" to do much better.
11/01/2006 04:04:56 PM · #75
Originally posted by lil_mo:

I still haven’t figured it out for myself... sometimes I like the over-processed look when I'm voting, sometimes I don't... I think maybe it just works well for some images and not well for others?... Even in my own photos I like to play... I have 3 images in challenges this week and two of them are currently scoring in the 6 range (yay, first time over a 5 for me!). Anyway, one of them is very processed- I did a lot of work on it in Photoshop, and the other is barely processed at all- a slight rotation/slight crop and a minor levels adjustment… so it seems there is a big group of people on both sides of the fence. *shrug*

edited a few typos...


WOO, go Mo go!!!
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