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11/03/2006 05:00:43 PM · #126 |
Originally posted by brownsm:
Darn trolls! Just got hit with a 2!! This on an image that's averaging 7.xxxx. i don't understand this behavior. I was hoping for a PB, and this one just knocked me down a lot. At least if there were a comment along with the vote, so I could get some rationale. |
As time goes on you will find that this is a very generic group with wide ranging tastes. Look at your score distribution and you will normally see a nice bell curve that covers the entire range of scores no matter how good your picture.
There are no trolls.
Message edited by author 2006-11-03 17:02:00.
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11/03/2006 05:06:30 PM · #127 |
Originally posted by stdavidson:
Originally posted by brownsm:
Darn trolls! Just got hit with a 2!! This on an image that's averaging 7.xxxx. i don't understand this behavior. I was hoping for a PB, and this one just knocked me down a lot. At least if there were a comment along with the vote, so I could get some rationale. |
As time goes on you will find that this is a very generic group with wide ranging tastes. Look at your score distribution and you will normally see a nice bell curve that covers the entire range of scores no matter how good your picture. There are no trolls. |
The part that upsets me is not the 2 (although that does hit the average quite hard). It's not having a comment along with it. I'm very interested in hearing what an individual doesn't like about a particular image. Not so i can change it next time to increase my average, but to help understand another point of view. In this case, this vote was statistically an outlier, and that means (to me at least) that it's a result of either vindictive or malicious voting, or a much different perspective. I would have loved to have gotten a comment!! The same holds true when I get a vote of 10, when the average is much lower. There's something that person especially liked, even though the general population doesn't. I would like to experience and understand that diversity. |
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11/03/2006 05:14:01 PM · #128 |
Originally posted by Ivo:
I'm thinkin the troll may just be using extreme votes for a marker. Just as fast as I dropped by being hit with a troll, I popped back up again. |
Based on my score, that marker is at best a 4 (pretty crappy marker IMO). But my score has bounced back to a 5 thannks to whatever kind voter came along after them. So, if it's a marker, then hopefully they too will come back to improve it.
Votes: 139
Views: 171
Avg Vote: 5.0000
Comments: 7
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11/03/2006 05:15:39 PM · #129 |
Originally posted by stdavidson:
There are no trolls. |
What do you call someone whose average score given is in the 3's? I understand getting off to a rough start as I was in that boat, but I saw a profile today with someone having given over 600+ votes and an average score given of 3.7 (ouch).
Message edited by author 2006-11-03 17:15:56.
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11/03/2006 05:20:00 PM · #130 |
Originally posted by brownsm:
The part that upsets me is not the 2 (although that does hit the average quite hard). It's not having a comment along with it. I'm very interested in hearing what an individual doesn't like about a particular image. |
While I agree with you that I want to know why I got a bad score, I also have to remind myself, do I REALLY want to see that comment. I do to know what mindset they had when they voted, but I don't if it seems so 'off-the-wall' or far-fetched that I feel the low score was completely unjust. It can easily cause resentment towards a user and that may be why they don't want to post. They don't want the fallout of a PM telling them why there were wrong.
I'd like a comment with every vote, but I know I'm not going to get it and I can understand why some hide behind the "drive-by" score.
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11/03/2006 05:21:50 PM · #131 |
I DO belive in trolls, I DO believe in trolls ...
(j/k) |
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11/03/2006 05:24:42 PM · #132 |
Originally posted by MaryO:
I DO belive in trolls, I DO believe in trolls ...
(j/k) |
If that's the culprit responsible for today, let the dog have 'em! ;-)
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11/03/2006 05:25:20 PM · #133 |
Originally posted by brownsm:
The part that upsets me is not the 2 (although that does hit the average quite hard). It's not having a comment along with it. I'm very interested in hearing what an individual doesn't like about a particular image... |
The flaw in your thinking is the assumption their reason for giving your image a low score actually makes sense. If it is out of the mainstream it likely doesn't make sense and is practically useless as a tool for improving your photography.
What matters are comments made by people that give your image a 5. That means they see both good and bad and necessarily have a better balanced viewpoint of your image. Their suggestions for weakness are more likely to be meaningful.
Message edited by author 2006-11-03 17:25:48.
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11/03/2006 05:35:14 PM · #134 |
Originally posted by dallasdux:
Originally posted by brownsm:
Darn trolls! Just got hit with a 2!! This on an image that's averaging 7.xxxx. i don't understand this behavior. I was hoping for a PB, and this one just knocked me down a lot. At least if there were a comment along with the vote, so I could get some rationale. |
Ouch, that IS rough. Obviously if you have a 7+ you are doing great. Congrats. It is extremely frustrating when someone comes through to do nothing more than be a Troll :-( |
100 votes average 7.5 = 750 points
add a 2 to that, get 752 points
752/101 = 7.4455
The more votes you have, the less difference each vote makes. In other words, if you are talking 140 to 141 votes, the difference is less (I'm at 148 votes right now). So if you found your score "knocked down a lot" after one vote, it must mean other votes were changed at the same time. Unless you think 7.5 to 7.4455 is "a lot"?
R. |
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11/03/2006 05:40:09 PM · #135 |
Originally posted by stdavidson:
Originally posted by brownsm:
The part that upsets me is not the 2 (although that does hit the average quite hard). It's not having a comment along with it. I'm very interested in hearing what an individual doesn't like about a particular image... |
The flaw in your thinking is the assumption their reason for giving your image a low score actually makes sense. If it is out of the mainstream it likely doesn't make sense and is practically useless as a tool for improving your photography.
What matters are comments made by people that give your image a 5. That means they see both good and bad and necessarily have a better balanced viewpoint of your image. Their suggestions for weakness are more likely to be meaningful. |
You're right. i am making assumptions. The major one being that to that commenter, their reason makes sense. it might not make sense to me or you, but it does to them. When I look at a photo, I want to have a gut reaction to it. That reaction could be either "beautiful" or "disgusting" or "controversial" or whatever. I'm not really interesting in hearing comments of "the focus is off" or "it doesn't follow the rule of thirds". To me, those are mechanical, technical aspects that most photographers can see. I want people to comment on what emotions they feel (if any) when they see the photo. A vote of 1 or 2 must have struck a chord in that person (again an assumption that the photo is technically sound). If the comment is "I don't pictures of trees", then fine, I can't please every one. But I might not take as many pictures of trees, and I might use that as an incentive to explore something else. If the comment is "that picture reminded me of my dead grandmother, and I don't like to be reminded of that", then that's a valuable comment, despite the low score. I got to hear the expression of the emotion.
Oh well, I've gotten over my bad thoughts, and have found the discussion enjoyable. Thanks for taking the time to comment. |
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11/03/2006 05:45:56 PM · #136 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by dallasdux:
Originally posted by brownsm:
Darn trolls! Just got hit with a 2!! This on an image that's averaging 7.xxxx. i don't understand this behavior. I was hoping for a PB, and this one just knocked me down a lot. At least if there were a comment along with the vote, so I could get some rationale. |
Ouch, that IS rough. Obviously if you have a 7+ you are doing great. Congrats. It is extremely frustrating when someone comes through to do nothing more than be a Troll :-( |
100 votes average 7.5 = 750 points
add a 2 to that, get 752 points
752/101 = 7.4455
The more votes you have, the less difference each vote makes. In other words, if you are talking 140 to 141 votes, the difference is less (I'm at 148 votes right now). So if you found your score "knocked down a lot" after one vote, it must mean other votes were changed at the same time. Unless you think 7.5 to 7.4455 is "a lot"?
R. |
Robert, you are indeed correct. That is almost exactly the amount that it dropped. Poor choice of adjective on my part. But, starting with your same scenario, it would take 5 votes of 9 to make up the difference. mathematically, it is just easier to knock averages down rather than make them go up. it could take all day to go up that much. I know i shouldn't complain if the average is that high anyway. But as I said in another post, it's the lack of comment along with that vote that gets me more upset. |
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11/03/2006 06:02:40 PM · #137 |
Originally posted by brownsm:
You're right. i am making assumptions. The major one being that to that commenter, their reason makes sense. it might not make sense to me or you, but it does to them. When I look at a photo, I want to have a gut reaction to it. That reaction could be either "beautiful" or "disgusting" or "controversial" or whatever. I'm not really interesting in hearing comments of "the focus is off" or "it doesn't follow the rule of thirds". To me, those are mechanical, technical aspects that most photographers can see. I want people to comment on what emotions they feel (if any) when they see the photo. A vote of 1 or 2 must have struck a chord in that person (again an assumption that the photo is technically sound). If the comment is "I don't pictures of trees", then fine, I can't please every one. But I might not take as many pictures of trees, and I might use that as an incentive to explore something else. If the comment is "that picture reminded me of my dead grandmother, and I don't like to be reminded of that", then that's a valuable comment, despite the low score. I got to hear the expression of the emotion. |
(snipped for brevity)
Are you really sure all photographers can see the technical flaws in their photos? I can't always in mine. Someone may think my photo is butt ugly and repulsive and whatever else, or they may think I should have known better than to (insert technical flaw here). I do love to get comments but am probably more pleased with the technical ones, positive or negative. Maybe 'cuz I'm new here? |
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11/03/2006 07:32:15 PM · #138 |
I'm looking at a PB here (2nd week in a row!).
But what thrills me more than my score is the fact that I got nice comments from  Goodman and Jutilda.
Votes: 149
Views: 187
Avg Vote: 6.4698
Comments: 8 |
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11/03/2006 07:42:59 PM · #139 |
Originally posted by lynnmarie:
I'm looking at a PB here (2nd week in a row!).
But what thrills me more than my score is the fact that I got nice comments from Goodman and Jutilda.
Votes: 149
Views: 187
Avg Vote: 6.4698
Comments: 8 |
Those are a couple of great endorsements, all right. Best wishes for a PB on top of that.
Message edited by author 2006-11-03 19:43:27.
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11/03/2006 07:44:31 PM · #140 |
Originally posted by stdavidson:
Best wishes for a PB on top of that. |
Thanks! |
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11/03/2006 07:59:04 PM · #141 |
O.K...bringing it back to reality again, as I ran out of popcorn dang it anyway :-) Not to bad for a random shot posted at the last minute I suppose :-)
Good luck everyone...
Votes: 144
Views: 168
Avg Vote: 5.3264
Comments: 4
Favorites: 0
Wish Lists: 0
Updated: 11/03/06 07:51 pm
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11/03/2006 09:31:27 PM · #142 |
Just finished voting: Landscape in Portrait Orientation
Congrats to all who entered. (I got DQ for being dumb)
There are some wonderful, fantastic shots in this challenge. Amazing skies, views and colors. Impressive group of images. Wow
Off to vote the Portrait in Landscape Orientation group.
I originally posted this is the wrong thread. DUH.
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11/03/2006 10:07:38 PM · #143 |
Speaking of flaws, my image had a compositional point left in it which I liked, so I did not clone it out. The comments indicate that the voters find it distracting. It was a conscious decision on my part to leave it in. Next time I take a shot where some may find an element distracting, I will remove it. I am losing points because of a conscious decision I made. At least they have told me though that they found the element distracting. That was definitely very helpful to me.
I also like to get comments of "boring" or "just not exciting for me" or "sorry it doesn't really do anything for me." Now, admittedly, not all commenters say that, and you can't please everybody all the time, but I like to here what kind of effect, or non-effect one of my entries has. People, don't be embarrassed or upset or walking on eggs if you really find an image to be ho-hum. Tell us. We will continue to shoot the same subject based on the technical comments made, but it won't help a score if the subject sucked to begin with. |
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11/03/2006 10:15:55 PM · #144 |
Votes: 158
Views: 214
Avg Vote: 5.5127
Comments: 3
Favorites: 0
Wish Lists: 0
Updated: 11/03/06 10:14 pm
bow to me, your emperor of mediocrity |
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11/03/2006 10:19:05 PM · #145 |
Originally posted by MaryO:
Originally posted by brownsm:
To me, those are mechanical, technical aspects that most photographers can see. I want people to comment on what emotions they feel (if any) when they see the photo. |
I do love to get comments but am probably more pleased with the technical ones, positive or negative. Maybe 'cuz I'm new here? |
I'm with you MaryO. Emotionally, my pictures need to speak to Me. Then I hope they have an effect with others. The second part is accomplished based on scores in the challenge, IMO.
What I need are technical reviews. Pictures are very subjective so your scores can vary all over the board even if it is a perfect technical shot. So, until I get to be "perfect" in my technical aspects, those are the comments I am looking for (how to be more technically proficient).
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11/04/2006 01:50:16 AM · #146 |
My score is like a see-saw (will dip down and then rise again) - i think i'm getting extreme votes. But I am glad with my score now - hope it stays this way.
Votes: 161
Views: 226
Avg Vote: 5.2671
Comments: 5
Favorites: 0
Wish Lists: 0
Updated: 11/04/06 01:47 am
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11/04/2006 01:53:14 AM · #147 |
Originally posted by dallasdux:
Originally posted by MaryO:
Originally posted by brownsm:
To me, those are mechanical, technical aspects that most photographers can see. I want people to comment on what emotions they feel (if any) when they see the photo. |
I do love to get comments but am probably more pleased with the technical ones, positive or negative. Maybe 'cuz I'm new here? |
I'm with you MaryO. Emotionally, my pictures need to speak to Me. Then I hope they have an effect with others. The second part is accomplished based on scores in the challenge, IMO.
What I need are technical reviews. Pictures are very subjective so your scores can vary all over the board even if it is a perfect technical shot. So, until I get to be "perfect" in my technical aspects, those are the comments I am looking for (how to be more technically proficient). |
I agree with you dallasdux. It appears that I am very concerned with my score, but truth is, I just want those comments/criticisms on my photo so I'll know how to be a better photographer (technically and emotionally).
Message edited by author 2006-11-04 01:57:21. |
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11/04/2006 11:13:12 AM · #148 |
Originally posted by drwranger7:
I just think it's comical that both my challenge entries have the EXACT same score after 100+ votes! Anyone else ever witness this???
Free Study
Votes: 117
Views: 160
Avg Vote: 5.0000
Comments: 4
Favorites: 0
Wish Lists: 0
Updated: 11/03/06 11:56 am
Landscape in Portrait Orientation
Votes: 119
Views: 146
Avg Vote: 5.0000
Comments: 1
Favorites: 0
Wish Lists: 0
Updated: 11/03/06 11:56 am |
My experience:
Free Study
Votes: 139
Views: 173
Avg Vote: 6.0719
Comments: 5
Favorites: 0
Wish Lists: 0
Updated: 11/04/06 10:43 am
Landscape in Portrait Orientation
Votes: 160
Views: 190
Avg Vote: 6.0563
Comments: 5
Favorites: 0
Wish Lists: 0
Updated: 11/04/06 10:43 am
It is interesting both are scoring similarly. Perhaps that says more about my photography than anything else.
I do believe that the scores given in the Free Study are higher than average. My Free Study entry is not post processed as well as my Landscape entry and that is why it is not doing significantly better. The re-processed Free Study version would have scored higher, I believe. Perhaps I will share that in outtakes.
Both my images are struggling to keep a 6. In the real world those scores would be considered low "D" efforts. DPCers are exceptionally hard to please. :)
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11/04/2006 12:02:18 PM · #149 |
Originally posted by stdavidson:
Both my images are struggling to keep a 6. In the real world those scores would be considered low "D" efforts. DPCers are exceptionally hard to please. :) |
I think I disagree, but I want more info. What would be an "A" etc? In the "real world" average is a "C" and the average, it would seem on dpc is 5.5. So a 6 is more like a C+ or B-. :) |
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11/04/2006 01:06:50 PM · #150 |
Originally posted by karmat:
Originally posted by stdavidson:
Both my images are struggling to keep a 6. In the real world those scores would be considered low "D" efforts. DPCers are exceptionally hard to please. :) |
I think I disagree, but I want more info. What would be an "A" etc? In the "real world" average is a "C" and the average, it would seem on dpc is 5.5. So a 6 is more like a C+ or B-. :) |
Right. This isn't a test, with correct answers and false answers. It's an image popularity contest. For all practical purposes, throwing away outliers (like images that score int he 3's because they don't meet challenges) the cumulative grading scale in DPC runs from 4 to 8, with 4 being about the worst you can do and 8 about the best you can do. So on numbers alone, a 6 puts you smack in the middle. Based on average score received in a given challenge, 6 usually (but not always) puts you8 well above the middle of the rankings; in "trains", 6.0 would have finished 44th out of 194 entries.
Don't get hung up on the numbers, focus on where you sort out to. The numbers are just markers, they have no inherent meaning in such a diverse group as DPC. The real question is simply, where did you rank against the other entries?
R. |
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