| Author | Thread |
|
|
10/31/2006 07:37:43 PM · #1 |
Something has got to give. I do portrait sessions in my free time as I am a stay-at-home-mom. I also freelance for the local paper...in my spare time.
Typically, I charge $10/person for a sitting fee. I take the photos, I have them do a quick elimination of the ones they do not like, and then I edit them all and put them up on SmugMug for ordering. This works out when they eliminate a bunch, but it sucks when I am stuck with 150 photos to edit. The latter is burning me out.
Typically, the more pictures they have to choose from the more they order. However, I have got to find a balance. I cannot be spending hours per session editing pictures. My latest shoot was, by far, the worst I have ever done. It was so bad, that I am giving them a big discount on prints prices. They were happy with the pictures, however. The thing is, it is killing me editing 150 photos that would have been first on my list to delete...LOL It's NOT fun.
My husband suggests that I set a minimum $20 session fee. $20 buys you 20 frames that I edit. $30 buys you 30 frames. $40 buys you 40 frames. How would I work this for a single person versus a group of 6?
I just could really use some thoughts and advice. I am spending way to much time at the computer.
Jenn |
|
|
|
10/31/2006 07:41:04 PM · #2 |
Here's my model:
$100/hour sitting fee for 1-5 people - extra $40 for 6 or more. That includes however many shots I can get in an hour, which I then choose through and find the 20-40 best shots. I process the 20-40, put those on smugmug and charge about 350% markup on smugmug print prices. This nets me around $200-250 per sitting normally -- more for groups.
|
|
|
|
10/31/2006 07:44:28 PM · #3 |
Originally posted by idnic:
Here's my model:
$100/hour sitting fee for 1-5 people - extra $40 for 6 or more. That includes however many shots I can get in an hour, which I then choose through and find the 20-40 best shots. I process the 20-40, put those on smugmug and charge about 350% markup on smugmug print prices. This nets me around $200-250 per sitting normally -- more for groups. |
Thanks Cindi...
Am I making a mistake by allowing my customer choose the best? My husband and my friend think that it's better to not let them see all the pictures.
Im happy with my print prices, but I need to find a sitting fee structure that works. What do you tell them the sitting fee is for?
|
|
|
|
10/31/2006 07:47:19 PM · #4 |
idnic has a good business model there, just remember not to undersell yourself. If you believe you're work is of a decent quality, then make sure you charge for it.. initially its quite hard asking people for $$$ when you are basically doing something you love, but trust me, people will happily pay over £300 (UKP) for a few good portraits over here.
Look at the sitting fee as the equivalent of a call out fee for a plumber or electrician..
Message edited by author 2006-10-31 19:48:07. |
|
|
|
10/31/2006 07:48:16 PM · #5 |
Firstly, I'd raise your session fee. Because you need to not only take into effect the hour or so of shooting time, but also the amount of time you'll spend editing them, ordering them, shipping them. And perhaps think about not editing all of them. Show them proofs from which they can order and edit the ones they order. Saves alot of your time editing photos that may not end up buying. You say they picked out 150, are they really going to buy 150 photos? Then why edit them all? You need to think of your time and state of mind. You don't want to get burned out on editing.
Keep it fun and enjoyable for yourself. :-)
|
|
|
|
10/31/2006 08:00:36 PM · #6 |
Thank you guys. Here is a link to my Print Prices.
What would you recommend for sitting fee? It's hard here because 99% of my business is fellow military families and friends of friends. It's hard charging people!
Honestly, I have enought to keep me busy without photography, so I don't care to be overwhelmed with photo sessions. Right now, 1 per week is plenty. Even doing a couple a week, I am just to stressed editing so many pictures.
I am scared of getting sick of photography!
|
|
|
|
10/31/2006 08:16:49 PM · #7 |
I spent the last 3 days in photo business classes...lessee...Bruce Hudson charges $350-500 for a sitting/session fee.
Jen Hillenga I'm not sure, but HS seniors are a $200 session fee. But then, her weddings run $7500.
I have been charging $40 for 1/2 hour in studio. for that they get about 12 images to select from. there is no reason to give them more, and probably shold give them less.
The mom and daughter team form Sunday shoot 150 on a HS senior session and give only 40 to choose from.
You are the artist. You decide what your 'look' or 'style' is, what you want you work to be, and that's what you offer.
EVERYONE of the 5 speakers - EVERYONE high end for many reasons, and some STARTED high end as newbies, show ONLY retouched images. It takes 2 to 5 minutes per image in PS (once you get the routine down) so even 40 images can take 90 minutes! Add to that some consult time, the shoot time, and you have 2 1/2 to 3 hours invested and they may not buy a damned thing! For what, a $10 or $20 sitting fee?
It's not hard charging people - your gas station, the PX, the grocer, your hair person all have no problem charging for their work!
Charge $100 for sitting fee. Be the Mercedes or Rolls Royce of portraiture! If you charge alot not everyone can afford it - which is what makes you exclusive and worth every penny!
|
|
|
|
10/31/2006 08:33:01 PM · #8 |
Thank you for the advice. As you said, time really does add up when you are editing pictures! I am not sure I could go as high as $100, but I am definitely taking into consideration what you guys have said about raising my prices even higher than I had planned. Even setting up my studio is a hassle. I have to reararrange my furniture and everything.
Jenesis- Exactly. I know they are not going to order 150 prints, so why the heck do they want me to edit them all? This is the only session I have done that I really hate the pictures. There are a few good ones, but for the most part they are crap...LOL I am embarrassed to even put them on my webpage (they are that bad!) At least the customer likes them...whew!!!!
|
|
|
|
10/31/2006 09:18:50 PM · #9 |
Hey Jennifer, Well you are ahead of me, I haven't done any for-hire work... yet! But your question about pre-editing photos that your customers may not order made me think of proof-delayed shipping that smugmug has recently begun to offer. I notice that you already use them and thought that you might have missed that new feature.
Something else I noticed is that you hint that you sometimes feel like you are TOO busy. It may seem overly obvious, but you know that the more you charge, the less work you will have coming in. And that might be a good thing in this case.
Good luck! |
|
|
|
10/31/2006 09:24:56 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by nova:
Hey Jennifer, Well you are ahead of me, I haven't done any for-hire work... yet! But your question about pre-editing photos that your customers may not order made me think of proof-delayed shipping that smugmug has recently begun to offer. I notice that you already use them and thought that you might have missed that new feature.
Something else I noticed is that you hint that you sometimes feel like you are TOO busy. It may seem overly obvious, but you know that the more you charge, the less work you will have coming in. And that might be a good thing in this case.
Good luck! |
I have used the proof delay the past couple times. However, I did 99% of the editing first. (makes sense, eh?...lol) My thinking is people are more inclined to order if they see the photo fully edited. I may be wrong :)
I guess I feel guilty pricing to high and that is the basics of it. As I mentioned, my market is military.....and a lot of friends of friends of friends. Then again, it is THEIR choice to hire me. I feel silly feeling busy with 2 sessions a week. If it weren't for the kids, it wouldn't be so bad! I just hate when photography eats up ALL my spare time, KWIM?
|
|
|
|
10/31/2006 09:33:21 PM · #11 |
What I learned at school the past two days has me thinking this for HS seniors (i don't have portrait prices for reg portraits at this time.)
Right now all my customers pay the same for prints. An 8x10 is $16.
From what the biggies say, that's wrong. (Besides the fact they charge $125 or more for one...)
Think like this - my mind is still working on it.
Say an 8x10 ala carte is $40. You won't probably every sell one for that, do won't worry about that price. You don't want to sell one for that price either. If you do , then it's too cheap, raise your prices.
What???????????????????? you say!
OK, here goes... You have sessions - 1/2 hour is $40. All prints are sold ala carte. So they want 2 8x10s (one pose or 2, it does not matter) it's $40 for the sitting and $80 for the prints, $120.
BUT, you have another session, and print packages too.
So this is a 1 hour session for $65, BUT you have to buy a print package.
Package A is any 2 poses and you get 2 8x10s, 4 5x7 and 16 wallets for $80.
Package B is 3 poses and they get 1 11x14, 2 8x10, 6 5x7 and 32 wallets for $150.
Add another pose to any pacakge for $40 (pick any number you like, offer coupons or bonus levels or or or)
You gave them a cheap option, the ala carte option.
You gave them a better value, a whole HOUR for $65. They feel like they got a better deal, you got more time to work, to make more poses and better poses (so you can sell more poses - duh!).
Show them 8 nice images to choose from. Show them a tryptich maybe, or a collage/montage too.
If they bought package A you sold $145 and 2 poses and they got more prints to probably pass around (so put your NAME AND LOGO on them!)
Package B gets you $215.
You don't care if they one one pose on all the wallets or split it up, or the 11x14 of one pose and the 8x10's as the other or same pose. If they want another pose they pay $40 more, then they can use any of the chosen poses any way they want.
OK, so say they want a third 8x10. It's NOT $40. It's $20 - with the purchase of any print package - is the key.
You can make the price with a package your current 8x10 price, so in reality you didn't raise your prices, it just looks that way. And it makes it a LOT easier to sell more prints.
I'll be changing my website soon to a system like this. The sessions and sitting fees and print packages will be on-line. The print package pricing WILL NOT BE. The plan is they will contact me if they like my work, and then i can send out the prices, and anyother marketing i want.
And you want more business? How much more? Start a referral program. Start it this way - call everyone you know and offer them a free session AND a free 5x7 - all you want is the names and addresses of 10 friends. You call /mail them and say 'Jane gave me your name. I took some photos of Jane and her baby/dog/husband/chair and I'd like to offer you 50% off a session and a free 5x7. You got 90 days to set this up" (prettier wording but you get the idea).
Get 10 names and addresses off them, etc, etc, etc.
You can do free sessions and charge for prints, or whatever you want to do.
The other thing that works well is to do all your shoots on one day. You only have to set up your lights/BG etc once a week. shoot 1 session or 10 it doesn't matter. It's more efficient, and the clients bump into eachother as they arrive and the last one leaves - you appear BUSY and successful! Even if it's only 2 clients that day, they both think you're in demand.
I got 12 more hours of ideas too....
|
|
|
|
11/01/2006 12:12:04 AM · #12 |
Ok, how does this sound:
$40 sitting fee for up to 4 people
I will then choose 20-30 of the best to edit and put online for ordering.
I am thinking this woold work better for me. This way, I am not rearanging my living room for a 1 person $10 shoot! This also limits the amount of photos I have to edit. I'd love to put 'I will choose a minimum of 20 portraits' but I don't want people's expectations to be high.
Thanks everyone for pushing me to up the prices. Maybe eventually I will feel comfortable charging more but this is a big step for me. I am still not confident in my photography.....and still have way to much to learn. Baby steps :)
|
|
|
|
11/01/2006 12:14:57 AM · #13 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
What I learned at school the past two days has me thinking this for HS seniors (i don't have portrait prices for reg portraits at this time.)
I got 12 more hours of ideas too.... |
...wow. That is a lot of info and kinda confusing...LOL I bet this will be very useful for everyone reading this that does a lot of sessions!
|
|
|
|
11/01/2006 12:39:36 AM · #14 |
Just when I get some confidence I get a bad print back form the lab - those SOBs...then I check my file...I'm the SOB that blew it.
But I've learned something new. No values over 245, ever. It looks good on my screen, but the lab can't do it for some reason. Hmm, digital capture outstrips the range the lab can print! Who knew.
|
|
|
|
11/01/2006 01:06:25 AM · #15 |
Ok, how does this look?
My Print Pricing Page
Thanks :)
|
|
|
|
11/01/2006 08:50:37 AM · #16 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
What I learned at school the past two days has me thinking this for HS seniors (i don't have portrait prices for reg portraits at this time.)
Right now all my customers pay the same for prints. An 8x10 is $16.
From what the biggies say, that's wrong. (Besides the fact they charge $125 or more for one...)
Think like this - my mind is still working on it.
Say an 8x10 ala carte is $40. You won't probably every sell one for that, do won't worry about that price. You don't want to sell one for that price either. If you do , then it's too cheap, raise your prices.
What???????????????????? you say!
OK, here goes... You have sessions - 1/2 hour is $40. All prints are sold ala carte. So they want 2 8x10s (one pose or 2, it does not matter) it's $40 for the sitting and $80 for the prints, $120.
BUT, you have another session, and print packages too.
So this is a 1 hour session for $65, BUT you have to buy a print package.
Package A is any 2 poses and you get 2 8x10s, 4 5x7 and 16 wallets for $80.
Package B is 3 poses and they get 1 11x14, 2 8x10, 6 5x7 and 32 wallets for $150.
Add another pose to any pacakge for $40 (pick any number you like, offer coupons or bonus levels or or or)
You gave them a cheap option, the ala carte option.
You gave them a better value, a whole HOUR for $65. They feel like they got a better deal, you got more time to work, to make more poses and better poses (so you can sell more poses - duh!).
Show them 8 nice images to choose from. Show them a tryptich maybe, or a collage/montage too.
If they bought package A you sold $145 and 2 poses and they got more prints to probably pass around (so put your NAME AND LOGO on them!)
Package B gets you $215.
You don't care if they one one pose on all the wallets or split it up, or the 11x14 of one pose and the 8x10's as the other or same pose. If they want another pose they pay $40 more, then they can use any of the chosen poses any way they want.
OK, so say they want a third 8x10. It's NOT $40. It's $20 - with the purchase of any print package - is the key.
You can make the price with a package your current 8x10 price, so in reality you didn't raise your prices, it just looks that way. And it makes it a LOT easier to sell more prints.
I'll be changing my website soon to a system like this. The sessions and sitting fees and print packages will be on-line. The print package pricing WILL NOT BE. The plan is they will contact me if they like my work, and then i can send out the prices, and anyother marketing i want.
And you want more business? How much more? Start a referral program. Start it this way - call everyone you know and offer them a free session AND a free 5x7 - all you want is the names and addresses of 10 friends. You call /mail them and say 'Jane gave me your name. I took some photos of Jane and her baby/dog/husband/chair and I'd like to offer you 50% off a session and a free 5x7. You got 90 days to set this up" (prettier wording but you get the idea).
Get 10 names and addresses off them, etc, etc, etc.
You can do free sessions and charge for prints, or whatever you want to do.
The other thing that works well is to do all your shoots on one day. You only have to set up your lights/BG etc once a week. shoot 1 session or 10 it doesn't matter. It's more efficient, and the clients bump into eachother as they arrive and the last one leaves - you appear BUSY and successful! Even if it's only 2 clients that day, they both think you're in demand.
I got 12 more hours of ideas too.... |
interesting stuff chris, how much does that seminar run?
|
|
|
|
11/01/2006 10:14:08 AM · #17 |
It was free with Triangle membership....neat, huh? They do three more days in May - so 6 days of really good info and stuff for teh membership of $150, and if take the school in March as a member you save $50 - so essentially 3 days for $50.
The neat thing is you often get one-on-one time with the talent, or at the week long school their assistants. At the march school I spent abit over an hour with a photoshop guru from Romaguera photography.
You also get to associate with all the other students- some are fairly new, but some run million dollar studios. Some shoot schools, or sports, or commercial - you can learn alot at lunch, or in the hospitality room (oh yeah, free eats and beer too)
The websites for the instructors this week
//www.antisdelsphotography.com/
//www.hudsonportraits.com/
//www.pepisstudio.com/studioinfo.html
//www.beitzelphoto.com/default.aspx
//www.momentoimages.com/
//www.michelecelentano.com/
|
|
|
|
11/01/2006 10:50:55 AM · #18 |
question: how many sizes do you offer and what are the 'usual' sizes ordered??...
(I know they sound low...and should be as I am JUST starting...and these will only be for the non-family or experience gaining sessions)
But I am planning something like this: $25.00 sitting fee (1-4 ppl) with a $10.00 discount if print ordered is over $35.00
11x14 $15./8x10 $10/1-5x7 $7./2-5x7 $10/1 4x6 - $4 / 3-4x6 $10/wallets (4) $3 / mini (8) $3.00
Pkg 1,1 pose $40.00 (1 8x10,2 5x7, 1 set wallets, 1 set mini's, (my net profit based on ordering from mpix = $29.68
Pg 2, 2 poses $65.00 (2 8x10, 4 5x7, 2 sets wallets, 2 sets minis(my net profit $47.31
any additional poses are purchases as a full package or individually. Only one $10.00 discount per session...not off of each package.
Right now I am gathering up some appointments with no fee, except the cost of printing/shipping from mpix. I just want to get something in hand in case someone gets referred to me.
so, too high for a beginner?? or too confusing?
|
|
|
|
11/01/2006 12:06:56 PM · #19 |
Well let me tell you my point of view of this type of photography. This is knot my main experience, I've got more experience in shooting weddings and books for models.
I think that your sitting fees should be high if you have so much work editing the photos. And that's a bit strange if you shoot in your studio, because if you have a good control of the light the photos should be almost good out of the camera. think for example that if you have a 2 hour session and you will need 3 hour in editing it will be at least half day job so your fees should reflect that. So I would charge between 50 and 100$.
My workflow is do the session, photograph in raw, ajust just exposition and do the proofing online. Only edit the photos they choose to save time. This way there's no tim waisting in photos they don't want. And I agree with you that if they have more to choose from they will order more also. Advise your customers that the proofing is not final job and they will receive the photos better thatn they see there. Everyone undestands that the proofs are only for that: proofing, and not the final photograph.
About the prices I do like this: if there's no package of photos involved they are knot obliged to buy any quantaty of photos. They pay the sitting fees (50€ that is more or less 60$ USD) to cover the photographic session work. Then they will see the proofs online and I will give then also a CD with low resolution images with watermarks. They pay the regular printig prices like all customers, plus special edition on the image (like removing scars, rinkles, etc, but I don't charge regular editilng and color convertion). If there's an agreement about th equantity of photos or a package of photos I don't charge (or charge less) the sitting fees, becuase it is diluted in the price (if the package price justifies if of course).
|
|
|
|
11/01/2006 12:20:35 PM · #20 |
As a point of reference, Tara Whitney is a stay at home mom, who shoots families and portraits on the side. She limits it to 2 or 3 sessions a month and each session is a 1 to 3 hour shoot. The clients get a disc with 25-75 pictures on it, edited, and worked on. Then they pay extra for prints.
Her base rate is $800.00 per session.
You are massively underselling yourself, your time and your talent.
$10 is amazing.
Tara Whitney's blog and portfolio
Interview with Tara
Now - you might look at her portfolio and think 'oh, she's better than me though, I can't charge that much' which is fair enough. But are her pictures 80 times better than yours ? 10 times better ? Twice as good ?
Currently you are doing twice as much work, for 80 times less money.
Message edited by author 2006-11-01 12:24:20. |
|
|
|
11/01/2006 03:45:46 PM · #21 |
The subjects themselves never need much post processing. It is my background that do! I use muslin because they do not sell paper here and it costs a FORTUNE to ship it here. With the white muslin, I sometime have to touch up greyish spots in the corners. With black muslin, I often have to clone out dog hair. My dog sheds like crazy, and despite throwing my backdrop in the dryer and then using a lint brush....I still manage to get stray hairs!
|
|
|
|
11/01/2006 07:59:09 PM · #22 |
I've only done one family so far, rest have been seniors and I'm on burnout myself. I have one more senior session this weekend and I am SO done.
Basically my sitting fee is 35 and that comes with a cd rom of proofs - with my name across each picture, number in corner. Has worked really well.
I don't normally take more than 50 or so pictures a session though. I'm REALLY careful about what I shoot unless it's young children and then I get them in an enviroment they are comfortable in and shoot away.
But for something more formal and organized don't really even pose them. I like them comfortable and I go for the free spirited shots. Seems to have worked so far.
I go through them after the session and ditch what I don't like on my own. I don't do much editing, and what I do end up doing- spot removal ect, I charge extra for. |
|
|
|
11/01/2006 08:23:15 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by JRalston:
The subjects themselves never need much post processing. It is my background that do! I use muslin because they do not sell paper here and it costs a FORTUNE to ship it here. With the white muslin, I sometime have to touch up greyish spots in the corners. With black muslin, I often have to clone out dog hair. My dog sheds like crazy, and despite throwing my backdrop in the dryer and then using a lint brush....I still manage to get stray hairs! |
What have you for for lights?
If you have ANY background and keep it unlit it'll be black in the photo...3 stops difference is the general rule, so if you're shooting the subject at F8 then the BG needs to be f2.8 or darker and it'll be black. all black. for an all white BG it's lots easier to start with white, but again, light it 3 stops over and you won't get any grey spots. F22 in this case, but you can always back the subject off a stop to 5.6 so the BG is at 16.
use the PATCH tool and it takes less time to fix a spot than to read this sentence.
teh only diff on these is the NUMBER of lights I have turned on. the BG did not change -the blue is a gel, the BG is a brown muslin.
 
|
|
