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DPChallenge Forums >> Hardware and Software >> Please help! Really strange problem...any ideas?
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 10/19/2006 09:23:17 PM · #1
Ok, I am lost on this one and I am hoping one of you gurus have an idea. Here goes:

I have a D70S and my wife has a D70. Both shooting RAW. I put in a 1GB CF card in my D70S and can get 178 photos after format. I put the same exact card in my wifes D70 and can only get 94 photos after format. I have confirmed that the settings are exactly the same in both cameras. I have taken pics with both camera using the same lens and subject and get the same .NEF file size on both (within a few bytes). This problem is the same if I change the camera from RAW to JPG etc..I thought possibly her D70 is reporting the wrong number of available pics on the card. While this may be true, it is a "hard-stop". In other words, when it hits the 94 pic limit it's done with that card...Is there something I am missing here? I am stumped urgh!
 10/19/2006 09:25:06 PM · #2
i am not familiar with Nikon but are you sure hers is not on raw+JPEG?
 10/19/2006 09:27:34 PM · #3
Have you tried just shooting until you can't anymore? My D50 and D70 both do that... say there is xyz left but I have been able to shoot more than it said I had.. It said I had used 577 and when I downloaded there were 720. So who knows.
 10/19/2006 09:29:58 PM · #4
I'm pretty sure you will have to shoot the exact same shots in each camera. For example; if you shoot a black blanket and the entire shot is black...that pic will take a little less "memory" space than the shot you may take of say...a multi colored flower...

Originally posted by captbender:
Ok, I am lost on this one and I am hoping one of you gurus have an idea. Here goes:

I have a D70S and my wife has a D70. Both shooting RAW. I put in a 1GB CF card in my D70S and can get 178 photos after format. I put the same exact card in my wifes D70 and can only get 94 photos after format. I have confirmed that the settings are exactly the same in both cameras. I have taken pics with both camera using the same lens and subject and get the same .NEF file size on both (within a few bytes). This problem is the same if I change the camera from RAW to JPG etc..I thought possibly her D70 is reporting the wrong number of available pics on the card. While this may be true, it is a "hard-stop". In other words, when it hits the 94 pic limit it's done with that card...Is there something I am missing here? I am stumped urgh!

10/19/2006 09:31:46 PM · #5
Originally posted by brizmama:
Have you tried just shooting until you can't anymore? My D50 and D70 both do that... say there is xyz left but I have been able to shoot more than it said I had.. It said I had used 577 and when I downloaded there were 720. So who knows.


Both my Canon 300D and my Nikon Coolpix 8700 both do that. Dpending on the subject matter, I can get quite a bit more on a card than the cameras report.
 10/19/2006 09:33:10 PM · #6
also, make sure the iso is the same. lower isos take less space. that's all that i can think of.
 10/19/2006 09:40:59 PM · #7
Originally posted by captbender:
Ok, I am lost on this one and I am hoping one of you gurus have an idea. Here goes:

I have a D70S and my wife has a D70. Both shooting RAW. I put in a 1GB CF card in my D70S and can get 178 photos after format. I put the same exact card in my wifes D70 and can only get 94 photos after format. I have confirmed that the settings are exactly the same in both cameras. I have taken pics with both camera using the same lens and subject and get the same .NEF file size on both (within a few bytes). This problem is the same if I change the camera from RAW to JPG etc..I thought possibly her D70 is reporting the wrong number of available pics on the card. While this may be true, it is a "hard-stop". In other words, when it hits the 94 pic limit it's done with that card...Is there something I am missing here? I am stumped urgh!

Are you shooting the exact same subjects? If not, then you are not comparing "apples to apples". Also, did you format the card in both cameras before shooting? What sizes are the JPG thumbnails/previews that are shown in the LCD? This could make a difference.
 10/19/2006 09:48:17 PM · #8
Originally posted by captbender:
Ok, I am lost on this one and I am hoping one of you gurus have an idea. Here goes:

I have a D70S and my wife has a D70. Both shooting RAW. I put in a 1GB CF card in my D70S and can get 178 photos after format. I put the same exact card in my wifes D70 and can only get 94 photos after format. I have confirmed that the settings are exactly the same in both cameras. I have taken pics with both camera using the same lens and subject and get the same .NEF file size on both (within a few bytes). This problem is the same if I change the camera from RAW to JPG etc..I thought possibly her D70 is reporting the wrong number of available pics on the card. While this may be true, it is a "hard-stop". In other words, when it hits the 94 pic limit it's done with that card...Is there something I am missing here? I am stumped urgh!


I did a little more testing with a 32MB card. I confirmed both cameras were using the same settings (ISO, RAW etc) and took enough pics of the same subject to fill the 32mb card. I was able to get 3 pics with the d70 and 4 with the d70s. The file sizes were almost exactly the same on both. The d70 used 15.6MB of the 32MB card before filling up and the d70s used 21.8MB of the card before filling up.

I understand that different subject matter, ISO etc can impact storage but by more than half? I don't think that's possible. In any case, the d70 "reports" less than half the available pics as the d70s?? The only thing I can think of is 1:) something is wrong with the d70 and it's not reporting space properly or 2:) the D70S has some type of compression to store pics more efficiently??
 10/19/2006 09:50:22 PM · #9
Originally posted by captbender:

I did a little more testing with a 32MB card. I confirmed both cameras were using the same settings (ISO, RAW etc) and took enough pics of the same subject to fill the 32mb card. I was able to get 3 pics with the d70 and 4 with the d70s. The file sizes were almost exactly the same on both. The d70 used 15.6MB of the 32MB card before filling up and the d70s used 21.8MB of the card before filling up.


Set both cameras to manual with a fast shutter speed... and shoot both with the lens cap on and compare the results.
 10/19/2006 09:51:33 PM · #10
It's possible that the system files for the D70 take up more room than the system files for the D70S.
 10/19/2006 09:51:37 PM · #11
I shoot with the D70 and I get 94 - ONLY 94 shots per roll - my buddy trapped in film land feels so bad for me.

Don't know why they would be different - maybe S stands for "lots of RAW per card"?
 10/19/2006 09:52:24 PM · #12
I don't know the camera, but are the firmware levels the same? Could it be different compression alogorithms in play?
 10/19/2006 09:53:02 PM · #13
Yes

Originally posted by cpanaioti:
It's possible that the system files for the D70 take up more room than the system files for the D70S.

10/19/2006 10:02:18 PM · #14
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
It's possible that the system files for the D70 take up more room than the system files for the D70S.


Ok, did as requested. Cap on lens, 1/1000 sp, 200 ISO and RAW with same 32MB card on both (I formatted the card on each camera before shooting).

D70- 4 pics and used 16.3MB of the card before filling up
D70S - 5 pics and used 20.3MB of the card before filling up

Compared a file sizes and they are all within 20 bytes of each other...

Hmmm???
 10/19/2006 10:03:30 PM · #15
Originally posted by digitalknight:
I shoot with the D70 and I get 94 - ONLY 94 shots per roll - my buddy trapped in film land feels so bad for me.

Don't know why they would be different - maybe S stands for "lots of RAW per card"?


See that's interesting. I get the same 94 on my d70 but 178 on my d70s.
 10/19/2006 10:06:59 PM · #16
Originally posted by Nobody:
I don't know the camera, but are the firmware levels the same? Could it be different compression alogorithms in play?


I considered that as well but the file sizes are almost exactly the same so file compression can't be it. Possibly the way they STORE the files is different but by more than half? I have a 4GB micordrive and I get 717 pics on it with my d70s but only 370 on the d70...
 10/19/2006 10:12:00 PM · #17
It's a glitch in the Matrix or a disturbance in the Force. One of the two.

It sounds like there's just an error reading the card on the part of the camera that lets you shoot less. Probably redundant at this point, but make sure you're formatting the card in the camera that you're going to shoot with. Don't format on one and put it in the other.
 10/19/2006 10:12:17 PM · #18
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
It's possible that the system files for the D70 take up more room than the system files for the D70S.


I checked that as well. There is only one system file on the card that I can see on both cameras and they are both they same 1Kb in size. Unless the files are hidden on the card in such a way that they can't be seen on a PC with "show hidden files" on which I do not think so...
 10/19/2006 10:14:24 PM · #19
Originally posted by rob_banks:
It's a glitch in the Matrix or a disturbance in the Force. One of the two.

It sounds like there's just an error reading the card on the part of the camera that lets you shoot less. Probably redundant at this point, but make sure you're formatting the card in the camera that you're going to shoot with. Don't format on one and put it in the other.


Yes, I did format in both camera before shooting..
I think your right Rob. I think it is a glitch in the Matrix. There is no other explantion...:)
 10/19/2006 10:19:09 PM · #20
Or, have you seen this before?

Nikon Service Advisory For D70
 10/19/2006 10:25:26 PM · #21
Originally posted by rob_banks:
Or, have you seen this before?

Nikon Service Advisory For D70


Thanks Rob. I looked at this but the D70 works perfectly otherwise so I don't think this is it...
 10/19/2006 10:30:05 PM · #22
It's probably worth contacting them if it's a real problem for you. It could be early warning signs of a complete failure of the memory-card-related elecdtronics.

Another Google nugget (Googet?) I found was that one guy said, "When I look at the card on the PC, the first 11-12 photos are all ok and I can download them, the last file is there but it is empty 0 KB."
 10/19/2006 10:39:37 PM · #23
Originally posted by rob_banks:
It's probably worth contacting them if it's a real problem for you. It could be early warning signs of a complete failure of the memory-card-related elecdtronics.

Another Google nugget (Googet?) I found was that one guy said, "When I look at the card on the PC, the first 11-12 photos are all ok and I can download them, the last file is there but it is empty 0 KB."


The files are all ok for the d70 it just not appear to be utilizing the card properly.

Also, I just formatted at 32MB card on both cameras and did not take any pics and checked it on my PC. Both are identical after a fomat: 30.4MB free and 4kb used.

A problem with the camera is my concern as well. If this is normal I will live with it but if not I need to get it looked at.
 10/19/2006 11:02:46 PM · #24
Just formated my D70 1 GB card and at Raw only setting; says 178 photos. I know that it does take many on a 1 GB card. Sounds like you should contact Nikon.
 10/19/2006 11:12:44 PM · #25
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by jrtodd:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Found what I was looking for here

Nikon D70 Firmware update 2.0 for Windows
What is new/Content Description
Issues addressed with firmware version 2.0

3. The number of exposures remaining, displayed in the control panel and viewfinder, when shooting at an image-quality setting of NEF (RAW) or NEF+JPEG Basic has been changed (the number is calculated based on the size of compressed RAW file).
Maximum number of exposures displayed when a 256-MB CompactFlash memory card is used:

Version 2.00: NEF (RAW): approx. 44 exposures; NEF+JPEG Basic: approx. 39 exposures
Version 1.03 or earlier: NEF (RAW): approx. 23 exposures; NEF+JPEG Basic: approx. 21 exposures.

All is well.. Thanks jrtodd!
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