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10/17/2006 12:45:07 AM · #1
I just went to read the forums at a highly popular camera review site, trying to read up on some new camera hardware/models. While I'm not suprised with the debates and comparisons between models, I find certain debates very silly and highly biased, to the extend of looking really foolish (on the poster's part).

Analyzing the situation and posts, I concluded that some owners are simply afraid of people not using the same hardware they are. Also, many owners seem to be highly worried about their current equipment not being the popular one.

While I do understand that the more popular hardware will get more 3rd party stuff/support, I still feel that blatantly defending a certain piece of hardware and not acknowledging it's shortcomings to be ignorant and naive. Isn't that similar to misleading someone into buying an inferior product? It's kinda make my stomach turn in disgust, to be honest.

Yes, I've been doing some homework for my next camera upgrade. And all I'm saying is, the more I read, the more I get undecided, LOL!
10/17/2006 12:59:50 AM · #2
People just want you to buy what they have. If they were any good, they would be making photos rather than spending so much time talking about their gear :)
10/17/2006 01:51:53 AM · #3
Originally posted by jmsetzler:

People just want you to buy what they have. If they were any good, they would be making photos rather than spending so much time talking about their gear :)


Oh yea, well Canon Sucks and Pentax Rules.

Is that the kind of silly, highly biased, comment you are referring to?


10/17/2006 02:03:25 AM · #4
I just realized I've been up for about 37 hours straight, so my above comment seemed really funny- but honestly right now being poked with a pointed stick would probably be funny to me.

I'll try to come up with something constructive to add to this conversation after I get some sleep.

Good night.


10/17/2006 02:16:28 AM · #5
Fuji sucks and XYZ rules...
10/17/2006 02:20:24 AM · #6
I recently moved up to a DSLR, picking up the Nikon D80 which was just released, and posted links to my pictures on another site for people thinking about the camera. One person from there posted a comment about how his camera was better than mine (he had a D70) and got upset when I removed his comment, sending me a PM. I think that most people want to be sure they got the best camera and some think that those who do not have the same one are idiots. I am convinced that I found the best camera for me, but recognize that others have different needs and budgets. I am too busy trying to sort through the 600+ shots I took on vacation last week to care what others think about my camera.
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10/17/2006 02:28:15 AM · #7
Originally posted by JeffryZ:

I recently moved up to a DSLR, picking up the Nikon D80 which was just released, and posted links to my pictures on another site for people thinking about the camera. One person from there posted a comment about how his camera was better than mine (he had a D70) and got upset when I removed his comment, sending me a PM.

Maybe in a year when that same guy has upgraded to a D80, he'd start posting about how the D80 eats the D70 for lunch, breakfast or whatever. This is exactly one of those "childish" opinions I came across while reading about some cameras that caught my interest... sigh. They really are making me doubt if I wanna be using the same camera, and that there might just be some hidden agenda about why they so desperately want everyone else to use what they are using.
10/17/2006 03:37:39 AM · #8
people that relay on gear to make a good picture are just insecure photographers..
Lets face it now a days any DSLR will do the trick, one will have this and the other one will have that, but all of them will have AV - TV - Manual which are the only things you really need to take a good picture (if you know how to use a camera)

What i started thinking is that im trusting dpreview less land less, i have the feeling he is being 'bought' to use certain brands as comparison and exclude other ones
10/17/2006 05:16:18 AM · #9
Originally posted by Pano:

but all of them will have AV - TV - Manual


You can watch TV on your camera? WOW! :-P
10/17/2006 11:49:45 AM · #10
Okay I got some sleep.

Here is what I suggest- 1 Build a spreadsheet

1) Identify your 3 or 4 must have features (megapixel,anti-shake... yadda yadda yadda)
2) Determine which cameras have these features (try to narrow it down to 3 or 4)
3) If you have existing lenses, do you want these to work with your new system.
4) Decide which lenses best suit your interests- also note prices for these.
5) If price is not an issue pick one system and go for it.
6) If price is an issue, look at what you feel you can pay and get what you can without compromising quality- remember you can add to the system later. (When I sold cameras I always wondered about people that would spend 2k on a body and then slap a $30 lens on the front).

Honestly I think you can't really go wrong with the big 3- Canon, Nikon Pentax (I personally am not really sold on Sony and never have been- there is my bias statement for this post).

Canon is doing some amazing things with lenses these days, shrinking them down, making them lighter and still wonderfully sharp.

I am really impressed with the Nikon D80. It has some really interesting features and how can you go wrong with Nikon glass.

Pentax is coming on strong. I love my K100, colors are great, the included software could use some work. Pentax glass has always been one of the best kept secrets in the photo world, but if you're looking for big lenses (600 f/4 of 400 f/2.8) right now they really don't have much new out there. Although I got my hands on a K10 and one of their new supersonic wide angles- fast focus, quiet- overall I was very impressed. Wish the supersonics worked with my K100

Sony, like I said, not a big Sony fan. What I saw with Sony when I was selling them was a real hit or miss product line. We always tested out new products and there were some of the Sony P&S's that just blew us away, then you'd test a new camera and it wouldn't be sharp, the colors just weren't quite right, controls were clumsy etc.... Two weeks later you'd run a test on another new model and you'd be blown away again by what they could do. The frustrating thing was that there was no way to know, some of the sweetest little cameras we saw were the cheapest of the lot and some of the worst were the expensive ones- and of course vice versa- after about a year we dropped the Sony line. Our owner got tired of us coming to him and saying- "Wow, this is sweet." Then follow that up with, "But, this one blows."

10/17/2006 12:08:13 PM · #11
It just so happened that several new cameras have been announced within the last couple of months, and there are a lot of "my dog is better than yours" type of discussions.

It seems that the difference in image quality has become unnoticable (among the major players). So now it is no longer possible to say "buy a camera brand X because it has the best image quality" - the difference often lies in little features here and there: some of those little features may seem very important to some, but not the others. Hence the heated discussions.

The problem is even worse because it's hard to know what set of features is *really* important for you in a DSLR until you have owned one for about a year. My advice is to buy an inexpensive camera and some known good used lenses. This way if you realize that you made the wrong choice in a year, you can switch to another system without losing a lot.

Good luck to you in making your choice. I spent agonizing two months deciding between the D50 and the 350D about a year ago. If I were to buy today, I'd be definitely considering Pentax cameras as well.
10/17/2006 12:09:45 PM · #12
it is a type of Cognitive bias
pick one or more ;)

Bandwagon effect - the tendency to do (or believe) things because many other people do (or believe) the same
Choice-supportive bias - the tendency to remember one's choices as better than they actually were.
Endowment effect - the tendency for people to value something more as soon as they own it.
Mere exposure effect - the tendency for people to express undue liking for things merely because they are familiar with them.
Post-purchase rationalization - the tendency to persuade oneself through rational argument that a purchase was good value.
Status quo bias - the tendency for people to like things to stay relatively the same.

(Cherry picked from Wikipedia)

Message edited by author 2006-10-17 12:10:31.
10/17/2006 12:14:57 PM · #13
Originally posted by agenkin:

It just so happened that several new cameras have been announced within the last couple of months, and there are a lot of "my dog is better than yours" type of discussions.

It seems that the difference in image quality has become unnoticable (among the major players). So now it is no longer possible to say "buy a camera brand X because it has the best image quality" - the difference often lies in little features here and there: some of those little features may seem very important to some, but not the others. Hence the heated discussions.

The problem is even worse because it's hard to know what set of features is *really* important for you in a DSLR until you have owned one for about a year. My advice is to buy an inexpensive camera and some known good used lenses. This way if you realize that you made the wrong choice in a year, you can switch to another system without losing a lot.

Good luck to you in making your choice. I spent agonizing two months deciding between the D50 and the 350D about a year ago. If I were to buy today, I'd be definitely considering Pentax cameras as well.


Out of curiosity, what is your most unbiased view on your Hassey H1?

Edit because apparently I haven't gotten enough sleep

Message edited by author 2006-10-17 12:15:37.
10/17/2006 12:39:12 PM · #14
I've been more of a lurker here than anything and recently I wanted to upgrade my 5700 to a DSLR for various reasons. I too have been overwhelmed with the information out there and also the mine is better posts/thread in various forums.

Vxpra makes a great point on how to find whats best for me that now has be re-thinking my approach to this upgrade. I will go the route of the Excel file and weigh in what I think I want/need and see what I can best spend my dollar on.

10/17/2006 12:55:15 PM · #15
I forgot the last key to selecting a camera.

Hold it in your hands before buying. If a camera doesn't feel good to hold, you won't use it long.
10/17/2006 01:00:17 PM · #16
Originally posted by vxpra:

Out of curiosity, what is your most unbiased view on your Hassey H1?

I like it. It helps avoid the camera hardware bashing syndrome in the forums. I think that everyone should get one.
10/17/2006 01:02:28 PM · #17
You realize that now I have no choice but to follow you around the forums and constantly post.

"You know I hear that Hass H1D really sucks, whos that made by Fisher Price?"

:)
10/17/2006 01:08:13 PM · #18
Originally posted by vxpra:

You realize that now I have no choice but to follow you around the forums and constantly post.

"You know I hear that Hass H1D really sucks, whos that made by Fisher Price?"

I guess this is how one finds followers. :^) You should first get a Hassy yourself.
10/17/2006 01:10:44 PM · #19
Originally posted by vxpra:

I forgot the last key to selecting a camera.

Hold it in your hands before buying. If a camera doesn't feel good to hold, you won't use it long.


That's why I got a vibrating model.
10/17/2006 01:11:11 PM · #20
It wasn't so long ago that there was no such thing as an internet. Information was much more hard to come by then. I'd rather weed thru the opinions and debates than have to take the manufacturers word for it.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you ... just saying it could be worse.

Originally posted by crayon:

I just went to read the forums at a highly popular camera review site, trying to read up on some new camera hardware/models. While I'm not suprised with the debates and comparisons between models, I find certain debates very silly and highly biased, to the extend of looking really foolish (on the poster's part).

Analyzing the situation and posts, I concluded that some owners are simply afraid of people not using the same hardware they are. Also, many owners seem to be highly worried about their current equipment not being the popular one.

While I do understand that the more popular hardware will get more 3rd party stuff/support, I still feel that blatantly defending a certain piece of hardware and not acknowledging it's shortcomings to be ignorant and naive. Isn't that similar to misleading someone into buying an inferior product? It's kinda make my stomach turn in disgust, to be honest.

Yes, I've been doing some homework for my next camera upgrade. And all I'm saying is, the more I read, the more I get undecided, LOL!
10/17/2006 01:11:25 PM · #21
How about this ship me yours and I'll play around with it for a few months (years?) and I'll see if I really really want one.

Actually what I've seen from the H1 is amazing. I really really want Pentax to release the 645D. (Wiping drool of chin).


10/17/2006 02:51:41 PM · #22
Originally posted by hopper:

It wasn't so long ago that there was no such thing as an internet.


I'm sick and tired of you old coots talking about a world with no internet. Do you really expect us to believe that?

;)
10/17/2006 03:23:33 PM · #23
you can prolly remember back to telephone "party lines", huh?

and corded cable box sliders?

Originally posted by posthumous:

Originally posted by hopper:

It wasn't so long ago that there was no such thing as an internet.


I'm sick and tired of you old coots talking about a world with no internet. Do you really expect us to believe that?

;)
10/17/2006 04:11:52 PM · #24
Originally posted by hopper:

you can prolly remember back to telephone "party lines", huh?

and corded cable box sliders?

Originally posted by posthumous:

Originally posted by hopper:

It wasn't so long ago that there was no such thing as an internet.


I'm sick and tired of you old coots talking about a world with no internet. Do you really expect us to believe that?

;)


(Don't tell anyone, but I can remember when people had to leave their homes to play video games.)
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