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DPChallenge Forums >> Hardware and Software >> Home-Made Light Box... (made from sheet metal ?)
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09/18/2006 12:57:11 PM · #1
What about sheet metal ?
I was telling a very good friend of mine about how I wanted to make a light box out of PCV pipe and a bed sheet. My buddy is a "Tin Basher" who runs a productions shop, and once I explained to him what it was that I needed, his eyes lit up and he said that he would like to create one out of sheet metal for me instead. All I would have to do is give him the approximate specs.

Since I'm new to photography, I was thinking perhaps some members might have some insight as to dimensions they would use, and perhaps the size and location of holes for light etc, etc... He says there are basically zero limitations to the design, so "be creative he tells me" !

I was thinking of an acrylic flat white paintjob on the inside, although that may not be neccessary as I have "LOTS" of colored Picture Framing Matboard and some white and black foamcore that I can use as interchangeable backgrounds..

Any suggestions are eagerly welcomed !

Thanks very much,

/FC
09/18/2006 01:09:55 PM · #2
The benefit of having bed sheets for the sides is that you can side light or top light the item being photographed. With solid sides, that would not be possible.

Tim
09/18/2006 08:57:57 PM · #3
Originally posted by atupdate:

The benefit of having bed sheets for the sides is that you can side light or top light the item being photographed. With solid sides, that would not be possible.

Tim


Oh hey Tim,

Just wanted to let you know that it can be modified any way I want. Holes in the sides, or on top, or whatever I want. He said he could put on handles, clamp bars for clip on lights or whatever... I think having the porthole on top would be cool for those top view shots !

/FC
09/18/2006 09:02:56 PM · #4
Wow for a first time photographer you know alot...
Ive been one for a year and a half yet I still don't know a thing about light boxes Hmmm funny that

But anyways Im curious as to what type of images you want to frame?

Message edited by author 2006-09-18 21:08:03.
09/18/2006 09:08:47 PM · #5
Yeah...hmmm...sheet metal....ahhhhh....no.

Arguments for sheet metal.

You have a friend that can make it for you. OK, sure. Maybe the labor and material are free. Sure.

Arguments against sheet metal.

Unless you know your electricity,....keep all wires away from the sheet. Possible to compromise the insulation of wires, or cable and can cause electricution, or a real good 120v bite.

Metal heats up. Maybe youv'e seen this happen with a pot or a pan on a stove.

Metal is heavy. You have perfectly good foam core. This is what the "big boys" use in the industry I represent, and am bored of.

Metal is big. Are you going to hinge the metal sides to fold it up? Where to store it? What about that location shoot that you want to take it too?

Metal rusts. Metal bends.

To sum it up.....metal not a good idea for a soft box.

Hell, don't give up on the idea though. The new LEDs out are finding a home in my industry. Make a housing for some sort of LED panel that you can interchange with color corrected jells, or better yet, have the LEDs change to the proper color correction.

Soft boxes should be light weight, sturdy, flexable, and durable.

It's your soft box, not mine.

Good luck.
09/19/2006 12:37:45 AM · #6
Originally posted by xXxscarletxXx:

Wow for a first time photographer you know alot...
Ive been one for a year and a half yet I still don't know a thing about light boxes Hmmm funny that

But anyways Im curious as to what type of images you want to frame?


My experience is VERY limited. A lot of what I know is because of a related field. I want to 'start' photgraphing 'things' in a LightBox, because I believe it will give me a bit of an insight as to the various ways light can be manipulated in order to create really nice looking images. Being able to control the light in a smaller environment might help me with lighting techniques down the road (i.e Portraits etc..) Just my opinion....

Well, to be honest, I don't think I'll frame many product image shots. I do however, like the idea of helping out one friend in particular with her website's product gallery (most of her photos are really poor quality). She just doesn't seem to have a grasp on the "sell what you see" kinda thing... Hopefully, I'll have that issue 'fixed' by the time the site is ready to go online.

As far as framing goes, I'll basically frame just about anything that I find interesting. Many times I'll just remove the photos from different frames and add new ones in their place (most times with new matting). Many photo's will 'esthetically' fit into a well done frame. That's one thing I love about photographs. Once it's time for a new frame to fit an 'obscure' or very 'colourful' photo, I'll make a new frame at that time.

Cheers,

/FC
09/19/2006 12:58:26 AM · #7
I like PVC because where it connects, with the elbows, you can just quickly take it apart and stick it wherever. You can slip the legs off in about 10 seconds and toss some longer legs on if you need to. You can change angles or whatever it is that you need to do really easily. And as far as the sides, you need the WHOLE side to be a diffusing material such as a sheet...not just a small hole. The whole point is to have as large of a lighting 'surface' as possible to reduce shadows. If you create a smaller hole, you won't get the soft effect. The whole sides, top and back should act as a diffuser whenever possible.

Not trying to hijack or anything, but here's the soft effect that (I assume) you are going after.


09/19/2006 01:00:52 AM · #8
Arguments against sheet metal.

Unless you know your electricity,....keep all wires away from the sheet. Possible to compromise the insulation of wires, or cable and can cause electricution, or a real good 120v bite.

Metal heats up. Maybe youv'e seen this happen with a pot or a pan on a stove.

Metal is heavy. You have perfectly good foam core. This is what the "big boys" use in the industry I represent, and am bored of.

Metal is big. Are you going to hinge the metal sides to fold it up? Where to store it? What about that location shoot that you want to take it too?

Metal rusts. Metal bends.

To sum it up.....metal not a good idea for a soft box.

Hell, don't give up on the idea though. The new LEDs out are finding a home in my industry. Make a housing for some sort of LED panel that you can interchange with color corrected jells, or better yet, have the LEDs change to the proper color correction.

Soft boxes should be light weight, sturdy, flexable, and durable.

It's your soft box, not mine.

Good luck. [/quote]


Well, I must say, you have some very valid points there. I can see how that might not work for you, or for anyone in the "field". Lugging around my box would certainly be heavier than others, but .7 to 1.2 millimeter sheet really isn't that heavy.

Aluminum would really be a better choice I suppose (I'll have to ask him about that). Heat is of course an issue, but I suppose it's an issue either way... my thinking was that the metal might be safer because it can't catch fire ! hahahah...(would be just my kinda luck too..)

-Box will be in basically, a permament location. It won't be leaving the basement. It will be either on or under a table for quick access.
-Thinking that a hinged, or removable top (with porthole) might be the way to go with this design.

Anyway, thanks for the input. Much appreciated.

/FC
09/19/2006 01:17:36 AM · #9
Originally posted by deapee:

I like PVC because where it connects, with the elbows, you can just quickly take it apart and stick it wherever. You can slip the legs off in about 10 seconds and toss some longer legs on if you need to. You can change angles or whatever it is that you need to do really easily. And as far as the sides, you need the WHOLE side to be a diffusing material such as a sheet...not just a small hole. The whole point is to have as large of a lighting 'surface' as possible to reduce shadows. If you create a smaller hole, you won't get the soft effect. The whole sides, top and back should act as a diffuser whenever possible.

Not trying to hijack or anything, but here's the soft effect that (I assume) you are going after.



Ahhh, yep.....that's the ticket. Nice pic's too !
I see what you mean now about the diffusion thing. Makes a lot of sense. Puts things into a different perspective really.... How about this;

A plexiglass cube (or rectangle) and creating diffusion by drapeing material over the top, back and sides ! Heck, I suppose a person could even use translucent types of colored paper too...! Do yo think that might work ? I wonder if having a box so transparent would help with the heat issue, in that you might not need the light so close in order to achieve the same effect with other types of Light boxes..
Damn,...you got me thinking harder now !
:)

/FC
09/19/2006 01:38:10 AM · #10
[/quote]

deapee,

The LightBox you were referring to that helped with these great photos,... is it something like this one ? (This is the original setup I was looking at...)

//www.pbase.com/wlhuber/light_box_light_tent

Thanks man,

/FC
09/19/2006 02:36:59 AM · #11
A commercial lightbox (for flash, not hot lights) is just a dish shaped piece of black canvas stretched over a wire frame. The front diffusion panel is a piece of white nylon material. The inside of the canvas shell is lined with a silver reflective material, and there's a removable inner diffusion panel that attaches with small pieces of velcro. The outer shell has narrow sleeves sewn in that the wires of the frame fit into, and Velcro seams hold it all together.

It shouldn't be too difficult to make one. The hardest part would probably be fabricating the part (normally a lightweight metal ring) that holds the wires and attaches the softbox to the light.

You could do without the reflective lining and the inner diffusion panel. Alternatively, you could simply line the inside with aluminum foil. If you want extra diffusion, just add an extra layer of white nylon material to the front panel.

Just don’t try something like this with hot lights, like halogen work lights. Those things are dangerously hot, and they don’t put out as much light as a $10 hot-shoe flash.

09/19/2006 02:37:37 AM · #12
Another idea.

Why don't you make the frame of metal but use sheet material to cover it. This way you can make make the frame extendable/collapsable. Sooner or later you are gonna want to move it.
09/19/2006 05:53:23 AM · #13
Originally posted by micknewton:

A commercial lightbox (for flash, not hot lights) is just a dish shaped piece of black canvas stretched over a wire frame. The front diffusion panel is a piece of white nylon material. The inside of the canvas shell is lined with a silver reflective material, and there's a removable inner diffusion panel that attaches with small pieces of velcro. The outer shell has narrow sleeves sewn in that the wires of the frame fit into, and Velcro seams hold it all together.

I think different terms are being interchanged here. The original poster was talking about a 'light tent', you're talking about a 'soft box' - I suppose a 'light box' is the same as a 'light tent' ? ;-)
09/19/2006 06:16:53 AM · #14
If I were going to do it with metal, I would use some sort of rigid wire with screw ended cable (like the cables used in an automotive emergency brake or something similar - the screw end gives adjustability).

I would design it so it was able to hold the diffusing material INSIDE the frame. This would make any sort of powder coating irrelevant.

I would have a few basic peices that were a bit solid to allow the clamping on of a trouble light of some sort.

However, I'm with the other guys that by far the easiest way is to just use plastic and foam. Much lighter, much less hassle and you get a larger area to send the light through anyhow.
09/19/2006 06:35:57 AM · #15
here is a light tent I made a few months ago
home made light tent
the advantages are that
1 it is very light and easy to move
2 non conductive
3 has large white panels (the larger the light panel the softer the light = less hot spots)
4 can be broken down for storage

hope this helps
09/19/2006 06:45:30 AM · #16
Wow Firsty, that looks awesome! I'll see if I can talk the OC - Officer Commanding, otherwise known as my wife - into letting me try it. Good tip on the light bulbs too.
09/19/2006 08:45:05 AM · #17
Originally posted by floppychicken:


The LightBox you were referring to that helped with these great photos,... is it something like this one ? (This is the original setup I was looking at...)

//www.pbase.com/wlhuber/light_box_light_tent


Not only is it something like that, thos are the exact instructions that I followed.
09/19/2006 10:54:04 AM · #18
hmmm. I made one out of a cardboard box, I painted the inside flat white made a few little windows in the sides and top of the box to poke camera or speedlights through then I cut a few sheets of different colored poster boards to size which I can lay in the box for different backdrops. It works just fine. But I am planning on buying a real softbox perhaps as early as this afternoon because I want something more portable also the cardboard box takes up alot of space.


09/19/2006 11:23:59 AM · #19
Originally posted by jhonan:

Originally posted by micknewton:

A commercial lightbox (for flash, not hot lights) is just a dish shaped piece of black canvas stretched over a wire frame. The front diffusion panel is a piece of white nylon material. The inside of the canvas shell is lined with a silver reflective material, and there's a removable inner diffusion panel that attaches with small pieces of velcro. The outer shell has narrow sleeves sewn in that the wires of the frame fit into, and Velcro seams hold it all together.

I think different terms are being interchanged here. The original poster was talking about a 'light tent', you're talking about a 'soft box' - I suppose a 'light box' is the same as a 'light tent' ? ;-)

Ya know, I think you're right.

Never mind.
09/19/2006 11:51:22 AM · #20
Here are my definitions of the three terms that are being interchanged here.

Light box- a table or tray to backlight transparancies so they can be viewed, often using a loupe.

Soft box- an arrangment of fabric and reflectors used to soften and modulate a light source, often held aloft by a tripod or boom.

Light tent- an arrangment of reflective materials used house an article being photgraphed to reduce hotspots and controll illumination.

The OP is talking about making a light tent out of heavy materials;)
While your friend the tin banger may work for free, the materials will cost more than doing one out of fabric, and while you say that you have a permanent home for the aluminum tent in your basment, I have never seen a storage area, be it a garage, basment, or shed, that needs one more large thing to be ketp in there permanently for occasional use.

Message edited by author 2006-09-19 13:42:31.
09/19/2006 12:30:55 PM · #21
You know what would be cool? 5 square plasma screens to make the box, then your light could be any color you want... Too bad I cannot afford 1 plasma screen.

If anybody could donate me 5 plasma screens I would like to try this out. Preferably big ones 60" or so. I will gladly post images of how well it turned out.

09/19/2006 01:05:43 PM · #22
Okay, yeah, I thought you were talking about a softbox at first too.

Metal is fine, light aluminum tubing would be great. If your friend can make them so that it can be broken down and stored, even better.

IMO - For a lightbox/tent, there is no real advantage unless your friend just wants a project.

Now, for making a large scrim, awwww baby. No twisting in the wind for that sucker. Again, lightest metals possible or portability, hinges to smake it break down would be great. Detachable stand with wingnuts to tighten and lock it into position. I'm thinking a trifold design just long wide enough to fit in a trunk when folded woud be perfect.

Hmm... I need to talk to my sister-in-law's brother whatshisname...


09/19/2006 03:17:57 PM · #23
I decided to make a homemade tent went to Menards and spent 9 dollars another 3 at the fabric store and I have a light tent. well I will once my wife gets home and can sew the fabric together for me. Took less than 30 minutes to cut the tubes to size and piece it all together.

I made the frame 2.5 square. Seems huge right now but I will not regret it the first time I want to photograph something that wouldn't fit in a smaller space.
09/19/2006 03:48:11 PM · #24
Holy Crap !!

Awesome input...Friggin' love this site !
I've got so many ideas running around in my head right now...
I gotta say a big Thank-You to all of you. I've got some great ideas and I think I'm going to go with 3 designs, experiment, take a few thousand photos and go from there. I must say, that "Firsty's" (must have kids..hahah :) table top box with the cool daylights is the "Shizz Nazz" I like's it ! Simple, and easy to move around, without the scary "burn your house down" thingy....
I gotta say, the results were terrific too.

Just bought a number of nice powder blue Daylights from RONA with deflectors, and I'm gonna give them a try. They seem to shed some REALLY, REALLY, nice light and seem to be far, far cooler than any Halogen. I'll post a few pics once I get the first light box up and running.
09/19/2006 04:55:32 PM · #25
here is the frame, the fabric will go on later tonight. I hope.



Message edited by author 2006-09-19 16:58:26.
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