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09/16/2006 12:25:38 AM · #1 |
In the light of the recent releases of the Canon eso 400D and the Pentax K10D I cant wait to see what Canon will release in the form of a 40D camera (if there will be such a thing).
A lot of thought seems to have gone into these consumer based cameras – offering incredible features and value that it makes me think that canon will have to come up with something pretty special to attract the in between market. Especially the Pentax offering – offering a weatherproof body – one of the reasons that people saw as the need to pay that bit extra for a 30D. I think this will be enough to attract many more people to the Pentax camp.
Considering the change from the 20D to the 30D was fairly minor – I think they may have to think fairly deeply to keep this end of the market. They need something for the mid range of the market as the 5D is twice the price
Heres what I think they will have to come up with (what do you think ?)
- 10 or 12 megapixal
- Weatherproofing solid body
- A sensor dust removing sensor
- Shake reduction (probably unlikely considering the IS lenses)
- 5 spf
- Spot metreing
Anything else ?
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09/16/2006 12:33:09 AM · #2 |
Hey, I like the idea of including sunscreen... 5 spf seems a bit weak in these days of weakening ozone layer etc though... ;)
Actually, I suspect that the 40D will come in a year and will include most of those options. I don't see it changing all that much. The 30D is already a pretty serious match for the other cameras in this range.
The reason it didn't change much was that there wasn't all that much that needed to change.
anti-dust is a minor issue for me. I check for dust about once a month and use a blower to control it. I change lenses a fair bit and I'm not all that careful either...
I'm happy with 8 megapixels right now. I don't think I'd go any higher until I was ready to buy a second hand 5D... Don't forget, increasing megapixels does cause other issues.
The Pentax K10D is a very nice camera, but it's a bit of a different animal. At this point, the K10D is the biggest competitor to the Canon 30D in my mind, followed closely by the Nikon D200, but I do feel that Canon still has the lead.
Weatherproofing could be nice I guess, but that's why there is a 1 series...
I don't think they will go with shake reduction. Many pros comment that they prefer the lens based IS over the body-based IS. I don't think there's enough of a difference to get worked up about though personally.
The 30D has spot metering. |
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09/16/2006 12:35:05 AM · #3 |
| 30D isn't weatherproof. I'm not sure what to make of your hypothesis here. There's only a 500 dollar or so price difference between the 350/400D's and the 30D so what in-between market is there to target exactly? The Pentax unit sounds like a fine camera, but I don't know that Canon is sweating losing market share. If they worry about anyone it would probably be Nikon. |
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09/16/2006 12:36:31 AM · #4 |
personally i think the next update is a canon 1 series update. I think they are gonna try and raise the frame rate up to 10 or 12 on the 1D mkIIn and call it the 1d mkIII? seems like the n was added a while ago, and that a lot of sports photographers are wanting more MP on that camera...
anyway just my theory, but im also hoping for that to happen so the price of the 1d mkIIn goes down...hey i can dream
-Dan |
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09/16/2006 12:37:52 AM · #5 |
If Cannon came out with a cheeper full sensor customers would come in floods. Weather proofing aside if they provided a full sensor in the $1000 range it would be lights out for other brands.
Even if they priced one to two hundred above they would totally dominate the market.
But back to the topic and reality, I would say multiple exposure would be nice on that set up you have described. |
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09/16/2006 12:41:54 AM · #6 |
maybe if they do put 10-12 MP on the 40d they would make it a 1.3x crop like the 1 series. Just because theres a certain point where your just cramming pixels into a smaller sensor, an then theres quality issues.
Would love to see a cheap full frame but i dont think its gonna happen anytime soon. Canon is happy with their 5d and 1ds mkII sales. Although with nikon announcing a couple years ago that they arnt going full frame, canon has in a way monopolized te market.
Maybe canon will come out with a medium format? |
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09/16/2006 12:52:28 AM · #7 |
Hey - don't forget we are talking price here as well. The 5D goes for over $4000(Australian) and the 1 series starts at $5000. Most of us - except those pros or someone making a bit of extra cash out of photography, can only dream of these cameras. The 30D (and the Nikon equvialant) are in the $2000 price range. Aside from the consumer camreas, this represents the second biggest slice of the market.
The consumer range keeps creeping up into range of the market - therefore
I think canon will have to think pretty creatively to maintain their lead. Why pay extra for a camera that is $500 or a $1000 dearer that may only offer a few (and getting fewer) features then the consumer range ?
Elliottjms - I agree with you. If they intoduced a full sensor camera in this range it would blow everything else out of the water and they would probably make up the extra cash by everybody upgrading their glass. |
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09/16/2006 12:59:26 AM · #8 |
Canon has stated unofficially several times that their 1.3x crop series has no real future.
The cost for a full frame sensor itself is the biggest reason that there is no $1000 FF cam. The sensor wafer itself costs several times more to manufacture. There was a link to a white paper released by Canon linked in the forums a while back that explained this.
The 5D IS the low-price FF cam that everyone keeps wishing for in the $1000 dollar range. Look at the feature set... not a lot - it's a very bare bones camera. No weatherproofing there either. The vast bulk of the cost of that camera comes from the sensor.
We won't see that changing in the near future either.
My next camera upgrade will probably come from the second hand market. Probably a 5D or 1D Mk II.
Depends how much I use the 5FPS on this bad boy.
I don't really understand why there is so much hubub abotu multiple exposures in-camera. It's going to be a relatively clumsy way to do things and really only has a major application with DPC challenges anyhow. It's a neat toy but....
What might make Canon sweat a bit would be Sigma's D14. If they put out an 8MP foveon with 4FPS and if they use their brains and offer the camera with Nikon/Canon mounts instead of the Sigma mount, they could seriously raise some eyebrows. They still might even with a 6MP.
Details are still pending on that one though.
The last time Sigma put out a camera, it had half of the megapixels (3MP compared to the 300D and D70's 6MP) and it outperformed it in most areas of image quality. |
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09/16/2006 02:57:52 AM · #9 |
Originally posted by I Enjoy Ham:
maybe if they do put 10-12 MP on the 40d they would make it a 1.3x crop like the 1 series. Just because theres a certain point where your just cramming pixels into a smaller sensor, an then theres quality issues. |
Canon already HAS a 1.6x, 10Mp sensor out; it's on the new Rebel...
R.
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09/25/2006 03:55:19 AM · #10 |
I have been shopping the 30D but would opt out for a 40d if it had the 10mp and sensor cleaning plus the 30d improvements.
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09/25/2006 07:53:59 AM · #11 |
Originally posted by eschelar:
Canon has stated unofficially several times that their 1.3x crop series has no real future.
The cost for a full frame sensor itself is the biggest reason that there is no $1000 FF cam. The sensor wafer itself costs several times more to manufacture. There was a link to a white paper released by Canon linked in the forums a while back that explained this.
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Rather interestingly, the white paper itself mentioned that the APS-H (1.3 crop) sensor was the largest unit that could be etched in one pass currently, if I remember correctly. Maybe the 1.3 crop has a little more future yet?
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09/25/2006 09:11:30 AM · #12 |
In my opinion...
The 30D should have had everything the Xti came out with...10 MP and the sensor cleaner. The 400D price point is far stronger than the 30D when you consider 10 MP, sensor cleaner, and same size screen. The 400D is a 30D on steroids for $500 less, minus the FPS rating and strong body.
Canon seems to be selling out the pro's and strong hobbyists so they can sell more cameras to the basic consumers.
And with all that said, I'm still upgrading to a 30D because I just can't stand not having the strong body and I'm tired of looking down the tunnel that they call a viewfinder on the XT(i).
Message edited by author 2006-09-25 09:14:23. |
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09/25/2006 09:18:44 AM · #13 |
Originally posted by KevinG:
....and I'm tired of looking down the tunnel that they call a viewfinder on the XT(i). |
Unless I missed something the 30D will not solve that. This was the biggest issue I had changing from a film SLR to a 20D Canon - The view finder is a small dark tunnel. I didn't see anything to say that was improved with the 30D (5D sure). |
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09/25/2006 09:36:36 AM · #14 |
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09/25/2006 02:44:25 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by robs:
Originally posted by KevinG:
....and I'm tired of looking down the tunnel that they call a viewfinder on the XT(i). |
Unless I missed something the 30D will not solve that. This was the biggest issue I had changing from a film SLR to a 20D Canon - The view finder is a small dark tunnel. I didn't see anything to say that was improved with the 30D (5D sure). |
The 30D has a full frame viewfinder. |
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09/25/2006 03:55:43 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by KevinG:
The 30D has a full frame viewfinder. |
? Urrr, that's a misleading statement... Yes the viewfinder covers the whole view of the 1.6x crop sensor, (well, 98% of it)
But it's not even close to the view you get through a good quality full frame camera (or 35mm film camera.). Moving from film to dSLR a couple of years ago the viewfinder view on cropped cameras was one of the biggest dissapoinments for me.
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09/25/2006 04:13:31 PM · #17 |
| the view through my 5d is way nicer than my 30d but the 30d is a nice step up from the 350xt (at least I remember thinking that) |
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09/25/2006 04:27:10 PM · #18 |
| I would love to see a FF camera with a crop mode using the 5D sensor and cropping to a 1.25x crop (exactly same pixel pitch as 1DmkII) that can do 3fps at FF and at least 5 in crop mode. It won't be called a 40D though and it better be a 1-Series. |
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09/25/2006 04:38:26 PM · #19 |
| I also have some problems with the small viewfinder, mostly since most of the lenses I use are manual. There's a big difference between the viewfinder on my eos 5 and my 350d. |
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09/25/2006 09:28:05 PM · #20 |
| it is full frame in regards to the sensor size of the 30D. It is obviously not as big of a view as a film camera - but very few DSLRS are full frame sensors - so for the most part when talking about DSLRS, the 30D has a full frame viewfinder unlike the XT and XTi. |
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09/25/2006 09:52:57 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by KevinG:
Canon seems to be selling out the pro's and strong hobbyists so they can sell more cameras to the basic consumers. |
Why wouldn't they? Their biggest market is consumer base products. It probably out sales pro stuff 100 to 1.
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09/25/2006 10:20:47 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by NstiG8tr:
Originally posted by KevinG:
Canon seems to be selling out the pro's and strong hobbyists so they can sell more cameras to the basic consumers. |
Why wouldn't they? Their biggest market is consumer base products. It probably out sales pro stuff 100 to 1. |
But there is no reason to give consumers the upgrades the pros need and the consumers don't. Anti-Dust sensor on a consumer cam and not on the pro cam? 10 MP on the consumer cam and not the pro cam? If the pro's don't need the upgrades then who does?
You could conceivably give the pros the upgrades and make the consumer cams even cheaper - consumers don't need all the stuff canon is giving them. And then for canon to upgrade the consumers and charge them $500 less is even more a slap in the face.
Message edited by author 2006-09-25 22:23:01. |
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09/25/2006 10:30:13 PM · #23 |
10MP versus 8.2 is irrelevant.
Anti-dust bs isnext to useless.
Shutter rated at 100,000 clicks, weather resistant body, 5fps, solid build, iso3200, spot metering, faster autofocus, etc, etc - I'll stick with the prosumer version. |
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09/25/2006 10:32:02 PM · #24 |
Because they can get a bigger return on their investment. The consumer market is way bigger than the pro. It's all about the money. And like routerguy says, those upgrades on theXTi are trivial compared to what you get with higher end cameras. I seriously doubt that sensor cleaner is as good as they make it out to be.
Message edited by author 2006-09-25 22:35:44.
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09/25/2006 11:53:28 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by routerguy666:
10MP versus 8.2 is irrelevant.
Anti-dust bs isnext to useless.
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And suppose you is that? It is actually the number one reason why I did NOT buy a 30D. Had it had that feature I'd have been mightily tempted. |
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