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DPChallenge Forums >> Tips, Tricks, and Q&A >> Converting from Raw
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09/06/2006 05:10:30 PM · #1
I am having a problem converting my Raw file to a jpeg..as I notice there is quite a bit of loss in sharpness. I have therefore tried converting from Raw to tiff and find the same thing. Have also tried boosting the sharpness way u in my Raw settings then converting, and then applying an unsharp mask in Photoshop. None of these things seem to be getting me anywhere. In the past I have not noticed a significant difference when converting to jpeg, but for these particular portraits I am converting the loss of sharpness is just too much for me. Can anyone help?
09/06/2006 05:16:58 PM · #2
I'm a bit confused... you've done RAW conversion before, yet this particular set of photos isn't sharp?

Seems a bit odd. How sharp do they look in the RAW converter before you save them as JPEG?
09/06/2006 05:24:42 PM · #3
I think it's just that I've usually only converted landscape type photos and this time it's a close up portrait where it is more noticable. In digital photo professional they look very sharp before I convert.
09/06/2006 05:26:55 PM · #4
In your converter do you have the option set to apply sharpening during conversion?
09/06/2006 05:27:26 PM · #5
I haven't played with DPP for quite some time... what very well may be happening is that DPP is applying sharpening to the preview display. You should be able to find a combination of sharpening during conversion and/or post that gives you similar results.
09/06/2006 05:29:18 PM · #6
are you resizing it at all when you convert?
09/06/2006 05:31:32 PM · #7
In your converter do you have the option set to apply sharpening during conversion?

I can't find any setting like this, where should I look for it?
09/06/2006 05:32:38 PM · #8
are you resizing it at all when you convert?

No
09/06/2006 05:35:41 PM · #9
Originally posted by hudson:

In your converter do you have the option set to apply sharpening during conversion?

I can't find any setting like this, where should I look for it?


DPP, right? If there is such an option in DPP it would be in the conversion dialogue window. I'll look when I get home tonite.

In RawShooter Premium it's on the batch convert window where you just tick a box to apply the sharpening.
09/06/2006 05:37:12 PM · #10
my settings are as follows:

Preview:Speed Priority
Output: Quality Priority

350 dpi
09/06/2006 07:17:55 PM · #11
Ok so i have moved on, can just not figure it out. So it is on to the next problem now. I have decided to convert RAW to tiff and from there save as a photoshop file and make some further adjustments. But when I do this, Photoshop will not allow me to add any adjustment layers, or even make a background copy. I thought this was possible if I saved my tiff file to a psd file. Can anyone help? Oh ya, am using Photoshop 7.0.
09/06/2006 10:59:11 PM · #12
8 bits/channel or 16? I don't think you can edit in PS 7 a 16 bit/channel image.

Message edited by author 2006-09-06 22:59:59.
09/06/2006 11:37:44 PM · #13
If this has just started happening, I would look to the lens. Has it been dropped? Has it always been like this?

Brett
09/07/2006 10:11:59 AM · #14
Originally posted by cpanaioti:

8 bits/channel or 16? I don't think you can edit in PS 7 a 16 bit/channel image.


16 bit tiff...I believe that was the only option I had. When I get home will look to see if there is 8 bit tiff. I guess I don't fully understand the point of tiff. If you can covert from RAW to tiff but can not do anything further with the image what is the point. I heard that you lose a lot of info when saving a jpeg over and over, but not with a tiff. But if you can't alter a tiff image what's the point? I have done all of my adjustments in Raw, but what I need to do now as a tiff or psd file is add a channel mixer layer to convert to black and white, and it's not letting me. Oh well, will have have to think of something else.
09/07/2006 10:14:34 AM · #15
I used PS7 for the longest time. Save RAW as 16 bit tip in external raw app, manipulate all sorts of things in PS7 on the Tiff, convert it to 8 bit if there was some oddball filter I wanted to apply that only worked on 8 but images, resize, save for web. Convert it to 8 bit and see if the channel mixer tool enables.
09/07/2006 10:19:32 AM · #16
Originally posted by KiwiShotz:

If this has just started happening, I would look to the lens. Has it been dropped? Has it always been like this?

Brett


I think I am just noticing the difference in sharpness after I convert because this particular image is a close up portrait, have only really converted wide angle landscapes.
Do you think that the RAW image would still be sharp if there was something wrong with the lens? It has not been dropped. Maybe I will do a test with my 50mm 1.8 and see if I et the same results.
09/07/2006 10:24:49 AM · #17
you can still edit a tiff file the same as a jpeg file. the file when opened in photoshop is still pixels on a canvas... the only difference is the format that it is saved in.
jpeg - a lossy compression that will save your file smaller (but degrade your image)
tiff - a lossless file that will create a larger file size (but there will NOT be any degradation to your image)
NB. If saving in tiff format you can save as "LZW compressed". this will compress your file smaller, but not affect the quality... i save all files this way (other than layered .psd)
Lee
09/07/2006 10:26:19 AM · #18
Originally posted by routerguy666:

I used PS7 for the longest time. Save RAW as 16 bit tip in external raw app, manipulate all sorts of things in PS7 on the Tiff, convert it to 8 bit if there was some oddball filter I wanted to apply that only worked on 8 but images, resize, save for web. Convert it to 8 bit and see if the channel mixer tool enables.


Thanks, I will try when I get home. One question though...if you do convert to tiff and then to 8 bit to add a filter or layer, and then convert back to a tiff for printing, are you lossing any quality?
09/07/2006 10:28:42 AM · #19
Originally posted by hudson:

Originally posted by routerguy666:

I used PS7 for the longest time. Save RAW as 16 bit tip in external raw app, manipulate all sorts of things in PS7 on the Tiff, convert it to 8 bit if there was some oddball filter I wanted to apply that only worked on 8 but images, resize, save for web. Convert it to 8 bit and see if the channel mixer tool enables.


Thanks, I will try when I get home. One question though...if you do convert to tiff and then to 8 bit to add a filter or layer, and then convert back to a tiff for printing, are you lossing any quality?


Tiff is a file format so no conversion is happening in the scenario you present. Tiff is a lossless format so even if you keep saving change after change no quality is lost.
09/07/2006 10:30:21 AM · #20
Originally posted by lahulfman:

you can still edit a tiff file the same as a jpeg file. the file when opened in photoshop is still pixels on a canvas... the only difference is the format that it is saved in.
jpeg - a lossy compression that will save your file smaller (but degrade your image)
tiff - a lossless file that will create a larger file size (but there will NOT be any degradation to your image)
NB. If saving in tiff format you can save as "LZW compressed". this will compress your file smaller, but not affect the quality... i save all files this way (other than layered .psd)
Lee


This is what I thought as well, but all the adjustment layers are greyed out and will not let me pick any of them. I can not even make a background copy if tiff format. I will see if I can save as "LZW compressed" and see if that makes a difference. Have you edited a tiff image before in PS 7? adding ajustment layers? Maybe I need some sort of plugin or updated to be able to do this.
09/07/2006 10:32:36 AM · #21
Originally posted by cpanaioti:

Originally posted by hudson:

Originally posted by routerguy666:

I used PS7 for the longest time. Save RAW as 16 bit tip in external raw app, manipulate all sorts of things in PS7 on the Tiff, convert it to 8 bit if there was some oddball filter I wanted to apply that only worked on 8 but images, resize, save for web. Convert it to 8 bit and see if the channel mixer tool enables.


Thanks, I will try when I get home. One question though...if you do convert to tiff and then to 8 bit to add a filter or layer, and then convert back to a tiff for printing, are you lossing any quality?


Tiff is a file format so no conversion is happening in the scenario you present. Tiff is a lossless format so even if you keep saving change after change no quality is lost.


Ok...that makes sense, thanks.
09/07/2006 10:34:29 AM · #22
Originally posted by hudson:

Originally posted by lahulfman:

you can still edit a tiff file the same as a jpeg file. the file when opened in photoshop is still pixels on a canvas... the only difference is the format that it is saved in.
jpeg - a lossy compression that will save your file smaller (but degrade your image)
tiff - a lossless file that will create a larger file size (but there will NOT be any degradation to your image)
NB. If saving in tiff format you can save as "LZW compressed". this will compress your file smaller, but not affect the quality... i save all files this way (other than layered .psd)
Lee


This is what I thought as well, but all the adjustment layers are greyed out and will not let me pick any of them. I can not even make a background copy if tiff format. I will see if I can save as "LZW compressed" and see if that makes a difference. Have you edited a tiff image before in PS 7? adding ajustment layers? Maybe I need some sort of plugin or updated to be able to do this.


I haven't used PS 7 in a while but from what I recall, it is limited what you can do if the tiff is 16 bits/channel. As an experiment, convert to 8 bits/channel as the first step then see what becomes available. Tiff files can be edited in PS 7. What editing tools are available to you depends on whether 8 or 16 bits/channel. With 8 bits/channel, all options should be available.
09/07/2006 10:35:47 AM · #23
Originally posted by cpanaioti:

Originally posted by hudson:

Originally posted by lahulfman:

you can still edit a tiff file the same as a jpeg file. the file when opened in photoshop is still pixels on a canvas... the only difference is the format that it is saved in.
jpeg - a lossy compression that will save your file smaller (but degrade your image)
tiff - a lossless file that will create a larger file size (but there will NOT be any degradation to your image)
NB. If saving in tiff format you can save as "LZW compressed". this will compress your file smaller, but not affect the quality... i save all files this way (other than layered .psd)
Lee


This is what I thought as well, but all the adjustment layers are greyed out and will not let me pick any of them. I can not even make a background copy if tiff format. I will see if I can save as "LZW compressed" and see if that makes a difference. Have you edited a tiff image before in PS 7? adding ajustment layers? Maybe I need some sort of plugin or updated to be able to do this.


I haven't used PS 7 in a while but from what I recall, it is limited what you can do if the tiff is 16 bits/channel. As an experiment, convert to 8 bits/channel as the first step then see what becomes available. Tiff files can be edited in PS 7. What editing tools are available to you depends on whether 8 or 16 bits/channel. With 8 bits/channel, all options should be available.


Ok thanks, will give it a try.
09/07/2006 10:36:28 AM · #24
Originally posted by cpanaioti:

Originally posted by hudson:

Originally posted by routerguy666:

I used PS7 for the longest time. Save RAW as 16 bit tip in external raw app, manipulate all sorts of things in PS7 on the Tiff, convert it to 8 bit if there was some oddball filter I wanted to apply that only worked on 8 but images, resize, save for web. Convert it to 8 bit and see if the channel mixer tool enables.


Thanks, I will try when I get home. One question though...if you do convert to tiff and then to 8 bit to add a filter or layer, and then convert back to a tiff for printing, are you lossing any quality?


Tiff is a file format so no conversion is happening in the scenario you present. Tiff is a lossless format so even if you keep saving change after change no quality is lost.


Yes if you convert from 16 bit to 8 bit you just walked from half the information in the file so there is some loss. It is minimal but you would have to decide for yourself.
09/07/2006 10:41:35 AM · #25
Originally posted by routerguy666:

Originally posted by cpanaioti:

Originally posted by hudson:

Originally posted by routerguy666:

I used PS7 for the longest time. Save RAW as 16 bit tip in external raw app, manipulate all sorts of things in PS7 on the Tiff, convert it to 8 bit if there was some oddball filter I wanted to apply that only worked on 8 but images, resize, save for web. Convert it to 8 bit and see if the channel mixer tool enables.


Thanks, I will try when I get home. One question though...if you do convert to tiff and then to 8 bit to add a filter or layer, and then convert back to a tiff for printing, are you lossing any quality?


Tiff is a file format so no conversion is happening in the scenario you present. Tiff is a lossless format so even if you keep saving change after change no quality is lost.


Yes if you convert from 16 bit to 8 bit you just walked from half the information in the file so there is some loss. It is minimal but you would have to decide for yourself.


It's not really half since the camera on captures 12 bits/channel. You may notice a slight change in the histogram in some cases. It is best to do as much editing at 16 bits/channel since processing has much more latitude before noticable quality loss. You see more of a difference when converting colour spaces, like Adobe 1998 to sRGB.
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