One exposure equal to one shutter release...

Tamron SP AF 17-50mm f/2.8 Di II LD Aspherical (IF) for Nikon

08/29/2006 06:14:34 PM · #1

Is it time to rephrase the rules? After all most of us do not have the capability to capture three frames in one within the camera. To do this in photoshop is against the rules in both basic and advanced! Is it time to level the playing field again?

Case in point:

Message edited by author 2006-08-29 18:15:22.

zaflabout

Nikon D300

08/29/2006 06:17:51 PM · #2

i agree, i mean if the camera does advanced editing we should be allowed to do it too

PhantomEWO

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

08/29/2006 06:18:05 PM · #3

Great shot and taking nothing away from it because it appears to be legal. BUTttttt I agree, multiple exposures is multiple exposure no matter how you get it. BUTttttt same same argument can be made for cameras that have built in filters and special effects also. Could open a can of words but you are right ... on the single issue of multiple exposure, that is an easy change that should be made. ORrrr heavens forbid allow everyone to do HDR through photoshop to level the field ;)

alanfreed

Nikon D6

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

08/29/2006 06:24:46 PM · #4

Well, you have at least one SC member on your side for this one. I've been thinking of just this issue within the last few days. I like your wording, too, I might add.

Originally posted by TooCool:

Nuzzer

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

08/29/2006 06:27:25 PM · #5

This sort of thing can be done in a single exposure too:

Mick

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

08/29/2006 06:30:12 PM · #6

Originally posted by TooCool:

After all most of us do not have the capability to capture three frames in one within the camera.

You do if your camera can take bulb or even normal long exposures. Simply cover the lens between 'exposures'. It may not be as easy or accurate as having the camera do it for you, but it can be done.

08/29/2006 06:39:17 PM · #7

ok then just limit everyone to the lowest common denominator
you are here by limited to f/4-f/8 1/100-2sec iso 200-400

are we ready to play now ?

go read ""Harrison Bergeron" short story by Kurt Vonnegut

08/29/2006 06:39:18 PM · #8

Originally posted by micknewton:

You do if your camera can take bulb or even normal long exposures. Simply cover the lens between 'exposures'. It may not be as easy or accurate as having the camera do it for you, but it can be done.

But that was not what happened here. There were three shutter releases. By most definitions, that is three exposures...

08/29/2006 06:41:03 PM · #9

Originally posted by ralphnev:

ok then just limit everyone to the lowest common denominator
you are here by limited to f/4-f/8 1/100-2sec iso 200-400

This is close but not quite the same arguement.

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

08/29/2006 06:53:03 PM · #10

Originally posted by TooCool:

Originally posted by ralphnev:
ok then just limit everyone to the lowest common denominator
you are here by limited to f/4-f/8 1/100-2sec iso 200-400

This is close but not quite the same arguement.

the sarcasm was lost

3 exposures all in camera - totally leagle by both rule sets
some cameras have more (and less features)

single exposure / yellow ribbion could have been done in a similar fashion

unless you are proposing we have contests that are limited to specific cameras - there always will be better images / different images

ya for diversity

Mick

Canon EOS-5D

08/29/2006 06:57:53 PM · #11

Originally posted by ralphnev:

ya for diversity

Abaloolie!

cloudsme

Canon EOS R5

Canon RF 100-500mm F4.5-7.1 L IS USM

08/29/2006 07:24:54 PM · #12

I don't think that was an easy picture to take, even with the multiple shutter feature. I see no problem with it. Anyone who wants that feature in their camera is free to get it. I prefer other features, like full frame and high iso. Maybe these are unfair features, but that's the way it goes.

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

08/29/2006 07:29:08 PM · #13

Originally posted by the rules:

Your entry must come from a single photograph, taken during the specified challenge timeframe. You may not combine multiple exposures.

This image was made from three exposures. The sensor plane was exposed to light three times.

Exposure:

Originally posted by www.thefreedictionary.come:

4 a. The act of exposing sensitized photographic film or plate.

Message edited by author 2006-08-29 19:32:42.

violinist123

Canon EOS-6D

08/29/2006 07:31:02 PM · #14

Yeah, I love that shot. But as soon as I read the photog how-to I thought for sure it would be DQ'd for breaking that, rather straightforward, rule. I don't see any exception for combining multiple exposures in camera, it says no multiple exposures period.

Message edited by author 2006-08-29 19:32:34.

cbeller

Nikon D300

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 16-85 f/3.5-5.6G ED VR

08/29/2006 07:31:59 PM · #15

Originally posted by TooCool:

Originally posted by the rules:
Your entry must come from a single photograph, taken during the specified challenge timeframe. You may not combine multiple exposures.

This image was made from three exposures. The sensor plane was exposed to light three times.

Read a little further, TC.

Any modification done inside the digital camera itself is considered acceptable for challenge submission.

Right, wrong, or indifferent...it legal.

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 16-85 f/3.5-5.6G ED VR

08/29/2006 07:33:49 PM · #16

Originally posted by cbeller:

Originally posted by TooCool:

Originally posted by the rules:
Your entry must come from a single photograph, taken during the specified challenge timeframe. You may not combine multiple exposures.

This image was made from three exposures. The sensor plane was exposed to light three times.

Read a little further, TC.

Any modification done inside the digital camera itself is considered acceptable for challenge submission.

Right, wrong, or indifferent...it legal.

In one line it says that multiple exposures are not legal. In another sentence it says that if it's done in camera it's legal even if another lines says it's illegal...

cbeller

Nikon D300

08/29/2006 07:39:18 PM · #17

Originally posted by TooCool:

Originally posted by cbeller:

Originally posted by TooCool:

Originally posted by the rules:
Your entry must come from a single photograph, taken during the specified challenge timeframe. You may not combine multiple exposures.

This image was made from three exposures. The sensor plane was exposed to light three times.

Read a little further, TC.

Any modification done inside the digital camera itself is considered acceptable for challenge submission.

Right, wrong, or indifferent...it legal.

In one line it says that multiple exposures are not legal. In another sentence it says that if it's done in camera it's legal even if another lines says it's illegal...

Is the vagueness (if that's even a word) of the rules here any surprise? It's been the same thing as long as I've been here. This is just the next phase in the debate on what the rules really mean. :-/

Heading back under the rock I crawled out from....

Message edited by author 2006-08-29 19:42:44.

08/29/2006 07:47:06 PM · #18

I just thought of another issue. What does the exif of these multiple images look like? How is it verifiable that all three exposures are taken during the challenge period? Does it show the settings for all three exposures? Who has a D200 and would take one of these multiple images and post the exif data for all to see?

yanko

Carl Zeiss 50mm ZE f/1.4 Planar T for Canon

08/29/2006 07:49:15 PM · #19

Originally posted by cbeller:

Also, the challenge ran under advance editing rules which states,

"You may not post-process your entry from or to include elements of multiple images, multiple exposures, clip art, computer-rendered images, or elements from other photographs"

It doesn't say anything about not being able to do that in-camera. While that shot is legal under the current wording in reality that type of shot shouldn't be allowed, IMO. As far as I'm concern anything done AFTER you click down on the shutter should be considered post processing even if some of that post processing is done in-camera. There's no difference and in the future when more "photoshop" type processing can be done in-camera it's going to make the rules even more illogical.

Message edited by author 2006-08-29 19:50:50.

DrAchoo

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

08/29/2006 07:52:33 PM · #20

While I salivate at the possibilities if I had a camera which could do this, most of the effects can be achieved with some work.

I agree with whomever posted that we should just limit ourselves to limited shutter speeds and apertures. It's the same principle. Sure I'm jealous of the multiple exposure effect when I have to work harder to achieve my fire shot (actually I'm just incredulous that Nikon has a feature Canon doesn't), but what can I say to someone trying to get by with a P&S?

it's just going to get worse. When the 400D comes out how long is it going to be before someone uses the dust mapper in basic and someone else complains about it? The arms race for camera superiority will just continue ad infinitum...

yanko

Carl Zeiss 50mm ZE f/1.4 Planar T for Canon

08/29/2006 07:52:59 PM · #21

Originally posted by PhantomEWO:

ORrrr heavens forbid allow everyone to do HDR through photoshop to level the field ;)

Well you can already fake this to some extent by using just one raw file converted multiple times. I learned this not too long ago even though it flies in the face of what the rules state about multiple exposures.

Elvis_L

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4L USM

08/29/2006 07:53:03 PM · #22

Originally posted by TooCool:

interseting point. I know the final image shows Exif but what if there were pictures used from two months ago?

I don't think this has been done on any images thus far, but with the new D80 doing this also more and more people will have this ability.

08/29/2006 07:53:43 PM · #23

Originally posted by TooCool:

if it was a Multiple Exposure - there is only one image
if it was a Image Overlay - there would be 3 images (and the EXIF says which method was used )