Techniques Exploration Group: B&W High Contrast

Nikon AF-S Zoom-Nikkor 28-70mm f/2.8D IF-ED

07/29/2006 11:28:49 AM · #53

wiki - high key
wiki - low key

Thanks for the comments Jeffrey. Its all so interesting as I really haven't spent much time thinking about lighting. I do it, but I don't think about it as much as I should. Hope that makes sense...

Off to find my zen self...

Gringo

Nikon D2X

07/29/2006 11:33:03 AM · #54

Originally posted by acrotide:

Just wondering if there's a way to get a somewhat high contrast photo out of the camera. Anyone know?

I do take high contrast shots when the lighting will allow for it.

I use the technique to bring attention to the important elements in the photograph. In this one, I was trying to bring out the detail on the dashboard of this old truck, but I wanted to keep the feel of the old truck. Just having a dashboard, could still be interesting, but this is from a series, so it was important to me to show more of the truck.

I usually shoot a series of shots, rolling the shutter speed up or down. I use spot metering mode to pinpoint the area of my interest.

This is a different shot of the same truck, (I didn't have a rolling series for this one). Once I establish the settings, I work to get the best composition. This is what the final result looks like.

Message edited by author 2006-07-29 15:24:40.

cryan

Nikon D700

Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 EX DG Macro for Nikon

07/29/2006 12:12:37 PM · #55

Ok, I'm sorry about this but I don't know how to get a thumbnail when I post to the forums. So with that being said I've got another example of high contrast in my profile, however i must admit I went overboard with it and it looks really funky, but in a good way. I'm not going to get out and shoot this weekend cause I got fixed yesterday and am a bit sore. But I am going to play on the computer while I have the chance to learn some more.

levyj413

Nikon D7100

Tamron SP AF 17-50mm f/2.8 Di II LD Aspherical (IF) for Nikon

07/29/2006 12:21:06 PM · #56

Originally posted by cryan:

Ok, I'm sorry about this but I don't know how to get a thumbnail when I post to the forums.

How to post thumbnails in the forums

moniepenny

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

Canon EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM

07/29/2006 12:22:20 PM · #57

Originally posted by cryan:

To post a picture from your portfolio, copy the number at the end of it's url, then when you hit post reply or new post, there should be five little boxes including bold, italic, a green and blue square, the world, and then a little box in a bigger box, that last one is the one you want to click. Paste your photo number in it and hit enter, type whatever you want after it, and hit post. : )

Or go to the tutorial just posted for a better explanation.

Message edited by author 2006-07-29 12:22:51.

cryan

Nikon D700

Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 EX DG Macro for Nikon

07/29/2006 12:29:15 PM · #58

Ok lets try this. And thanks guys for helping.

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5G IF-ED

07/29/2006 01:07:00 PM · #59

Regarding "keys" vs "contrast":

Basically, a classic high key OR low key shot is relatively low-to-normal contrast, especially high key shots. High key has most of the tones in zone 5 and above, even zone 6 and above, and low key has most of them in zone 4 or below. The "key" of a photograph is not a measure of how much contrast it has per se, but a measure of how the tonalities tend to clump at one extreme or the other. A shot like moniepenny's flowers is more properly labeled low key:

A high contrast shot, on the other hand, or at least an extreme high contrast shot, has most of the tones rendered as either black or white, with few or no middle tones, like acrotide's barn shot:

To a large extent these are artifical distinctions, of course; the image is what it is regardless of the labels we put on it. Nevertheless, here's moniepenny's flowers rendered as "true" extreme high contrast:

I'm not saying this is "better", mind you, because it isn't, at all, but it does show what extreme high contrast is. Trying to shoot images that render meaningfully in true HC is an interesting challenge, not easy at all. Acrotide's barn example shows a shot that has gained a lot through being rendered in extreme high contrast.

Robt.

Message edited by author 2006-07-29 13:10:11.

Jenga

Nikon D300

07/29/2006 03:49:44 PM · #60

Thanks to everyone for their input on this. I use Paintshop,but I suppose the principles are the same (?). This is actually the first time I've used curves - I only have a very very vague idea how levels, curves, and even layers work, and how to use them! I figured it's finally time to stop relying solely on the brightness/contast/satuaration controls to edit my pics!

Before

Curve Used (I desaturated first)

After

dahkota

Canon EOS-7D

07/29/2006 03:57:54 PM · #61

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Thanks Bear!

Jaded_Housewife

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

07/29/2006 07:43:15 PM · #62

not super high contrast must does add to his crazy look more than lower contrast did.

violinist123

Canon EOS-6D

07/29/2006 07:54:45 PM · #63

Two I've been working on.

Happy with:

Not happy with:

Happy for suggestions on either, but the second one has some nice light coming through those windows and I seem to make it disappear everytime I PP the shot, and I can't seem to get as sever a contrast as in the first.

Message edited by author 2006-07-29 19:55:42.

Panasonic Lumix DMC-G85 (Lumix DMC-G80)

07/29/2006 08:28:19 PM · #64

Originally posted by routerguy666:

Two I've been working on.

Happy with:

Not happy with:

Happy for suggestions on either, but the second one has some nice light coming through those windows and I seem to make it disappear everytime I PP the shot, and I can't seem to get as sever a contrast as in the first.

Is this any closer to what you were seeking?

alpharich

Panasonic Lumix G Vario 12-60 mm

07/29/2006 08:29:07 PM · #65

this looks quite cool great to have more learning here!

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

07/29/2006 08:29:35 PM · #66

Originally posted by Jenga:

Interestingly enough, the color version of this is, IMO, an outstanding example of High contrast color photography. The B/W version, while definitely high contrast, is a lot less interesting as an image.

R.

violinist123

Canon EOS-6D

07/29/2006 08:53:40 PM · #67

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Is this any closer to what you were seeking?

R.

Yeah, much better. I didn't use any masking - was that the way to go?

Tamron SP AF 17-50mm f/2.8 Di II LD Aspherical (IF) for Nikon

07/29/2006 11:09:24 PM · #68

Originally posted by routerguy666:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Is this any closer to what you were seeking?

R.

Yeah, much better. I didn't use any masking - was that the way to go?

Yah, repeated passes of contrast masking, with alternate increases/decreases in contrast.

Robt.

levyj413

Nikon D7100

07/30/2006 12:37:41 AM · #69

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

This is terrific information, so thanks!

I've seen other posts where you've mentioned zones. I haven't taken any photography classes, so can you suggest a Web resource for learning the basics of what you mean? I found lots of stuff in Google, but it'd be great to know what YOU think is good info.

Message edited by author 2006-07-30 00:42:15.

07/30/2006 04:46:05 AM · #70

Originally posted by levyj413:

I've seen other posts where you've mentioned zones. I haven't taken any photography classes, so can you suggest a Web resource for learning the basics of what you mean? I found lots of stuff in Google, but it'd be great to know what YOU think is good info.

You can go here and read "history and background" and "what are the zone scales" for a fairly straightforward explanation of what Zone System is and what the different zones represent in practical terms.

You can check out Norman Koren's site for more extensive information, including a rough-and-ready gamma and contrast check-scale to see if your monitor is within parameters. This site is kind of ugly but it seems to have good information. I haven't read it all.

Robt.

Jaded_Housewife

Canon EOS-5D

07/30/2006 06:44:07 AM · #71

Theres a whole lot more to this high contrast thing than I thought. It's starting to seem like more of a science than an art. Somehow that seems creatively stifling. but I have learned alot. :)

07/30/2006 12:27:55 PM · #72

Originally posted by jaded_youth:

Theres a whole lot more to this high contrast thing than I thought. It's starting to seem like more of a science than an art. Somehow that seems creatively stifling. but I have learned alot. :)

I wouldn't worry overmuch about that. In the end, the image is what you make of it and the name you assign to it doesn't matter. It's just that for the purpose of discussion we have to define what high contrast "is", you know?

Let me put it this way: if you assume for the sake of argument that MOST B/W photographs have at least some areas of pure black and pure white in them, and further acknowledge that MOST B/W photographs are NOT high-contrast by any meaningful definition, then it follows that the presence of pure black and pure white in a photograph is not sufficient cause to label it "high contrast" in and of itself.

So we seek out the necessary conditions to apply the label, and we get an interesting breakdown that actually produces some very USEFUL definitions for us:

1. Low Key = an image that is predominately dark, with few (if any) areas rendered brighter than zone 4

2. High Key = an image that is predominately light, with few (if any) areas rendered darker than zone 5 (and most of them zone 6 or above)

3. High Contrast = an image composed mostly of pure black and pure white, with few (if any) areas rendered in intermediate grays

4. Low Contrast = an image composed mostly of middle gray tones, with few (if any) areas darker than zone 4 or lighter than zone 6, and most of them clustered around the same value

Using these definitions, or ones similar anyway, we have a "shared language" we can use to discuss these images. But unless you are shooting in an academic way (you have an "assignment" to shoot an extreme high-contrast photo, for example), the terms are meaningless during the process of creation. High contrast is not "better" than low key, high key is not "better" than low contrast, and so forth; these are just terms we use to define output after the fact so we can discuss it, essentially.

What all this verbiage comes to is; "don't worry about it" :-) If your image works for you, that's all that counts in the end.

R.

Jaded_Housewife

Canon EOS-5D

07/30/2006 08:27:46 PM · #73

I was doing this photo in color for my own family album purposes and decided jsut to see what it looked like in high contrast black and white since I've been following this thread. The results are interesting. the masking I did around my daughter and her favorite barbie wasnt nearly as noticable before I went high contrast. so another thing for you guys to learn/keep in mind is that good post processing and carfeul masking are essential to this type of photo. hope that helps.