Off Toppic.....Amway/Alticor/Quixtar.....

07/21/2006 03:43:57 PM · #1

How do you feel.... i have buddy of mine who is in to this and has gave me info about this kinda of thing. If you dont know what it is, it is were you buy all your daily house hold items online threw this company and you get money back as a % for the Volume your team makes. thats the Jist in a nut shell i read a bunch of my friends stuff and it does not sould like a "Pyramid Scheme". and any ways im still kinda lost about it what do you think...... just trying to start some Con VO....

Message edited by author 2006-07-21 15:46:27.

07/21/2006 03:46:01 PM · #2

Edit::::::::: double post sorry

Message edited by author 2006-07-21 15:46:49.

DjFenzl

07/21/2006 03:50:23 PM · #3

Well it's been years, so things may have changed but I had a roommate that did Amway for while. The problem was he had to bu everything upfront and then resell it. So if he didn't sell it he was stuck with it.

If you really love sales (and I'd say most of it is hard selling) and you're good at door to door kinda sales then you can make some money at it.

Personally I think there are easier ways to make money though...

Fujifilm XC 16-50mm f/3.5-5.6 OIS

07/21/2006 04:04:08 PM · #4

I think its a little bifferent....they way my friend explain it is like just buying all you day to day products that every one has to buy from Tooth paste...shoes...cloths...food....doog food.... and you just buy from them instead of going out and doing it and the more people on your team the more Volume. You can just sell to out side people that dont want to become a Independant Bussness Owner and order for them and tell raise yuo volume.

I think this one is Quixtar and its the sister of Amway....

buzzrock

Fujifilm X-M1

07/21/2006 04:30:01 PM · #5

You will never make a dime unless you get a ton of people under you, doing what your friend is doing to you, trying getting you to join.
All the dvd's, cd's, audio tapes, you have to buy them. They also want you to goto all the training seminars, they dont require it, but say you will never be succesfull if you don't and these weekend trips cost Bucks.

I know one person that actually makes big bucks doing Quixstar (online amway) but he does it with his wife and they have been in "the business" for a really long time..

Remeber its all about getting people under you, then you make money from them and the people that they recruite.

MrEd

Sony DSLR-A100

Sigma 15-30mm f/3.5-4.5 EX Aspherical DG DF for Minolta

07/21/2006 04:31:15 PM · #6

It's a glorified pyramid scam.

redsunphotography

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 II

07/21/2006 04:32:30 PM · #7

So, this is how it goes.

One guy is at the top of it all, and he recruits more and more people. These people recruit people, who recruit people, who recruit people, who recruit people. Every person below another person makes that person money by recruiting, and buying product to sell.

That's a classic legalized pyramid scheme. Like Primerica, Mary Kay, Creative Memories, Herbalife, Isogenix and so on.

It's a legal kind of pyramid scheme, however. I have a friend who does it just to supplement income. He works in an office building for a large corporation, so he makes about 100$ a month with it just having people know he has the catalogue.

Not for me personally, but some people like this stuff. If you are a good salesman you could make some nice money with it.

-Hideo

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 ED

07/21/2006 04:32:37 PM · #8

Originally posted by buzzrock:

I know one person that actually makes big bucks doing Quixstar (online amway) but he does it with his wife and they have been in "the business" for a really long time..

Remeber its all about getting people under you, then you make money from them and the people that they recruite.

So are they Making it pretty good.... i mean i realy just want to make enough to pay the house payment....But are they doing good or breaking even??

BeeCee

Nikon D40

07/21/2006 04:36:18 PM · #9

I have a friend who has been struggling for years, believing the dreams they plant in you, and getting nowhere. Just do a little searching... it seems to be almost a cult, brainwashing and all.
If you just want a source for some good products (and they DO have some good stuff) yes, just don't even THINK about getting rich from it.

eta; Unless, that is, you're willing to alienate everyone you know, by trying to push them to join under you. Because that's the ONLY way to make anything more than a bit of spending money, and it WILL alienate many.

Message edited by author 2006-07-21 16:38:15.

Fujifilm XC 16-50mm f/3.5-5.6 OIS

07/21/2006 04:39:24 PM · #10

Originally posted by redsunphotography:

Well i mean my Job is just a Big Pyramid and im at the bottom. you know so i dont think its a scam... but it sound more li jit than alot of others due to the buying of day to day stuff..... you know

buzzrock

Fujifilm X-M1

07/21/2006 04:40:40 PM · #11

He quit his salary job a few years back, they make Big Money, he drives a lexus, etc,etc.

You know the book of success stories your friend had (Im assuming they showed you something like that), Well I would guess this guy will be one of those Profile Pics soon.

But just like miracle weight loss pills, the success stories you see are not typical, you know..

This guy and his wife put so much time and effort into it, its ridiculous.
And it helps that they are persinant and very charming, they cant make money unless they people that are on their team are succsfull in doing what they are doing to, they just have a knack for picking good people and motivating them to get out and get good people and train them..

Dont be fooled it is a Pyramid, and most people spend alot a bucks, and make nothing back, or next to nothing, but some people do make money.

And it is also a lifestyle, some claim a cult mentallity, I thinks that may be a bit extreme, but its sometimes seems very close..

BeeCee

Nikon D40

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 ED

07/21/2006 04:46:03 PM · #12

Please, PLEASE, google it and read read read! There's a lot of information out there from both sides of the fence. Know what you're getting into before you decide :)

pcody

Canon PowerShot G6

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8

07/21/2006 04:51:46 PM · #13

I was in a different program. It was E'Ola. I made about $500 a month. That was back in 2000. Took me a year to get to that level. If you work the program, you will make some money. The program I was in, and probably Amway is like it, had a quota that had to be made by me personally to get the percentage of the earnings from my downline. So the more successful my downline was, the more I had to sell to qualify.
It became much more than just buying products for my personal use. My sponsor's sponsor ended up having a room full of product that she bought just to qualify for the bonus. Plus we all worked very hard at beng good. We set up conferences, went to trade shows, bridal shows, festivals..paid for toll free phones. You name it. We even had a permanent booth at the largest mall in our area.
In the long run. It wasn't worth it. It was a lot of work/hours for a small amount of money.

MrEd

Sony DSLR-A100

Sigma 15-30mm f/3.5-4.5 EX Aspherical DG DF for Minolta

07/21/2006 04:54:43 PM · #14

Originally posted by Givemeashot:

Originally posted by redsunphotography:
So, this is how it goes.

One guy is at the top of it all, and he recruits more and more people. These people recruit people, who recruit people, who recruit people, who recruit people. Every person below another person makes that person money by recruiting, and buying product to sell.

That's a classic legalized pyramid scheme. Like Primerica, Mary Kay, Creative Memories, Herbalife, Isogenix and so on.

-Hideo

Well i mean my Job is just a Big Pyramid and im at the bottom. you know so i dont think its a scam... but it sound more li jit than alot of others due to the buying of day to day stuff..... you know

I dont mean to burst your bubble. But, you did come here asking for advice. Amway IS a pyramid scheme. Think about it for a second. You make money based on how many people you recruit to 'work' for you (there is another way, but it involves becoming a salesman). The people above you make money based on the money you make AND the money the people below you make. Eventually....if all goes as planned, everyone will be a Amway 'salesperson' and the people at the bottom will have nobody to recruit. And as BeeCee stated.....and I won't debate this part.....there is a sort of brainwashing involved. They call it 'motivational speeches'. How do I know this? At my 10th HS reunion, a classmate asked if I was interested in making money, yadda yadda yadda. Well, I went to see ONE 'motivational speaker'. Never looked back and never regetted it. I gave him some business by buying some stuff from him, but in the end...he realized what 90% of the people realize....you need to be VERY lucky or VERY VERY good.

As for your job being a pyramid and your at the bottom? Unless your in some type of retail (which I've also done)....your manager does not make any extra money based on how many people he 'recruits' (AKA hires).
If you still decide to take this route...I wish you the best of luck.

Edited to add: Did a real quick Google search and found this 1983 interdepartmental memo written from Ed Postma (executive in the Amway Corp.) to Patric Sullivan (now president of Amway PT Indonesia). The ORIGINAL memo was scanned and can be downloaded here. FYI....The Britt/Yager system is the system which determines HOW Amway is to be run.

Message edited by author 2006-07-21 17:05:57.

shamrock

Nikon D300

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D

07/21/2006 06:56:03 PM · #15

Originally posted by Givemeashot:

The folks that made big money in Amway were the ones that started early, before everyone figured out that the only way to make money was to sign up tons of folks, not actually sell the product. I can't imagine that there are too many folks left that are willing to buy into the pyramid schemes. Some of the products were worthwhile, tho a bit expensive and not as easy to get as going to the local market.

saracat

Pentax K10D

Pentax DA 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 AF

07/21/2006 08:31:35 PM · #16

Having actually been through the whole "Amway" thing (via my ex-husband and his family), here's my take on it.

There are essentially two ways of making money through Amway.
The first is to sell products. Amway does indeed have some very nice stuff, and all of their products seem to live up to their advertising (which, IMO, is pretty rare). The problem here, though, is that the products are pretty high-priced, even at your 'wholesale' level, so you have to really jack up the prices to make a profit from it. Startup sales/recruiting kits (which you are REQUIRED to buy - I think my ex-father-in-law was convinced that he had to buy 5 of them to start with) cost about $150 each - and that was 9 years ago.

The other (and potentially much more profitable) way to make money through Amway is to recruit your 'downline'. You make 'commissions' off of both their product sales and off of any recruits they bring in. You get much higher commission from recruiting than you do from sales. Anybody who is in your 'upline' makes commissions off of you and anyone you recruit.

There are problems with all of this. As has beeen noted earlier in the thread, you have to buy training tapes/videos/etc and listen to them almost religiously, and they are not cheap. You pretty much have to attend seminars, which are most definitely not free (anywhere from $100-250 per person and up per seminar). You HAVE to push either product or joining the corporation in order to get anywhere at all, and if you don't, you generally can expect to get lecture after lecture in the guise of 'help from the upline' about your sales/recruiting (or lack thereof).

In a lot of ways, the culture of Amway is very similar to a cult. You are expected to conform to the standards of the Amway Corp in the way that you look (short hair for men, no facial hair, women must be neatly coiffed and wear makeup at all times), dress (suits and dresses much preferred), and behave. If you have friends who do not support your endeavors fully, or who try to urge you to leave Amway, you are strongly encouraged to drop them as they are 'undermining your dreams'. You are expected to buy the corporation dogma hook, line, and sinker. Questioning the corporation's rules/ethics/legality/etc., is a good way to get on their bad side. You are just about required to use their products exclusively (and some of them are quite a bit more expensive than the 'real world' counterparts), unless it is something they do not offer (and the rationale for that is that if you don't believe in the product, you can't be an effective salesperson).

One of the things that really steamed me about Amway, though, is that they expect women to only fill 'support' roles. Encourage and support your husband. Don't help your husband recruit or sell, just stand by and encourage him. If you're married, you're both encouraged to go to the recruiting and sales meetings that you set up with potential buyer or recruits, but only the husband is supposed to do the talking. The wife can agree with him or his statements, or answer questions from the people you go meet, but she is not, repeat NOT, supposed to sell or recruit either with her husband there or on her own (unless she is selling the 'personal products' (makeup, feminine stuff, etc.) to other women). Single women are given slightly more leeway in that they do not have a husband to do the work for them, but that is the ONLY reason they are allowed to do so. Active Amway participants will deny this if asked before you join, but it is stressed quite often and quite clearly in the training tapes and seminars.

And as a cautionary note (if the above wasn't enough), my ex and his family worked at the Amway thing for better than five years. They are now poorer than when they started out, and my ex-father-in-law has gone through some serious financial troubles and depression.

As far as the 'Pyramid Scheme' business goes, Amway will tell you that they are not a 'pyramid' and that they are the only company of its type to have its business structure approved by the federal government (they'll even show you documents to 'prove' it). I think the reason that the gov't did not classify Amway as a pyramid is because they do indeed sell product, and a lot of it. However, the only way to make real $$$$$ through Amway does follow the lines of the pyramid scheme (as was noted earlier).

Some people do indeed make money through Amway. In my little experience with Amway, I met quite a few people who had gotten out of debt and even become independently wealthy through Amway. I also met many many more people who were worse off than when they started, and/or who were fed up with the whole process because they just couldn't get anywhere. And trust me, Amway does NOT like it when you talk to people who have negative things to say about the whole process.

Just throwin gmy two cents' worth in.
Sara

PhilipDyer

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

07/21/2006 08:38:41 PM · #17

Run away. Don't walk, run.

asmithphotos

Nikon D80

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 ED

07/22/2006 02:28:28 AM · #18

i have recently signed up as an independant consultant for Arbonne International. Their business idea is more of a network than a pyramid....The one major difference about Arbonne, is that their business is product driven. The products will sell themselves, and you are the carrier. These products are only available through consultants. Their products are all Natural. If you have tiime to browse, go to www.arbonne.com. If you would like to purchase some of their "Must Have" items, then use my consultant ID 16295477. Or email me if you have any questions. This is a very good way to make extra money. If you are interestead email me at zippochick@bellsouth.net. Arbonne International

taterbug

Nikon D300

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D

07/22/2006 03:31:03 AM · #19

I was a Quixtar IBO for awhile. My nephew 'sponsered' me. I was really into it for awhile, but never gained any momentum and it did nothing in the end but cost me a lot of time, and money. However, it is possible for the right kind of people to experience great 'success', depending of course on what your personal measure of success is. My nephew, for example seems to be on the path to doing well, he's been at it for a little over 3 yrs, I believe. But it seems a shame to me, that he and his wife totally 'live' the Team. They have no time, nor the desire it would seem to have anything to do with any family or prior friends that are not on the Team. The only people outside the Team they have anything to do with, is new contacts that they are trying to sign up. Their life is (besides their real jobs)- contacts, showing the plan to new prospects, weekly open meetings, weekly strategy meetings, monthly seminars, leadership meetings, and the 2 or 3 a year 'Major' seminars. (not to mention the little errands like picking up product, and tapes/cds, books, etc, and delivering to downlines, coaching/advising their downlines, etc. etc. etc.)

It is very understandable and easy to see how one can meet with a good pumped up IBO, have them show you 'the Plan', go to a meeting or two, and get very excited and hopeful about the whole thing, and really get wrapped up in it. Like I said, the right person can make a good go of it, but they have to live it, and they have to 'pitch' to anyone that they can get their attention from for long enough to pitch. A prime example, to me, is the post by asmithphotos (I'm not trying to pick on you at all, honestly), you get the slightest in, no matter where or who, make the pitch! She is probably someone that has a good chance of making it in the business.

I, definitely was not the right kind of person :-) Take another good look at saracats post. She really nails it, I think.

Of course, they will tell you all the 'extra' stuff is optional, but once you get going, they will tell you that although you don't have to, noone is ever successful that is not 'on system' (weekly cd, book, all meetings and seminars). Oh, and don't forget the white shirt and red 'Power' tie! But of course, that's all only if you really do want to be successful.

Oh, and I'll go ahead and let you hear it here, before they tell you- all of us 'negative' people are just 95 percenters trying to keep you down. But like I said, it is possible to do quite well, if you decide on this course, good luck to you. They have some 'teaching' that is based on sound success principles, but as a whole, my measure of success for myself just isn't totally in line with that whole mindset.

Feel free to pm me if you have any specific questions. :-)