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07/19/2006 01:00:05 AM · #1 |
I can't believe this pic did so badly. One comment, couldn't see how it related to progress. If environmental issues are not reflecting progress, and how it has been made in recent years, then I really don't know what planet I live on. Read my excerpt with this pic. Look at the website Monarch Watch. Know that a few years ago in South America, the monarchs were nearly wiped out because of the cutting of their winter grounds. There was no crop, this image was taken just like this. Yeh I understand the harsh light in the background, but it wasn't even in focus so it shouldn't have been an issue. Have you ever tried getting a butterfly to stay still long enough to set up a reflector board to soften the light? The butterfly wasn't in focus? Well, that is just not true. The lines of the butterfly are soft, and this image was one of the sharpest I have taken. I give up. This was my way of trying to get back into challenges, but after this score not even beating my lowest one reflected on my page, I know I cannot do this, I was wrong, I am a fool, and I can never ever see a score above 5.4 again. I had hoped that by taking something pretty, maybe I would see an improvement. I will never improve.
Message edited by author 2006-07-19 01:01:51. |
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07/19/2006 01:08:44 AM · #2 |
A butterfly is progress? Unfortunately, it requires explanation to make the connection. It strikes me as a nice picture of a butterfly, with pretty much no connection to the theme reaching out to grab the viewer. Sorry.
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07/19/2006 01:10:31 AM · #3 |
this photo doesn't say progress, maybe the title implies it, but a butterfly on a plant doesnt say progress, or to be more specific, it doesn't say "environmental issues" which then needs to be translated to progress.
It's not a bad image, it just doesn't fit without the title.
You'll never improve if you stop trying. Don't get so bummed about a DPC challenge anyways, besides it's only one group of people! Go take more photos and don't dwell on the fact that you didn't get a rocking score because it doesn't fit the challenge. Even if you think it does, if it doesn't explicitly convey the message that is the challenge topic to most people, it fails in that aspect.
just go take pictures for fun, not for a bunch people you don't know to critique them! |
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07/19/2006 01:14:09 AM · #4 |
Oh my gosh June.... don't give up. Don't be so hard on yourself. Sometimes you'll connect with the viewers, sometimes you won't. The way I see it ... 125 viewers voted your image above average, 33 of them voted way above average and 4 of them gave it the best score they could give, a 10.
I personally don't see "progress" in the image, and so had I voted in this challenge (which I did not) I probably would have only given it a 5 or 6 for having a pretty image that was not a strong candidate for the challenge.
Now, if it had been a newly emerged from its crysalis monarch spreading its wings... *that* would have gotten a much higher score from me.
Don't give up. Keep shooting. And don't worry that you don't always connect with the viewers. Just relish the fact that sometimes you do...
Message edited by author 2006-07-19 01:17:58. |
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07/19/2006 01:18:27 AM · #5 |
| You have to remember, that what might be obvious to you may not be obvious to the general population. For example, I have never been to the Monarch Watch website (I didn't know it existed til now). I did not know that they were nearly wiped out in South America a few years ago. Heck, around here, they are everywhere. About the most common butterfly you ever see. I can certainly understand your feelings about environmental issues, heck I agree. But IMO, this photo just doesn't convey the idea of environmental issues. |
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07/19/2006 01:19:45 AM · #6 |
| Hey! I felt downright great about my highest score this challenge (my third) with getting a 5.38 in Perspective! Keep goin at it, learning is trial and error. |
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07/19/2006 01:23:39 AM · #7 |
| I felt really discouraged a while ago, with pretty much the same feeling as your thread topic. I decided to give it a while and see how I felt, and I feel like I don't need to give up entering for a while, like I thought I might. But I made a change - I'm going to stay away from doing photoshoots for a while, because it is SO much physical effort for me (I have chronic pain) and therefore the desire to do well in scoring/placement is greater. Maybe you could try something like that - think about if you have a specific thing that is bugging you, that you could take a break from. If there isn't a specific thing, just take a break from (or give up alltogether, but it is hard) the need to get a certain score. Some people do not have a style that fits with the voters but that does not mean their photos are not wonderful. I have looked through your photos a bit and I think they are fantastic! Scoring is just an impersonal number, but if an individual person likes my work, that is a wonderful thing to me. Just keep thinking of the people who have favorited you and your photos and remember that you have touched people's emotions with your photos. You may never "improve" but you CAN continue to bring joy to others through your photography. |
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07/19/2006 01:24:13 AM · #8 |
I felt this way so many times, and she is right. Maybe not to give up, but a break sometimes is good.
Remember your passion, and in someway that butterly changed your life. May sound cheesy, but without having failed at some point what would become of success? |
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07/19/2006 01:29:47 AM · #9 |
| By the Way I just checked what I gave you in voting. I gave your photo a 7, and the first place ribbon a 6. |
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07/19/2006 01:40:28 AM · #10 |
Personally, let's just say there was no title to this shot when it was entered into the Progress challenge...it may have done differently.
Just looking at the Thumbnail (without seeing your title) in this thread I immediately believed it to fit the challenge. However it was not for the reasons of your title.
If a butterfly from a caterpillar isn't progress than I don't know what progress is.
Some time Titles can be our own worst enemy. Most of the time less is more when it comes to titles for our shots.
This is a very nice shot and I believed it to fit the challenge until I opened it and the title threw me for a loop. Had I voted in this one I would have given it the benifit of a doubt but moreso for what a butterfly and progress means to me.
As petrakka stated take pictures and have fun... don't guage your abilities on this site.
ED: Typos
Message edited by author 2006-07-19 01:49:48. |
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07/19/2006 02:00:32 AM · #11 |
Originally posted by awpollard:
If a butterfly from a caterpillar isn't progress than I don't know what progress is.
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That was my take on it. Perhaps you may have done better with a title like "Was once a caterpillar". |
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07/19/2006 02:31:00 AM · #12 |
I learned from an early challenge that the story has to be told by the picture. The title's icing on the cake, not an equal element to telling that story or meeting the challenge subject.
I didn't vote on this challenge, but I would've given you a 4. It's a great shot, and I would be delighted to be able to take something like that.
But I put a lot of emphasis on clearly showing the challenge subject. Otherwise, DPC becomes just a place to display great pictures. I'm frustrated by pretty shots that don't show the challenge subject nearly as well as other pictures.
So I agree 100% with everyone else: don't give up, learn from the experience, and keep taking terrific pictures! |
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07/19/2006 05:04:23 AM · #13 |
I think two things hurt you in the voting
(1) The photo does not scream progress without the title
(2) The camera has focused on the flowers, and the butterfly is a little soft as a result. Macro shots like this have very little depth of field and even a slight breeze moving the subject will put it out of focus. Have a look at this link for an example of a sharply focussed butterfly. I did have to go through quite a few shots before I found one this good - your shot is better than the average but just misses out on being perfectly focussed.
{Edit}
Just had a look at your profile, there is some really nice work in there. Don't let a couple of average scoring images get you down when you can take such great shots! If you had recieved a 3.x you'd have something to worry about. 5.x is a good score...
Message edited by author 2006-07-19 05:22:04. |
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07/19/2006 05:10:11 AM · #14 |
I voted quite highly on this picture, but I can see how people would not associate it with progress. At the end of the day a lot of people are going to vote with their specific criteria in mind, and only the very few will please everyone.
It's better than any shot I've ever taken of a butterfly. |
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07/19/2006 05:37:29 AM · #15 |
Originally posted by ladymonarda:
I can't believe this pic did so badly. |
I left some reasonably detailed comments on the picture during the chalenge. I stand by them ;)
It might help if you filled in some of the technical details on the shot. I don't know if your camera allows manual focus, if so, use it for macro work, it is almost always better than autofocus. When it comes to butterflies not staying still, I feel your pain...I throw something like 10% of my film in the bin due to wobbly/moving/flying away butterflies and dragonflies. Only the best stuff is reserved for exhibitions.
This is something I just read in your profile "it isn't about the scores any longer, it is about my legacy to the town I live in as I depict changes, destruction, and rebuilding of our natural world" and I am with you 100% there.
If you want to talk about macro work, I've got nowhere to go....
Roger |
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07/19/2006 06:09:57 AM · #16 |
Mr. June,
You are a mature man. You should know many voters take the voting very seriously; while others like to bring a very creative picture to the worst level. 14 persons have awarded 1 or 2 marks to the picture. It reflects their mental standard and not of your picture.
Do not feel a pinch, pick up your camera and take the picture for the current submission. You should work for the people who have voted five and more for your picture. No portion of the butterfly is OOF.
Message edited by author 2006-07-19 07:44:03. |
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07/19/2006 08:08:02 AM · #17 |
it really is a beautiful shot and the focus is dead on (i especially love the flowers in the image). the reason it scored low, i believe, is that people felt it didn't meet the challenge-- and for that, I think it actually scored pretty well. put this shot in nature challenge, your score would go up. don't give up. you're on the right track, just be more mindful of things that universally fit challenges if higher scores are what you're going for. you should be proud of that shot, though. :)
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07/19/2006 09:24:31 AM · #18 |
I think it is a great shot too.
I agree that there is something very marginal on the focus that has given rise to the comments: you can see on the flower head that the sharpest point of focus is on the is towards the closest part of the butterfly to us: a millimetre further back, and the butterfly would have been spot on focus. Tiny margins apply in this field of photography.
you may also be reaching the limits of your camera - specialised photography can require specialist equipment. The fine detail that can sometimes be seen in the very best of butterfly shots (itself a "wow" factor) seems to be missing here.
As for meeting the challenge - you must have known it was a bit of a stretch when you typed out that title! Self explanatory images score so much better here.
In the circumstances, I think that you correctly guessed that this was a DPC-friendly image, and a similar image that more clearly met the theme (maybe a white moth against a black background for the b&w challenge) would be a top ten image.
Given that some people do have the specialist equipment required for superb macro shots (and are experts at using it), we are a little spoilt on the site as regards quality of expected macro image - you may find it hard to move from top ten to top three, unless you capture something truly spectacular or unusual. Having said that, I would love to be proven wrong!
Good luck with your next entry!
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07/19/2006 10:19:56 AM · #19 |
| June, I've noticed that for the past month or so, the majority of your posts have been along the lines of "I suck, I'm never going to do well, I should quit forever, I'm hopeless..." etc. etc. Maybe it's time to take a break from the challenges and focus on what you like about photography. DPC isn't the be all and end all of photography and if not scoring to your standards here is enough to make you quit altogether, well...I might suggest you re-evaluate your interest. Go do some fun photography that YOU like and enjoy. And if your number one goal is really to score well on DPC, then work on that using the feedback you're getting. But constantly being down on yourself in the forums isn't going to help anything. |
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07/19/2006 10:55:21 AM · #20 |
June,
I voted this photo a 5. It seemed to me like you took a photo and tried to use the title to make it fit the challenge. When you mentioned Monarch in the title I didn\'t even realize that you were referring to the butterfly. I didn\'t see catepillar to butterfly progress (a cocoon would have displayed that). I just saw a macro shot of a butterfly. And I still gave it a 5 because it was a great shot. It was a wonderful shot actually. I find it hard for me to vote shots that I feel don\'t meet the challenge better than technically sound shots that did meet the challenge. If this had been a macro, nature, or any challenge close to that...this would have been one of my top photos.
And trust me I understand that it\'s hard when you go and take a photo for a particular challenge and the first thing you get is DNMC. Look at my portfolio I have 4 of em. My first challenge scored under 4 in a candid shot because it wasn\'t a person. My flower shot was actually a flower and still scored in the 1 percentile region as did my stationary. And it\'s FRUSTRATING. But you can\'t let DPC discourage you from doing what you enjoy. Otherwise I should have quit after my first entry (and second, and third). I enjoy taking pictures. Whether DPC likes em or not..I enjoy it. And that is the rewarding part. My most rewarding (and highest scoring) photo on DPC was after I went out shooting just for enjoyment, returned to find the straight from camera challenge, and just entered a shot I so happen to take that day.
So don't let a non- 6 score discourage you from shooting or entering the challenges. Just let it keep pushing you to shoot better.
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07/19/2006 11:02:19 AM · #21 |
that's funny. your pic scored higher than my perspective picture and I thought I was doing pretty well. :) I've been giving you high scores in your last few challenges (the ones where you weren't trying to please dpc voters), so I hope you keep playing.
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07/19/2006 11:24:32 AM · #22 |
I have taken a break of a month, and I only entered this one because I decided to keep it to one a month, and knowing what I know about monarchs, I saw it as suiting the challenge perfectly. This was a shot for me, and monarch sightings are rare in these parts. Very rare. Hence my mistaken assumption.
I did look at other butterfly shots that have been taken here, and I really thought this one was definitely above average. I also did apply, and always apply, all that people tell me about dof, focus, saturation, contrast, composition, etc. This wasn't really a macro. My macro function barely works any more. It was actually a zoom. I was 8 feet away from the monarch. So I will take another break. I have been focusing on an area of special concern here in Tolland, (the marsh I live next to) as well as an area that was clear cut last year and will be up for development. Not if I can help it. I am bound and determined to find something there that is either endangered, or possibly exterpiated from the area.
I did enter lines, but only because once again I took a shot for me, and it seemed to suit the challenge. It was not taken specifically with anything in mind, it was an easy shot, took nothing from me, not even timing, and it is hovering around a 6.1 Didn't even have to post process. The pic is pretty much as I took it. It will be the last until another month or two has passed, or maybe more.
As to finding more out about your state and its special concerns, I can show you the Connecticut page which includes maps by county. These are the areas I plan on wandering to over the next month to see the various special concern species and special concern areaa. Not sure if your interested, but I plan on doing up a photo essay, in my spare time, and it gives me a purpose to go take pics.
//dep.state.ct.us/CGNHS/nddb/Nddb2.htm
Message edited by author 2006-07-19 11:42:06. |
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07/19/2006 11:36:39 AM · #23 |
I'm fairly new here. I was attracted by the variation of the pictures around amongst other things.
It seems, upon reading some of the threads, that a few folk get very disheatened when the pics "only" score a 6 or whatever. I think what you may need to remember is that not everyone can score a 10 all the time. If everyone was scoring a 10, then the scale should be adjusted to be out of 20. There's no point in a competition if everyone gets the maximum mark. That's like saying everything is the same and everyone has the same skill and the same taste.
I've voted on four challenges so far, I reckon probably getting on for a thousand pictures. I haven't awarded a single "10" yet, because surely that denotes perfection, and perfection means nothing else is going to be better than that picture. So it'd have to be pretty damn good.
I guess what I'm saying is that there's no reason to get upset over a 5.
FWIW, this pic got an 8 from me. |
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07/19/2006 11:43:44 AM · #24 |
June,
Your butterfly is a good picture and your score doesn't reflect your skills as a photographer. The picture and title didn't connect with most viewers and the challenge topic. Not many people know that Monarch sightings are rare for you and the mission you are on. Many voters will vote down if you use the title to explain the picture.
How could your picture have been improved? A bit more focus on the butterfly would help. But what would have made that emotional connection for me would have been to see that butterfly sitting in an industrial area, a dump, or someplace without flowers or nature. Or perhaps even a dead butterfly in one of those areas (found, not killed for DPC). That would demonstrate what we are doing to the environment in the name of progress. A good picture with the flower and green doesn't show that the habitats are endangered.
Good luck and keep shooting. |
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07/19/2006 02:30:11 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by ladymonarda:
This was a shot for me.... |
Then why let it bother you what other people think? I've posted some unedited snapshots of my new son for me and couldn't care less what the community thought about the quality of them. I just wanted to show off my baby - similar to the way you wanted to show off your butterfly.
Personally, I thought you got a couple of good comments on this image. The butterfly, while beautiful, is too soft to get a high placement at DPC. The voters here need sharpness to dish out high scores and this shot didn't have it.
You received many helpful comments, none of which are marked as such. I'd take the time to listen to some of these people as it will do nothing but help your photography. You might also want to check out this thread. Some good comments in there about what's more important - shooting for yourself or for score.
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