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07/10/2006 09:17:28 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by OdysseyF22:
Reading stuff like this only reinforces my distrust of cops in any form. |
That statement really bothers me. Stuff like this makes bigger news stories than all the good stuff. My dad is a cop. In fact, he's in narcotics. He is without a doubt the coolest guy on the planet. I have lost count of the stolen cars recovered and the meth labs taken down on his watch. The guys I grew up around were some of the best people I ever had the privilege to know. There are bad seeds in every profession, but the bad seeds make more noise than the good ones, and law enforcement tends to be a high profile occupation.
As Otis said, he slowed down in a bad neighborhood and had the misfortune of looking the part. Had he actually stopped and started snapping pictures, he might have been approached with questions but probably would have been left alone. Unfortunately it looked like he was scanning the corner for his dealer. He looked suspicious. Junkies are undoubtedly about a thousand times more common than scruffy looking photographers in a neighborhood where the story sounds far-fetched, and besides, in that neighborhood anything nice, like a DSLR, gets equated to drug money.
The search was illegal unless he consented, which it doesn't sound like he did. In fact, he couldn't legally pull him over without some kind of probable cause (even a broken taillight will do), so if he was pulled over solely on suspicion that he was looking for his dealer then that was a big no-no as well. The incident is definitely worth a call to the department if he can identify the officer in question. Even if he can identify the neighborhood the Ft. Lauderdale fuzz should be able to figure out who was working there that day. Bad cops will continue to be bad cops unless they are turned in.
Message edited by author 2006-07-10 21:21:21.
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07/10/2006 09:22:34 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by otisXmike:
Originally posted by colyla:
I would have been LIVID...I probably would have went to jail. |
That's pretty much the reason I played along... that and he looks like he was probably good friends with his nightstick. |
I wanna get beat down :-) I could use the money ...heehee
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07/10/2006 09:25:05 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Originally posted by otisXmike:
Originally posted by colyla:
I would have been LIVID...I probably would have went to jail. |
That's pretty much the reason I played along... that and he looks like he was probably good friends with his nightstick. |
I wanna get beat down :-) I could use the money ...heehee |
now I think of that... that would make that 5d much easier to get! |
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07/10/2006 09:30:50 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
wanna get beat down :-) I could use the money ...heehee |
As someome who has been falsely arrested, I can assure you you do not want to get 'beat down.' I was beaten down and then some and believe me you do not want to experience that. Hopes of lawsuit notwithstanding since most times you will lose. It is no fun being shoved to the ground, especially when you are totally compliant and not resisting at all, and getting the crap kicked out of you by an angry cop. And depending on circumstances, even the littlest thing can be justified as 'just cause.' All I did was ask if I could smoke a cigarette and after being refused complained, thatr was enough apparently.
BTW - I lost in court.
Message edited by author 2006-07-10 21:32:58. |
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07/10/2006 09:35:20 PM · #30 |
So Mike looks the part and looked suspicious. It's called profiling. The cop didn't find anything and let him go. Which is good. Yes, the cop was wrong for doing a search. Maybe the next guy is not so innocent. And then the cop is a hero.
I have friends that are cops, and I don't blame them for assuming everyone is a criminal, because as soon as they let their guard down, they're dead.
But then it's sad that our society is becoming a bunch of paranoid and suspicious wimps.
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07/10/2006 09:37:16 PM · #31 |
 
Yo homey! I know you had the dimebag shoved in your pants!
...man, despite the low score, I'm getting a ton of mileage out of this shot.
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07/10/2006 09:40:10 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by lepidus:
But then it's sad that our society is becoming a bunch of paranoid and suspicious wimps. |
?? I would hardly call anyone wimps for doing what I did. Had I handled it like I may have just a few years ago, I would probably be in jail right now hiding from bubba in the corner in hopes of keeping my man virginity...
Message edited by author 2006-07-10 21:44:17. |
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07/10/2006 09:43:31 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by otisXmike:
Originally posted by lepidus:
But then it's sad that our society is becoming a bunch of paranoid and suspicious wimps. |
?? |
I mean, everyone is paranoid. Cops stopping photogs all the time. I live right next to the playground in my complex and if I even look at the kids, the parents are giving me dirty looks.
No no no Mike, I didn't mean you!
Message edited by author 2006-07-10 21:46:16. |
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07/10/2006 09:44:22 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by lepidus:
I have friends that are cops, and I don't blame them for assuming everyone is a criminal, because as soon as they let their guard down, they're dead.
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I have friends who are active and retired from one force or another. It is a tough job no matter which way you look at it and to have to make decisions and snap judgments on the spot is not easy - especially under pressure which every vehicle stop is - they never know. Sure I would like to see things a bit different, but overall I don't complain. They are putting their lives on the line with every person they approach. Gotta be a hard life. I give them all my kudos, even when I am on the wrong or alleged wrong end.
Message edited by author 2006-07-10 21:46:12. |
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07/10/2006 09:46:00 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by lepidus:
Originally posted by otisXmike:
Originally posted by lepidus:
But then it's sad that our society is becoming a bunch of paranoid and suspicious wimps. |
?? |
I mean, everyone is paranoid. Cops stopping photogs all the time. I live right next to the playground in my complex and if I even look at the kids, the parents are giving me dirty looks. |
ah... yea, now I understand. I stay completely away from kids and playgrounds... and will always! |
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07/10/2006 09:46:16 PM · #36 |
Sometimes it pays to be a not-particularly-noteworthy middle-aged short non-descript white chick.
:-) |
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07/10/2006 09:46:29 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
...man, despite the low score, I'm getting a ton of mileage out of this shot. |
hmmm.. I dunno doc, is a fun shot, but I don't think anyone would profile you...lol
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07/10/2006 10:02:53 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
hmmm.. I dunno doc, is a fun shot, but I don't think anyone would profile you...lol |
The "stupid" police?
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07/10/2006 10:03:35 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by otisXmike:
Originally posted by annasense:
Holy crap, Mike! I'm so glad you made it out okay! I, too, often print out the challenge page and take it with me when I go out shooting. I've never been stopped (I look innocent enough), but I will be prepared the day I do. I'm too chicken for something like this, and I've heard too many horror stories about crooked cops. Good job for biting your lip, it does sound like he would have been more than happy to show you "who's boss." I don't trust cops... sad, but true. Didja get a good picture of the backseat of the squad car? ;) |
wasn't even shooting for a challenge, just for my 1-a-day. Maybe I need to start looking a little more innocent... I mean come on, would you trust this guy?? LOL . I'm not really going to change, I have toned it down alot over the past 10 years though.... |
...you damn hellions and yer lowriding vehicles...you're not so scary, but that's just me...you actually have skin on your arms that isn't covered with ink...
; } |
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07/10/2006 10:09:16 PM · #40 |
oooooh, that makes me mad! you should have nailed him! i would have asked him his full name and his badge number, and if he didn't leave me alone after that, i would hav nailed him for no search warrant or probable cause! if it didn't work, he would have at least been squirming...
i'm glad he did let you off, though. he could have just cited the patriot act and carted you off...
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07/10/2006 10:18:01 PM · #41 |
Looks like you need a refresher on your rights, man.
Here's a 45 minute video that'll help you in the future hehehe I know it's long, but it's good information
Seriously, you do not have to consent to a search, and they cannot arrest you for not consenting.
I was tricked by cops a lot in my life, and then I realized that what they do is intimidate and manipulate with words.
And hey, if you didn't have anything on you (for real) then you should've given him a LOT of shit for violating your rights.
Now, if you DID have something on you (like I always did) then....yeah. Well... heheh
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07/10/2006 10:18:08 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by TomFoolery:
I feel like an outcaste too when people...many times they have been police...ask me what I am taking photos of...and when I show them dead leaves...cracked sidewalks...building facades…and just huge array of random things "normal people" don't take photos of...they don't quite believe what I am saying. I don't know but I feel it will become more and more difficult to take photos out in public away from the "everyday" photographer with their disposables and camera phones. I pretty sure things will not be getting any better anytime soon.
Clint |
tell the cops you don't have to show them your photos unless you took them on private property.
Originally posted by otisxmike:
uld you trust this guy?? LOL 351366.jpg. I'm not really going to change, I have toned it down alot over the past 10 years though....
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try to nab him for steroetyping on top of no warrant or probable cause AND harrassment
EDIT: sorry, your posts (tomfoolery and otisxmike) really got me going, so i did both of these posts before reading other responses, so some stuff is repeated
Message edited by author 2006-07-10 22:28:37.
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07/10/2006 11:00:22 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by RKT:
you actually have skin on your arms that isn't covered with ink...
; } |
Probably wouldn't be the case if I could actually make up my mind on what I'd like there! You seen the pics of my wife im my portfolio? in Misc?
Originally posted by RKT:
you're not so scary, but that's just me... } |
Nope I'm not... :)
Message edited by author 2006-07-10 23:04:47. |
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07/10/2006 11:09:02 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by kdkaboom:
Seriously, you do not have to consent to a search, and they cannot arrest you for not consenting.
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well... I didn't consent. I wasn't given the option. I didn't resist being put in his car, but like I said...
Originally posted by otisXmike:
I would probably be in jail right now hiding from bubba in the corner in hopes of keeping my man virginity... |
and I'm glad I still have that, and no ammount of lawsuit money is going to give me that back!
Message edited by author 2006-07-10 23:10:46. |
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07/10/2006 11:17:21 PM · #45 |
It is good that you where polite, I mean if there is private property or no trespassing signs then its a big no no...
They are protecting us and doing their job.
There was a string of fires of about 15 churches in Alabama not long ago.
There has also been tons of breakins with damaging property and theft here in our area. So they have the right to be suspicious..
Be prepared and carry a card with you about your photography, it could help you get a job or someone will need a photographer for something,,you never know....
Anyways I just wanted to share this so here it goes..
//members.lycos.co.uk/dansegypsy/police.htm
I had a business card that I can't seem to find for a law firm I think..
On the back it had a really simple version of what I am going to post from a site that you can take a look at as some more good stuff for your rights..
At the bottom of the card the last statement was
Ask this "If there is nothing else that you need to hold me here for then may I be on my way?"
TREAT THE COP LIKE YOU WANT TO BE TREATED YOURSELF
When stopped or you encounter a police officer, be polite and civil. Ask what the problem is. You don't want to batter a good cop! By avoiding adversarial relationships further problems are avoided before needless issues are raised. If you are adversarial with a bad cop you might end up in the hospital, charged with resisting arrest, if you live! Be careful
As bad cops are control freaks and will use even an accidental “bumping up against” you as an excuse to charge you with assault on a police officer and resisting arrest, as well as justification for the use of force. Be careful and keep your hands in view at all times, telling the cop you are going to reach into your pockets for your license, as you might risk getting shot. Avoid any sudden moves with your hands for the same reason and remain calm, as being agitated will cause some cops to arrest you for interfering or worse. Be cool and careful!
MOTOR VEHICLE AND STREET STOPS
If driving, provide your drivers license, registration and insurance card in a motor vehicle stop. Your ID is no longer your private right under some conditions, as cops have gotten laws passed in some states that allow them to check the ID's of innocent passengers, often used abusively by some departments. Openly state several; times “I don’t consent to any search of this vehicle or myself,” if they attempt to search. State you are being detained against your will as well. Make sure witnesses hear you say these things. The officer must have your permission to check your ID in many cases unless you are being arrested or ticketed. Once the police get your ID they can and will run a warrant check. If an error in the computer system brings up a warrant or ticket expect to be arrested. If you are walking down the street you might decide to give your name to the officer, but don’t volunteer anything else.
Ask what the problem is. The officer must truthfully state the reason for the stop. A failure to do so is a violation of the rights of everyone in the involved, and can constitute possible grounds for a claim of false arrest, as well as criminal charges of unlawful restraint and kidnapping. You may be asked to step out of the vehicle, searched and cuffed only if the officer has legitimate grounds, not because of some fabrication. Some corrupt officers plant drugs and other "evidence" during this time, steal your valuables and destroy your driver’s license, so be aware of these possibilities.
If the cop insists on a search hand him the keys and repeat that the detention and search are without your consent. This will cause much evidence to be thrown out in court in many cases. The cop can’t search your pockets unless they have truthful cause to suspect a weapon. Even a pat down search can open a cop up to charges. Never consent to a search but state openly “This search is without my consent.”
Abuse of minorities remains common with corrupt officers, although much improved compared to just a decade ago. Your vehicle can only be searched with your permission unless a legitimate arrest is being made, actual probable cause exists, or legitimate evidence of illegal activity is in plain sight. Any illegal search can make the officer liable under state and federal laws for serious legal action. Any evidence is most likely inadmissible in court as well. Consult an attorney right away if you, or your vehicle searched, or your ID checked under any unusual circumstances.
As of 1 October 1999, racial profile stops are illegal in Connecticut. North Carolina has a similar law on the books. If you are stopped, and this law was violated, the officer can be arrested.
Your best defense is to have witnesses with you in case a "plant" is attempted. You do not have to tell the officer your private business for being out in any public area. That is your legal right. The most you should tell any officer is the fact you were on your way to the pharmacy or the like, if you choose. Beyond that silence is golden. The officers might attempt to separate your party to get someone to talk. Again silence is golden. Don't give a crooked cop a break. The cop must prove himself to you to gain your cooperation. In this regard you are in command, not the cop. The cop is under limits of authority; compel the officer to earn your trust and obey the law.
Be advised that many officers now have cameras installed in their cars, which record on videotape, complete with sound. Don't try to get cute! If you play your cards right, the tape can serve as your evidence against a crooked cop.
Since the motor vehicle stop is full of high risk for injury to the officer, never use force or threats, even if you are right and the cop is clearly abusive! This will most likely place you at high risk to be shot or serious injured, or falsely arrested! The use of fatal force against a police officer is legal for excessive force or false arrest, but you must be able to prove it. It is generally ill advised, unless the cop is intent on killing you at which point you have nothing left to loose. There has been an increase of police use of unwarranted fatal force with obvious lack of action against bad cops, in recent years here in the USA. Bad cops cover for each other, so stay alive to testify. The wrongful touching or misuse of force is a crime for which you can later prosecute. There is nothing a cop fears more than criminal or civil litigation. In the long run it is your best defense, although slow. If filed correctly, the career of the bad cop is in extreme jeopardy!
ON YOUR PROPERTY
Your property is your castle. The police can only enter without your permission with a valid arrest warrant, valid search warrant, or in certain emergencies such as hot pursuit with legitimate probable cause. Otherwise the police are trespassers. If the cops enter your property for any reason, call your lawyer. File for the arrest of the violators. Don't give permission for anything. Some cops will try to pressure you telling you subtle things that make you think you are a "prime suspect," and ask you to sign a "waiver" for permission to search. Once you have signed they will then tell you the technical warning you have the right to "refuse." Just don't sign anything without a lawyer present.
There is a growing problem of the abuse of arrest warrants. Under the law if a cop has a valid reason to believe a person wanted on a legitimate warrant is on a property, they can enter to arrest that person named in the warrant. What is happening due to the new emphasis by John Ashcroft in “preventing crime” is the erosion of civil rights by slow and subtle means. Bad cops are making up any reason at all to get into a house or building to circumvent the constitutional safeguards that protect citizens. Rogue cops are now using arrest warrants to “go fishing” and “toss” a place, entering with drawn guns. The practice is such that any friend or relative might get raided such as what I hear happening in Miami Beach and Dade County. These rogue cops will threaten families with all sorts of legal action if they fail to provide certain information the police demand. Often they refuse to let anyone see the warrant, which is illegal. They will often conduct illegal searches well beyond the warrant they claim to have, and arrest anyone for anything “incidentally found.” Remember, you don’t have to talk, and can sue for abuses of your rights! These kind of cops will often pick on minority poor people with little education knowing it’s hard to fight back. If this happens call The American Civil Liberties Union!
Message edited by author 2006-07-10 23:18:27.
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07/10/2006 11:23:05 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Originally posted by otisXmike:
He goes back to my truck and spends the next 10-15 minutes going through everything to try to find some drugs or any kind of sign of them. I'm not too nervous cause I know there's no reason to be... but you never know if you're going to get a crooked cop planting something.
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I'm no lawyer, but I don't believe he had any right to search your truck without some sort of warrant or visible paraphenial (sp).
Originally posted by otisXmike:
He says that he can't find anything and I must have hid it really well, and he has to let me go.
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Obviously he doesn't believe much in the court system. "Innocent until proven guilty." |
Being in a "drug neighborhood" in a tricked out truck probably qualified as probable cause in his mind... And probable cause is all they need in order to perform a search without a warrant. |
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07/10/2006 11:37:32 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by otisXmike:
Originally posted by lepidus:
But then it's sad that our society is becoming a bunch of paranoid and suspicious wimps. |
?? I would hardly call anyone wimps for doing what I did. Had I handled it like I may have just a few years ago, I would probably be in jail right now hiding from bubba in the corner in hopes of keeping my man virginity... |
lol!
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07/10/2006 11:39:13 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by otisXmike:
You seen the pics of my wife im my portfolio? in Misc?
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ehem... Nope ;-)
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07/10/2006 11:52:05 PM · #49 |
| Yikes... if you can, I'd talk to a lawyer to make sure your rights weren't violated. Him and his force will be in a whole lot of trouble if they were. |
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07/10/2006 11:53:29 PM · #50 |
My guess is you'll end up doing what 99.9% of everyone else would do. Forget it and get on with your life.
No matter what anyone writes or says they will do, people do not want to become tied down with lengthy time consuming and costly litigation.
Even if you were financially able and had nothing better to do with your time.... you would be surprised by the number of people that end up on juries that believe the police should have the right to search with or without warrant and with or without cause. Most people believe that you wouldn't have been stopped and searched if you weren't doing something wrong. Also the policeman probably is well respected. Think for a few minutes about how many drug dealers and abusers he's likely to catch using these methods. The community would likely stand behind him.
Message edited by author 2006-07-10 23:54:31. |
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