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07/07/2006 09:47:55 AM · #1
I think one of the bigest problems I have with these challenges. IS that people do not understand that certain things are done on purpose.

over exposed, underexposed, DOF, lower/higher sat, and so on.

Next to filling out I DID THIS ON PURPOSE on the title, what can I do?

Yes, I know, in the little text box about the image... but you don't see that during the challenge so it doesn't matter if it is written there.

Basicly, Im thinking... If people Understood that I did it for a reason. That I know I did it and controled the effect I wanted, that maybe my scores wouldn't suck at the bottom of the pit like they do. And I wouldn't get the comments telling me

Its a little Over/Under Exposted/saturated, the DOF is off and so on and so forth.

My techniques are what are hurting my images. But, that is how I wanted the image to look and how i controled it to look that way with a certain effect.

Does anyone else have this problem? Or am I the lone wolf here?
07/07/2006 09:51:29 AM · #2
Trust me....you are not alone. As you will see in countless other threads of similiar nature...the problem isn't just with the technique...its with the subject and the storyline of the image...the list can go on and on.

We all get it...and we all get sick of it at times.

But guess what.

Life goes on...and next week it will be someone else copping it.

So get the anger out and then take that anger and put it to good use...come back with a great image that will knock everyones socks off. LOL!!

So chin up...it will be okay.
07/07/2006 09:54:58 AM · #3
Thanx Judi...

But, not really angry about it. Just more of bummed and disapointed that more people are not 'artists' with photography, they are just techniqual geeks for lack of a better expression.

Just shows me more and more, that I don't belong on the site. Think it would have gotten through my head by now.. but I kept tryin.
07/07/2006 09:55:46 AM · #4
I have the same problem. Folks just don't seem to realise that my OOF, underexposed, oversaturated, tilted, poorly composed, badly cropped, stupidly edited shots are done intentionally.

I'm an ARTIST I tell ya!
07/07/2006 10:02:25 AM · #5
Originally posted by Qiki:

I have the same problem. Folks just don't seem to realise that my OOF, underexposed, oversaturated, tilted, poorly composed, badly cropped, stupidly edited shots are done intentionally.

I'm an ARTIST I tell ya!


LOL..you is funny!

Seriously thought littlegett....others have said this before...but treat DPC as a client...it helps you to see things from angles you might not have realised before. You can still incorporate your art...but with better results. Does that make sense?

07/07/2006 10:02:50 AM · #6
Originally posted by Qiki:

I have the same problem. Folks just don't seem to realise that my OOF, underexposed, oversaturated, tilted, poorly composed, badly cropped, stupidly edited shots are done intentionally.

I'm an ARTIST I tell ya!


This is what bums me. Why do you have to be a Dork about it.

Poor Composition is poor composition, no matter how 'artistic' you may be. Bad crops are not bad crop, just differnt perspective which is subjective.

Less of course you are talking about my images spesificly, than leave a comment, or comment here and tell me what is poorly composed and such.

Don't be such a quik witted dimwitt about it.
07/07/2006 10:03:15 AM · #7
No, you are not alone. Unfortunately, the dp challenge is not like a face-to-face critique or a show where the photographer's intentions can be explained.

My advice is not to worry about scores or comments.
07/07/2006 10:06:15 AM · #8
Originally posted by Judi:



Seriously thought littlegett....others have said this before...but treat DPC as a client...it helps you to see things from angles you might not have realised before. You can still incorporate your art...but with better results. Does that make sense?


Not really, because I have no idea what the client wants. I have looked at ribbon winners in the past, and they have images I complete don't care for, and have no understanding why they won. Its all subjective yes... but, it doesn't help.


07/07/2006 10:06:35 AM · #9
No, you're defenitely not the only one. I understand exactly what you mean and I feel the same way with my shots. There are things that I wish I could have done differently according to some comments, but overall, the idea that I originally had is now captured by the viewers.

A photograph is like a painting. Some people have a great gift in naming the photograph in a way that makes the viewer see the photograph in a totally different way, a positive way. But it doesn't always work out that way. DPChallenge is an excellent website, but you can't fully control what people see.

As a viewer, in order to rate a photograph, you can't just see it and rate it and move on (because they see that 300+ photographs were submitted and just want to get through them quickly). You HAVE to take your time viewing each photograph, like a painting. You have to study it. Then, successfully rate it for what it's worth. Also, some viewers have more likings to a certain style of photograph, and if they don't see that style in a photograph, they give it a low score. Which, in my opinion, isn't really fair, but oh well.

As a photographer, you can't please everyone. You just have to capture that moment the way you see it and as creatively as possible title it and submit it. Oh, and hope for the best. All in all, I feel that the best thing I get out of the challenges is great practice and confidence. Exercise my skills to make them better.
07/07/2006 10:12:15 AM · #10
you said you looked at what the past winners did and don't care for it. I would agree in many accounts, but that is what DPC as a whole wants. if you want high scores do stuff like that, if you want people to see your art (which in my opinion is the best thing about this site) then do what YOU want and forget about the scores. I have gotten several bad votes on things that i did on purpose but those are the breaks. art is subjective and yours may be out of the mainstream. I personlly liked your Murder shot alot and 25 people gave it an 8 or higher. I (and I assume those others) like horror and stuff like that so it fit my taste. many here don't like that type of stuff. isn't it worth the lower votes to know that at least 26 people "got it" and really dug your art?

Message edited by author 2006-07-07 10:14:27.
07/07/2006 10:15:53 AM · #11
Originally posted by Elvis_L:

isn't it worth the lower votes to know that at least 26 people "got it" and really dug your art?


Excellent point, Elvis_L!
07/07/2006 10:20:14 AM · #12
<Personal oppinion>

DPChallenge (excuse me if this makes some people mad) is not the right place for art IF you want to score high.
The way to score high is to please most people, and to please most people you need to follow the DPChallenge unwritten rules.

There are at least 2 kinds of people here on DPC.
The mis-understood artists, dont appeal to the masses but are exceptional photographers.
And the people who shoot for ribbons. (And there are also some exceptional photographer among them)

I am the last kind. (I mean I am shooting for high scores, I am NOT an exceptional photographer) If I want to do art, I go somewhere else.

Not saying that you cant put art on DPChallenge offcourse, but I just know that it almost never score as good.

So be happy with your art. Be happy with the comments you get from people that "get" it, but also be happy with the lower score.
If you want a higher score then let go of the art and shoot what everybody else does and what you know scores high.

</Personal oppinion>

Message edited by author 2006-07-07 10:23:21.
07/07/2006 10:26:29 AM · #13
you'll find there are some discerning people here. if you stick to your guns, you'll start collecting favorites. I also created an "out of the box" award but I'm having trouble getting it off the ground, possibly because more people are interested in saying why their own pictures are misunderstood masterpieces than in finding the great underrated works of others.

but scores going up? I've got three pictures on my homepage right now, and I'm quite happy with all 3. They have the "look" I was going for. And all 3 are scoring well under 5. Quite a few voters at DPC vote solely based on what makes a "good photograph," not realizing that photography exists within the context of visual art and cannot be separated from that context except by the use of completely arbitrary "rules" of aesthetics, which vary from voter to voter but on the whole are extremely limited.
07/07/2006 10:33:35 AM · #14
Flowers
Votes: 152
Views: 200
Avg Vote: 5.3
Comments: 9

Would be nice to be higher.. but im cool with this. Has some purposely done effects... but, least its average which is my best scorer thus far.

--------------------------
Straight from the Camera
Votes: 155
Views: 203
Avg Vote: 4.8
Comments: 4

Again would nice to be higher... but im cool with this one too.

-------------------------

Stationary
Votes: 127
Views: 154
Avg Vote: 3.8898
Comments: 1

This is the one that really gets me. I 'thought' I had a really great image here. One I would be Proud to hang on my wall.

Yet, no one here really likes it. If they do, they are not speaking up. and won't know the breakdown until its over. The comment was on one of my purposely done effects.

---------------------------------

But like you said. I want art, i go elsewhere. I want a digital pixel.. i conform to the system, and personaly I don't care for the system. The images what win.. are ones I personaly wouldn't enter, because I wouldn't be happey with them.

so... I have a while to decied what I want to do.. once my sub runs out. But so far.. its looking like I won't stick around. I have my websites to deal with and stuff.



07/07/2006 10:39:03 AM · #15
But like its said. All depends on what I want.

and I guess im not really getting what I want.
07/07/2006 10:42:35 AM · #16
When I vote and/or comment, I am doing it with the presumption that it looks exactly like the photog wanted it to.

Still doesn't mean I'm going to like it or think it is good. :)
07/07/2006 10:45:35 AM · #17
I think there's something glorious about scoring under 4 without purposely trying to score low. It's in the Romantic tradition, after all, to be utterly misunderstood.

It's those flat 5 shots that depress me.
07/07/2006 10:48:10 AM · #18
If what you want is for people to see your art and maybe buy your art then what better place. several hundred people will see your photos each week. if they like what they see then they can go to your profile and then maybe go to your website and perhaps buy a print. DPC is the best valued marketing system on the web for photographs. sure some people may vote it down but do you think every person that drives by a billboard likes what they are showing? you gain fans of your art by showing it to many people. sure you may be able to have a one day gallery where 15 people come and all love your work but the numbers say that you will gain more fans by showing it to more people and perhaps get better in the process.
07/07/2006 10:49:34 AM · #19
Originally posted by posthumous:

I think there's something glorious about scoring under 4 without purposely trying to score low. It's in the Romantic tradition, after all, to be utterly misunderstood.

It's those flat 5 shots that depress me.


I would agree. my motion blur scored way low and now I get to say that "people just didn't get it" but if it was a 5.1 I would think that it wasn't any good :)
07/07/2006 10:49:39 AM · #20
Doing something on purpose is great, however, if someone is commenting that the DOF is too shallow or something is overexposed could mean that what was done purposely is not working for the image presented.

You don't have to agree with every comment you get but each comment can be used to learn something.
07/07/2006 10:52:18 AM · #21
I am not sure I agree that art cannot do well on DPC. Do voters really have a shot pop up, say to themselves "that's art--I'll give it a 3"? I have scored art shots from 1 to 10, depending on how they meet the challenge and their effect on me. Just because you (anyone) deliberately overexposes,underexposes, crops a certain way, etc. does not mean it is a good shot.

I disagree that bad composition is bad composition, but a crop shows perspective. Art is in the eye of the beholder, and I think people should try to create what they want. Nobody likes every piece of art just because it is art, individual taste is always present. However, if your style of art never scores well it is probably safe to assume that most of the voters don't like that style. You then have a choice: create art that pleases you or change your style for the challenges and put your art in your portfolio.
07/07/2006 10:54:01 AM · #22
I set a shot up and know why I had to shoot it like that...usually something is right off the screen that would not have looked good in the photo. I think this biggest thing is people want to say something...they may like your shot...or not, but they really don't just want to say "Great Shot" so they seek out something "wrong" with it that they can enlighten you about. When I read my comments and see one of these I can usually explain why I did what I did out loud in a few seconds...I don't send them a message (That will make matters worse...then people start screaming they don't know why they waste time commenting when people get angry at them) So if I can explain it easy then I don't let the comment effect me and move on with my day...if the comment can't be explained and brings something to my attention then I will find out if I really could have fixed it...and if so those are the comments I take head of and try and become a better photographer by. You have to weed through them all...because there are some great comments given that will unlock certain things in your head...and then the rest just might be a boneheaded response to shoot more like they would have then it would have been an awesome shot...well you didn't shoot it so stop trying to make all photos look like something you would have shot with the comments you leave...alright I better shut-up before I get steamed up too much and make someone mad themselves.

Clint

07/07/2006 10:55:19 AM · #23
Originally posted by littlegett:

I think one of the bigest problems I have with these challenges. IS that people do not understand that certain things are done on purpose.

over exposed, underexposed, DOF, lower/higher sat, and so on.

Next to filling out I DID THIS ON PURPOSE on the title, what can I do?


When I vote and comment, I am giving my opinion, nothing else. I state what I like, what doesn't work for me, and how I think it could be improved. I suspect many others vote in the same fashion.

Whether certain things are done on purpose doesn't matter that much - it's how it's received. The last two days I've been voting on Flowers. There are quite a few pictures that are oversaturated and overexposed (again in my opinion). I don't care if it was done on purpose or not, it will get the same vote from me. Sometimes these purposeful things work for me, most times they don't.

So that leaves us the choice of appealing to the masses for a high score, or doing what we want and connecting with a much smaller group. I currently have 3 pictures entered. I have a PB at around 6.5 and the others are around 6.0 and 5.1. While I like all 3, the 6.5 was the most frustrating to shoot and I didn't have much fun. The 6.0 was fun to shoot and I like how it turned out. The 5.1 was a bit frustrating, but I know the difficulty in capturing the moment and entered it knowing I would get a low score.

Here's the summary:
6.5 - not fun, learned, entered mainly for score
6.0 - fun, learned, really like shot
5.1 - some fun, learned, entered to "see what happens" and connect with a handful of people.

I hope my example helps.
07/07/2006 11:06:06 AM · #24
its all about appeal. The crowd I show my images to, obviously share my intrests, so they like my images.

Than posting same images here, there is clearly a very diffrent group of people with differnt intrests, and a very small part of this crowd may like my work.

But, all in all it still doesn't help me to understand, why some.. not all or even most, but why a few of my images does so poorly.

But, I guess that will just remain a mystery. Kinda like How many Licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie roll tootsie pop... Dustin Hoffman. or something like that.

Like I said, I have a while before my sub is up. and just figure out what I want to do between then and now.

maybe Be more active on the boards... hmmm. that normaly gets me in trouble though, little to opinionated and blantantly honest for most people.

Message edited by author 2006-07-07 11:06:25.
07/07/2006 11:11:52 AM · #25

I was invited to a show opening of a local Photographer this morning -
one of the Artists collection of pieces is called "Moving By" - a series of images that looks like landscapes taken from cars -

all of them would get brown ribbons here (& in my eyes, blurry smudges of color)
but still can be shown (& Appreciated) in a gallery ...

in the eye of the beholder ...
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