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DPChallenge Forums >> Challenge Results >> Dissappointed...on two counts.
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06/28/2006 11:21:00 AM · #1
Well...first this bokeh challenge really was quite something. I learned two things....Im not ever going to enter a bokeh challenge, and Im not ever going to vote on one again. lmao! Okay, I'll prolly eat those words if it ever comes up again. But really... I voted on all of them, and I left comments for some and it really was tough.

Im by no means a professional, and youll soon see the photos to prove this is true, but I did my best, giving my opinion and whenever possible, giving a suggestion.

Well, there was a photo which I absolutely *loved*, but I didnt think it fit the challenge. That affected the score I gave, but it didnt stop me from gushing cause I genuinely liked the photo. And I got reamed out for it by the photographer. Not just me, but a couple others too and unfortunately, now I dont like the picture so much anymore.

Anyway, these two challenges were my first time voting/commenting, and it was interesting to go back over them and see what others said and ho they voted in comparison to me. All things considered, I dont think I did so badly...but I noticed with a lot of pics, it was kind of like trying to find something nice to say so that no feelings were hurt sort of thing...like a really dark grainy photo, cant tell what is what, with a comment "wow! great shot!"

Personally, I want my photos ripped apart...if it looks like crappola from a can, tell me, if you cant think of something nice to say, thats cool...it doesnt have to be nice...just an honest opinion. If you dont think it fits the challenge, lemme know! If I want my ego stroked, Ill show my daughter my pic, she thinks everything I do is great! haha... but if Im going to challenge myself to do any better from one pic to the next, the only way Ill learn is from hearing what other people think.

Not saying people should be mean or that Im a glutton for punishment...I dont think I was mean in my comments at all...just give an honest opinion is all! *sigh*

I just wrote way too much for someone who hasnt submitted a photo yet. Hah! Speaking of which...My second cause for disappointment... I stayed out later than I expected last night and though I did a mad dash home to make it in time, I was 1 minute late in submitting my photo for glass. *tears* I wont wait last minute again, thats for sure!
06/28/2006 11:31:22 AM · #2
You can please some people some of the time,
you can insult most people most of the time,
but to inspire few people a few times is a great thing.

Keep commenting, but mostly, don't ever wait the last minute to submit to a challenge.

Like a professor told me once in college, last minute work looks like a consumption of time, where work that took time is consuming.

In other words, the more time you take with a vision, the better. Last minute entries are just crap.

Regards.
06/28/2006 11:38:37 AM · #3
Damn, Horse... I didn't know you were a poet! Some great phrases there.
06/28/2006 11:38:40 AM · #4
You know what? I for one appreciate more people who say their mind over only making brown nosing comments that do nothing other than inflating one´s ego.

However, I can understand that some people won´t take your comments seriously as you haven´t entered a challenge yet and frankly I am guilty of that too. Honestly, I know I shouldn´t but sometimes when I get comments that I disagree with, I look at the persons profile who made the comment and if their work unimpresses me, I just let it flow in one ear, out the other and mark the comment as helpful, just thinking to myself, "what does he/she know anyway, hehe" :) I suspect some people just can´t let that go though and have to lash out, I was like that one time too so I understand it...

My suggestion is, just get it over with and enter a challenge :) It´s fun and before you know it, you´ll have 100+ challenges under your belt and hopefully a handful of ribbons to boot.
06/28/2006 11:41:18 AM · #5
Originally posted by Telehubbie:

Damn, Horse... I didn't know you were a poet! Some great phrases there.

You're right!
Originally posted by American_Horse:

Last minute entries are just crap.
06/28/2006 11:44:48 AM · #6
Originally posted by GeneralE:


You're right!
Originally posted by American_Horse:

Last minute entries are just crap.


Well that´s usually true but I don´t really agree 100%, three of my ribbons, "Apple", "Take Two" and "Jump" were taken after 10:00 pm on the last submission day. I did however spend better part of the week thinking about those shots and how I would make them work, so I definately agree on the "take your time" part :)

Message edited by author 2006-06-28 11:45:30.
06/28/2006 11:45:24 AM · #7
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by Telehubbie:

Damn, Horse... I didn't know you were a poet! Some great phrases there.

You're right!
Originally posted by American_Horse:

Last minute entries are just crap.


Well, I wasn't really referring to that one as being poetic, but that one has some truth too! :-)
06/28/2006 11:46:07 AM · #8
Originally posted by Dragn:

... Well, there was a photo which I absolutely *loved*, but I didnt think it fit the challenge. That affected the score I gave, but it didnt stop me from gushing cause I genuinely liked the photo. And I got reamed out for it by the photographer. Not just me, but a couple others too and unfortunately, now I dont like the picture so much anymore. ...
I think I found the one you're talking about and I tend to agree with your point of view. That photog was out of line to say what he did. Please keep on commenting as you have been.

Bokeh was a very difficult concept for many of us to understand, shoot and score. I'm glad I was able to get a satisfactory shot for 30 Seconds or More, lol.
06/28/2006 11:47:46 AM · #9
Wow Horse, you sound like the wise man on the top of a hill somewhere :o) Thanks for that, and yes...its probably all for the best that I was 1 min late with my entry...to spare myself and the voters as well...!! Im getting started on the new challenge right away!

I totally understand what you mean Larus...I was apprehensive as to doing any voting/commenting at all, but then I decided why not. I dont feel too off base about my comments though, since I saw others said/saw some of the same things I did...the worst (?) of it was there were a few that I thought were great shots and voted high, but they came out closer to the bottom, but theres werent any that I voted lower that came out on top.

Anyway...pictures pictures pictures...gotta get my entries in, do a half decent job, and gain some respect from those I leave a vote/comment for..hehe.

06/28/2006 11:49:47 AM · #10
Originally posted by Larus:

You know what? I for one appreciate more people who say their mind over only making brown nosing comments that do nothing other than inflating one´s ego.

However, I can understand that some people won´t take your comments seriously as you haven´t entered a challenge yet and frankly I am guilty of that too. Honestly, I know I shouldn´t but sometimes when I get comments that I disagree with, I look at the persons profile who made the comment and if their work unimpresses me, I just let it flow in one ear, out the other and mark the comment as helpful, just thinking to myself, "what does he/she know anyway, hehe" :) I suspect some people just can´t let that go though and have to lash out, I was like that one time too so I understand it...



I agree with all of this. I saw what you were talking about Dragn and I would have made a similar comment if i had commented. not everyone will like the same things. some people don't take negative comments that well. It happens, just don't stop commenting. Larus is right about checking someone's profile but the reverse is often true. when I get a good comment from someone I respect (especially one I know doesn't sugarcoat everything) it means that much more. when entering a challenge don't be disappointed if your score is not good because if you make one person gush or smile or cry then wasn't it worth it?

My motion blur entry is sucking bad because i did a type of blur that many may not understand but if just a few people realize how absolutly baddass it is then it is worth the brown ribbon I may be getting:P
06/28/2006 11:52:16 AM · #11
Originally posted by Larus:

Originally posted by GeneralE:


You're right!
Originally posted by American_Horse:

Last minute entries are just crap.


Well that´s usually true but I don´t really agree 100% ...

I was trying to be (mostly) humorous at Telehubbie's expense ... though as in all humor, it's the element of truth at its core which makes it funny. I felt a right to speak on the matter, as perhaps the site's most frequent practitioner of the last-minute entry ... : )

Besides, though DPC seems to represent a small deviation in the overall space-time continuum, I'm a believer in the general applicability of Sturgeon's Law: 90% of everything is c***.
06/28/2006 11:54:13 AM · #12
You folks might be interested in this thread as well.
06/28/2006 11:57:50 AM · #13
Originally posted by Larus:


However, I can understand that some people won´t take your comments seriously as you haven´t entered a challenge yet and frankly I am guilty of that too. Honestly, I know I shouldn´t but sometimes when I get comments that I disagree with, I look at the persons profile who made the comment and if their work unimpresses me, I just let it flow in one ear, out the other and mark the comment as helpful, just thinking to myself, "what does he/she know anyway, hehe" :) I suspect some people just can´t let that go though and have to lash out, I was like that one time too so I understand it...


I tend to be guilty of that, too. Then, every once in a while, I get an insightful, thought provoking comment from someone who has never entered a challenge (Thanks elvia). It helps me to keep my perspective.

Dragn,
I think you'll find that being on this site forces you to go through "The 5 Stages of Grief".
Denial
Anger
Bargaining
Depression
Acceptance

I've been hanging out here for over 3 years and only just came through the other side. Just be true to your soul and forget about the rest:)

Message edited by author 2006-06-28 11:58:48.
06/28/2006 11:58:22 AM · #14
Keep on commenting!
I noticed that for a lot of your Bokeh comments you mentioned that the background was supposed to be blurred. However, there was some debate and confusion about that since the challenge description was a bit unclear:
Description
Loosely defined, bokeh is the quality and "feel" of the out-of-focus foreground or background elements of a photo. It isn't very interesting by itself, but take a photograph whose subject is enhanced by the bokeh of the background. (emphasis mine)
06/28/2006 12:01:39 PM · #15
Originally posted by Dragn:


Well, there was a photo which I absolutely *loved*, but I didnt think it fit the challenge. That affected the score I gave, but it didnt stop me from gushing cause I genuinely liked the photo. And I got reamed out for it by the photographer. Not just me, but a couple others too and unfortunately, now I dont like the picture so much anymore.


I saw that too.

To be honest, I think you got a taste of a tricky situation...

The guy who took that shot is listed as shooting a Hasselblad digital... You might find that that right there is a major reason that you took some flak on your comment...

As with any word, 'bokeh' has different meanings to different people...

Recent forum threads on the word have revealed two distinct camps on the subject. Those that feel that the strict meaning of 'fuzzy' or 'out of the field of focus' is their definition and they will stick to it, and those that feel that bokeh is a quality of the OOF area...

As with many controversies, there's always a group of people that will stick to their definitions of right and wrong... and although we view this from a close perspective, we also have to realize that we ourselves may occasionally take this position... There's a ton of stuff I 'know' is true, but others 'know' is false... and vice versa...

The best way to deal with this is to 'let it slide'.

No sense in stressing yourself about something if it doesn't matter and you can't do anything about it...

That photographer can also choose to either get upset about his comments or deal with them...

Truthfully, I don't really feel that he got too excited... I don't really see his responses as 'blasting' anyone... He was strong and obviously a little upset/disappointed/passionate about the situation with his pic. He made four comments on his pic that were direct responses to four comments...

Originally posted by H1D Dude to Dragn:

What do you mean "not bokeh"? There is very little in the shot but bokeh, actually. Translated from Japanese, bokeh means "fuzzy", that is the fuzzy rendition of out of focus elements. Here you see both front and back bokeh.


If you consider that 'getting reamed out', then I would indeed suggest thickening up that skin of yours... Nothing there to really get worked up about... He's just explaining that his definition of bokeh differs from that which you expressed in your comment. He wasn't particularly polite about it, but wasn't definitively impolite either...

FWIW, I find that his pic does little for my personal aesthetic sense... His DOF is TOO shallow IMHO as it detracts from the overall sense of flow... I didn't care much for the lines either as an abstract. I feel that he used the abstract presentation as a bit of an excuse to cut corners on that one... His other Flower macro is considerably better, but doesn't suit my personal taste for use of DOF in flower macros... Just personal taste of course.

To be honest, I did raise my eyebrow a bit when I noticed that he shoots an H1D, but doesn't shoot it as his main camera, and owns no lenses for it... If this is true, it's more than likely to be a work camera... However, on his own time, he shoots a cheap D50 with a few bargain 3rd party lenses... Not saying that you can't make good pics with those lenses, just raises my eyebrow... That might also have something to do with the way he has received his comments...

Not to worry though, as The Equestrious One said, focus on your own images...

You are bound to get a bit of static now and again... It's the internet after all...
06/28/2006 12:10:21 PM · #16
Dragn, your comments didn't follow what the challenge description stated... (Which could be why you were harshly spoken to.)

The challenge stated this: Loosely defined, bokeh is the quality and "feel" of the out-of-focus foreground or background elements of a photo. It isn't very interesting by itself, but take a photograph whose subject is enhanced by the bokeh of the background.

Your comments were talking about how foreground stuff shouldn't have been out of focus. Well, that was part of the challenge description.

06/28/2006 12:14:10 PM · #17
Originally posted by Nelzie:

Dragn, your comments didn't follow what the challenge description stated... (Which could be why you were harshly spoken to.)

The challenge stated this: Loosely defined, bokeh is the quality and "feel" of the out-of-focus foreground or background elements of a photo. It isn't very interesting by itself, but take a photograph whose subject is enhanced by the bokeh of the background.

Your comments were talking about how foreground stuff shouldn't have been out of focus. Well, that was part of the challenge description.

The challenge description said it both ways; once as foreground or background, and then the next sentence as background.
06/28/2006 12:19:56 PM · #18
Yup, for sure the whole uprising behind the definition of bokeh cant be ignored...for the most part, no matter my own interpretation, I just looked at a pic and figured, if theres a background and an emphasized subject, cool. :\

Unfortunately eschelar, I have *no* idea what a Hasselblad digital is! So it looks like im going to have to do some research to understand what you mean about that camera and my comment about the pic.

And its true, I wasnt reamed, but I guess it was just the overall tone reading the responses to those who commented. It didnt make me upset, just made me feel blah and bummed about having said anything at all, even though I really did like the pic and wanted to say so. But I didnt score high because of the fact I didnt think it was bokeh, and it didnt seem right to compliment, and then score low without at least giving a reason why.
06/28/2006 12:25:13 PM · #19
Originally posted by Dragn:

And its true, I wasnt reamed, but I guess it was just the overall tone reading the responses to those who commented. It didnt make me upset, just made me feel blah and bummed about having said anything at all, even though I really did like the pic and wanted to say so. But I didnt score high because of the fact I didnt think it was bokeh, and it didnt seem right to compliment, and then score low without at least giving a reason why.


You'll soon find that there will be people to complain no matter what you do. If you don't comment, someone will complain. If you comment and they don't agree, someone will complain. If the challenge is too broad, someone will complain. If the challenge is too narrow, someone will complain. If you deduct points for not meeting the challenge, someone will complain. If you don't deduct points for not meeting the challenge, someone will complain. Sometimes the complaining gets to be overwhelming and it's difficult to see that under all that noise is a site full of people who are grateful for any effort that people make to look at, vote on or comment on their photos and that it really is worth it, even through the spells of blahs and bummedness. :)
06/28/2006 12:25:45 PM · #20
Originally posted by Dragn:

It didnt make me upset, just made me feel blah and bummed about having said anything at all, even though I really did like the pic and wanted to say so.

well, I hope you continue to do exactly as you're doing. It amazes me that some people complain about getting comments.
06/28/2006 12:28:07 PM · #21
Originally posted by Dragn:


Unfortunately eschelar, I have *no* idea what a Hasselblad digital is! So it looks like im going to have to do some research to understand what you mean about that camera and my comment about the pic.



this is a newer model of the camera in question but as you can see it isn't cheap!
06/28/2006 12:35:21 PM · #22
Originally posted by Nelzie:

Dragn, your comments didn't follow what the challenge description stated... (Which could be why you were harshly spoken to.)

The challenge stated this: Loosely defined, bokeh is the quality and "feel" of the out-of-focus foreground or background elements of a photo. It isn't very interesting by itself, but take a photograph whose subject is enhanced by the bokeh of the background.

Your comments were talking about how foreground stuff shouldn't have been out of focus. Well, that was part of the challenge description.


And see...when I read the challenge description, it seemed the first part was describing what bokeh is, and the second part was the directions for the challenge, "take a photograph whose subject is enhanced by the bokeh of the background."

I really dont want to beat this to death though, cause it really seems there was already so much confusion around bokeh itself. My thing was really more about the commenting process...
06/28/2006 12:36:06 PM · #23
Originally posted by greatandsmall:

[quote=Larus]

Dragn,
I think you'll find that being on this site forces you to go through "The 5 Stages of Grief".
Denial
Anger
Bargaining
Depression
Acceptance



Elizabeth K. Roth is a great inspiration. Not limited to death, grief can be harnessed in many forms, especially in recieving and responding to comments.
06/28/2006 12:37:12 PM · #24
Originally posted by Dragn:

I have *no* idea what a Hasselblad digital is!


The only thing that you probably need to know is its price: more than many people's annual salary!

Developing a thick skin as regards how comments are made and received is a good trick here (and in life!). Your comments were marked useful by most others, so don't sweat it.

06/28/2006 12:39:54 PM · #25
Originally posted by mk:

You'll soon find that there will be people to complain no matter what you do. If you don't comment, someone will complain. If you comment and they don't agree, someone will complain. If the challenge is too broad, someone will complain. If the challenge is too narrow, someone will complain. If you deduct points for not meeting the challenge, someone will complain. If you don't deduct points for not meeting the challenge, someone will complain. Sometimes the complaining gets to be overwhelming and it's difficult to see that under all that noise is a site full of people who are grateful for any effort that people make to look at, vote on or comment on their photos and that it really is worth it, even through the spells of blahs and bummedness. :)


Hehe...I see your point! I dont feel so blah anymore... Ohhh! and I have to say too, I did get a PM from someone who thanked me for taking the time to comment on thier pic, so it is true what you say about those who apprciate it :)
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