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DPChallenge Forums >> Challenge Results >> First I Got DQ'ed from a ribbon, Now What?
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06/18/2006 01:22:01 PM · #1
The ORIGINAL shot of my DQ'ed ribbon winning entry for recent Single Light Source competition is now at my portfolio.

Due to my 7 days vacation in New York, I was not able to e-mail the original shot in 48 hours and I got DQ'ed.

Photography for me is an art. It is not just about all bunch of technical mambo jambo. I usually get paid and give workshops to teach how I shoot.

I joined the DP Challenge to see the reaction and the comments of the viewers like you. For me this place is not about to win or loose cyber ribbons.

I will no longer enter challenges here. This is for me a simple principle. The rules are not welcoming newcomers who might not be aware of all the rules adopted by your "DP consul" here.

Since I already paid a membership, I will however upload from time to time new stuff to my porfolio.

I would love to hear your comments. Don't be shy. Even if you might hate an image, just let me know and tell me why. I am not a snob. (smiles)

Regards,

Hera

PS: As a fully paid member I get this message now when I simply want to look at your current challenges.

"You have been suspended from this portion of the site through 06/24/2006 for the following reason:"

However no reasons mentioned.

In what kind of world are we living? May I ask?

If this is the DP ways & rules , please credit me back for my $25.00 membership fee.
06/18/2006 01:28:24 PM · #2
In all fairness, the rules ARE posted and are not simply adopted by the Council but by every participant of the site. You check a box when you enter that says you've read the rules. If you have difficulty understanding them, people in the forums or the Site Council are always willing to help. If you choose not to obey the "technical mambo jambo," then you're probably right, DPC contests are not the place for you. You're still welcome to post your shots in the forums (non-challenge related) and ask for feedback.

Regarding the suspension, I suspect it has something to do with this...

Originally posted by rules:


# In order to discourage repeated disqualifications and abuse of the disqualification system, the following penalties will apply for repeat disqualifications:
# 1st DQ in last 25 submissions: No penalty
# 2nd DQ in last 25 submissions: 1 week suspension of submission privileges
# 3rd DQ in last 25 submissions: 2 week suspension of submission privileges
# 4th DQ in last 25 submissions: 4 week suspension of submission privileges and 3 months of required "pre-submission" of proof file.


06/18/2006 01:32:12 PM · #3
once SC, always SC :P
06/18/2006 01:37:26 PM · #4
Originally posted by Rikki:

once SC, always SC :P


I was thinking the exact same thing Rikki! :)
06/18/2006 01:38:21 PM · #5
Originally posted by Rikki:

once SC, always SC :P


Just the facts. Doesn't matter the role.
06/18/2006 01:39:37 PM · #6
I don't think these sink to the level of "technical mumbo-jumbo":

• Yes, this photograph was taken with a digital camera on or between _____ and _____.
• If requested, I will provide the unedited, original file from my digital camera within 48 hours.
• Yes, I have followed the applicable editing rules taking into account any extra rules listed above.


Each of these statements must have a box checked by the photographer in order to submit to a challenge. Each statement has an active link to the applicable additional information (rules, etc.).

If your goal is to get feedback on your images and the ribbons don't matter, well, why does it matter?

Message edited by author 2006-06-18 13:40:26.
06/18/2006 01:41:17 PM · #7
Hi Rikki,

Pardon my ignorence, what SC stands for? I guess I should go and learn all the internet lingo. (smiles)

Dear mk,

Thanks for your kind clairification. The rules rule the site. This has become quite clear to me after one month of membership here.

I have always supplied the technical mambo jumbo the first day I have entered any competition here. This doesn't bother me.

I guess I should have never enter any competition and possibly win anything if I will travel and be away from my image original files. That 48 hours rule will always make my work DQ'ed.

That was my first mistake. I got punished for it. I feel I am in a kindergarden. Oh Well, c'est la vie as they say.

Have a great Sunday. And Happy Father's day to all the gentalmen here.

Cheers,

Hera

06/18/2006 01:43:09 PM · #8
SC = Site Council = volunteers who help the site owners administer the rules. Look under the Help > About menu link to see who we are.
06/18/2006 01:44:35 PM · #9
Originally posted by Photopromo:

Hi Rikki,

Pardon my ignorence, what SC stands for? I guess I should go and learn all the internet lingo. (smiles)

Dear mk,

Thanks for your kind clairification. The rules rule the site. This has become quite clear to me after one month of membership here.

I have always supplied the technical mambo jumbo the first day I have entered any competition here. This doesn't bother me.

I guess I should have never enter any competition and possibly win anything if I will travel and be away from my image original files. That 48 hours rule will always make my work DQ'ed.

That was my first mistake. I got punished for it. I feel I am in a kindergarden. Oh Well, c'est la vie as they say.

Have a great Sunday. And Happy Father's day to all the gentalmen here.

Cheers,

Hera


Should you ever decide to enter again, if you're going to be away during the challenge, you can submit proof ahead of time by clicking on the your image on the voting page and clicking on the link to request validation. You can submit your original there and the SC will hang on to it in case they need it.

Don't worry about the "punishment." Happens to lots of people here. We won't shun you. ;)
06/18/2006 01:45:53 PM · #10
Originally posted by Photopromo:

Have a great Sunday. And Happy Father's day to all the gentalmen here.

Cheers,

Hera

Thank you. There is a mechanism by which you can pre-submit an original if you are going to be away, in case there's a validation request -- submit a ticket via the Help > Contact menu, and attach your original image, along with an explanation of your travel plans and all editing information about your entry.

PS: this is if you are leaving before the voting starts. Once the voting starts, follow the procedure mk described.

Message edited by author 2006-06-18 13:47:15.
06/18/2006 01:52:59 PM · #11
Hera,
You're relatively new here, and I'm sure that some of the things we take for granted are not that self-evident, but we do try to make understood that we strictly adhere to the rules, and we do so for a purpose.
Since we ask folks to shoot during the challenge timeframe, we need to try to ensure that all photos are actually shot during the challenge. Since we have editing rules, we need to check to see that they are being followed. The "original submission" part of the rules is there for that purpose. If you're going away on vacation or business, you've got three good options:

- Take original files with you for any current entries
- Submit a ticket under Help/Contact and attach the original for your entry
- If your departure is after the start of voting, request validation on your image. You can attach the proof file at that point.

It's likely that none of these options were apparent to you, since you are new. If you have questions, though, a post here in the furums will usually get you more answers than you bargained for!
06/18/2006 01:56:19 PM · #12
I'm glad this came up... I thought that if a validation request occured on your entry, that you just had to submit the original unaltered image with exif data intact... What I didnt realize is that you have to provide all your steps in the editing process... good to know... now what process does everyone use to log that info? Paper and pen?
06/18/2006 01:57:59 PM · #13
Originally posted by kirbic:

If you have questions, though, a post here in the furums will usually get you more answers than you bargained for!


& free whine & cheese !!!
06/18/2006 02:00:20 PM · #14
Originally posted by Sunniee:

I'm glad this came up... I thought that if a validation request occured on your entry, that you just had to submit the original unaltered image with exif data intact... What I didnt realize is that you have to provide all your steps in the editing process... good to know... now what process does everyone use to log that info? Paper and pen?


Judging by what we see, most folks just type them out from memory; mostly we see just a general outline of what was done. A few provide very detailed steps, including settings on filters, etc.
Bottom line, themore detail is proveded, the easier it is for us to verify that the results are obatinable, and so avoid a DQ. We do ask for additional detail occasionally.
06/18/2006 02:02:17 PM · #15
Originally posted by Sunniee:

I'm glad this came up... I thought that if a validation request occured on your entry, that you just had to submit the original unaltered image with exif data intact... What I didnt realize is that you have to provide all your steps in the editing process... good to know... now what process does everyone use to log that info? Paper and pen?


Well, I write them down as I do them. Mostly I just do a general outline, but if it's something that may "skirt" the line on the rules, I'll write down exactly what I do. I then add those notes to the "Photographer's Comments" section when I enter the photo. That las step saves me from having to hurry-scurry and search for my notes if I ever get a request for validation.
06/18/2006 02:04:44 PM · #16
Originally posted by Sunniee:

I'm glad this came up... I thought that if a validation request occured on your entry, that you just had to submit the original unaltered image with exif data intact... What I didnt realize is that you have to provide all your steps in the editing process... good to know... now what process does everyone use to log that info? Paper and pen?


There is a way that Rikki described to do this in PS.

06/18/2006 02:13:12 PM · #17
Thats great info, thanks everyone!
06/18/2006 02:17:39 PM · #18
Thank you all for all your explanations.

The DQ'ed shot was taken in my studio during the challenge time. I have signed release form from the client. This rule at DQ was never an issue for me. I always took it in consideration. Now about editing shots, things became more clear to me after my first DQ’ed shot.

The other rules, unknown to me at the time gave me an unfair DQ for winning shot.

It simply kills the enthusiasm of a newcomer who breaths and lives photography.

I am a pro photographer who got introduced to your site by a fellow photographer a month ago. I said to myself, I'll become a no-name at this site and compete here, see the reaction, read the comments and make some new friends.

All I feel now is discouragement, a slap on my hand due to my ignorance of the rules. Is the photo still a winner? You ask yourself.

Since my last DQ’ed shot, I started asking to myself, what do you have to prove, and why? Go ahead just share your knowledge, don't compete, you don't need to subjugate yourself into such complications.

Cheers,

Hera
06/18/2006 02:17:59 PM · #19
Originally posted by mk:


Should you ever decide to enter again, if you're going to be away during the challenge, you can submit proof ahead of time by clicking on the your image on the voting page and clicking on the link to request validation. You can submit your original there and the SC will hang on to it in case they need it.

Don't worry about the "punishment." Happens to lots of people here. We won't shun you. ;)


I do think this needs to be stated more clearly and openly. Cause frankly, I do think it is cheese regarding the 48 hour rule. I've not liked it for ages.

I usually agree with the site council. But frankly, this is a case in which I take much seperation and believe, that while the Site Council may be on base with regards to the rules that the rules are clearly left field in this matter.

My reasons for feeling this way are as follows.

1) I understand the 48 hr rule it to ensure quick process.

2) I think we all know that people at times are away for a week or so.

3) I've seen DQ announcements way late in the game. And adjustments on scores for challenges over for weeks.

4) It seems at odds to DQ a 'ribbon' photo for no cause. 48 hours does nto seem an adequate time.

5) Does the site council really want me to DQ every frickin entry I make. Because frankly, that's what you are saying. I think from now on that is what I am going to do until this rule is altered. Every entry I make I will DQ'd and provide the original. This will waste exceeding amounts of the site council time. But the fact is, my life can easily prevent me from being online for 2 days straight.

06/18/2006 02:23:30 PM · #20
Whatever happened to just having fun and testing your work...

I will not get angry if I get DQed until the first three gets dollar price starting from 3 grand. For now, my goal is to get a ribbon, any color, and test my work by entering to challenges...

I am not a pro, so probably that's why I talk like this... it's probably a lot different point of view if you are a pro... and DQed.

Photopromo's photos are excellent. DQing does not make them second class at all... They are superb :)
06/18/2006 02:28:42 PM · #21

For me the word "pro" means only that someone is earning their life through a profession. It doesn't mean "pro=good".

I am humble when it comes to use the word pro. Some people might take it as a snobbish act.

I first came here, like you said, to have fun to test my work without showing off who is behind the shots.

Cheers,

Hera

Originally posted by focuspoint:

Whatever happened to just having fun and testing your work...

I will not get angry if I get DQed until the first three gets dollar price starting from 3 grand. For now, my goal is to get a ribbon, any color, and test my work by entering to challenges...

I am not a pro, so probably that's why I talk like this... it's probably a lot different point of view if you are a pro... and DQed.

Photopromo's photos are excellent. DQing does not make them second class at all... They are superb :)
06/18/2006 02:28:46 PM · #22
Originally posted by theSaj:

Originally posted by mk:


Should you ever decide to enter again, if you're going to be away during the challenge, you can submit proof ahead of time by clicking on the your image on the voting page and clicking on the link to request validation. You can submit your original there and the SC will hang on to it in case they need it.

Don't worry about the "punishment." Happens to lots of people here. We won't shun you. ;)


I do think this needs to be stated more clearly and openly. Cause frankly, I do think it is cheese regarding the 48 hour rule. I've not liked it for ages.

I usually agree with the site council. But frankly, this is a case in which I take much seperation and believe, that while the Site Council may be on base with regards to the rules that the rules are clearly left field in this matter.

My reasons for feeling this way are as follows.

1) I understand the 48 hr rule it to ensure quick process.

2) I think we all know that people at times are away for a week or so.

3) I've seen DQ announcements way late in the game. And adjustments on scores for challenges over for weeks.

4) It seems at odds to DQ a 'ribbon' photo for no cause. 48 hours does nto seem an adequate time.

5) Does the site council really want me to DQ every frickin entry I make. Because frankly, that's what you are saying. I think from now on that is what I am going to do until this rule is altered. Every entry I make I will DQ'd and provide the original. This will waste exceeding amounts of the site council time. But the fact is, my life can easily prevent me from being online for 2 days straight.


As far as I know, Hera was informed of the reason for DQ. The reason is also stated with her entry: "You must provide your original photograph when requested, along with the editing steps used to create your submission. This information must be provided within 48 hours of the request. Please review the challenge submission rules."

We waited more than 48 hours. She provided two files, both were altered JPGs, not originals. The "original" Hera now uploaded to her portfolio is not an original, it is a resized JPG. There is a difference.

@theSaj, what do you propose as an different rule to validate that the images are taken within the allowed dates?

We are very, very willing to make allowances for cases when someone can't provide the original within 48 hours.

Also, if help is needed in either finding or uploading an original, many Site Council members are more than willing to help.

Finally, and excuse me here, but I am angry, this is not the first DQ for Hera for failing to provide the original. And, theSaj, my life also is so that I am not online for quite a few days at a time sometimes - but either don't submit or make arrangements. After all, those are the rules I checked as accepting when submitting an image to a challenge. If you don't want to submit an image under those rules, then don't submit. You won't be wasting SC's time by trying to submit images and get them DQed for whatever, you'll just be wasting your own time and energy.
06/18/2006 02:29:35 PM · #23
Originally posted by Photopromo:

For me the word "pro" means only that someone is earning their life through a profession. It doesn't mean "pro=good".

I am humble when it comes to use the word pro. Some people might take it as a snobbish act.

I first came here, like you said, to have fun to test my work without showing off who is behind the shots.

Cheers,

Hera

Originally posted by focuspoint:

Whatever happened to just having fun and testing your work...

I will not get angry if I get DQed until the first three gets dollar price starting from 3 grand. For now, my goal is to get a ribbon, any color, and test my work by entering to challenges...

I am not a pro, so probably that's why I talk like this... it's probably a lot different point of view if you are a pro... and DQed.

Photopromo's photos are excellent. DQing does not make them second class at all... They are superb :)


"Pro" does not mean you're above the rules of the site.
06/18/2006 02:31:47 PM · #24
Originally posted by theSaj:

1) I understand the 48 hr rule it to ensure quick process.


Yes. And to be clear, we do allow some leeway if we are in communication with the photographer. It should be stated that the "quick process" is for the benefit of other submittors, particularly where it involves a possible DQ of a ribbon-winner.

Originally posted by theSaj:

2) I think we all know that people at times are away for a week or so.


The vast majority of submittors make prearrangements; see my previous post for three ways this can be handled.

Originally posted by theSaj:

3) I've seen DQ announcements way late in the game. And adjustments on scores for challenges over for weeks.


Yes. Often requests don't come in until near the end of voting, then you've got 48 hours for original submission, and SC voting. It go past the end of voting

Originally posted by theSaj:

4) It seems at odds to DQ a 'ribbon' photo for no cause. 48 hours does nto seem an adequate time.


Again, when folks go away, they have three good methods of handling it. We *never* DQ for no reason. the rules are clear, and if we don't follow them for everyone, we are not being fair.

Originally posted by theSaj:

5) Does the site council really want me to DQ every frickin entry I make. Because frankly, that's what you are saying. I think from now on that is what I am going to do until this rule is altered. Every entry I make I will DQ'd and provide the original. This will waste exceeding amounts of the site council time. But the fact is, my life can easily prevent me from being online for 2 days straight.


That's a bit of an overreaction, LOL. If you're going away or going to be offline for an extended period, the by all means *do* submit an original, either using the validation request or opening a ticket. FWIW, where it is needed, it is not a waste of our time, that's what we're here for.

Bottom line, the rule is not going to change. It's here for the good of all users, and has functioned well. Virtually all users seem to be comfortable providing a file for validation within the reqired timeframe.

Message edited by author 2006-06-18 14:33:13.
06/18/2006 02:36:51 PM · #25
I never said I was above the RULES because I work as a photographer. You have a wonderful sense of humour ursula to make a point. (smiles)

Cheers,

Hera

Originally posted by ursula:

Originally posted by theSaj:

Originally posted by mk:


Should you ever decide to enter again, if you're going to be away during the challenge, you can submit proof ahead of time by clicking on the your image on the voting page and clicking on the link to request validation. You can submit your original there and the SC will hang on to it in case they need it.

Don't worry about the "punishment." Happens to lots of people here. We won't shun you. ;)


I do think this needs to be stated more clearly and openly. Cause frankly, I do think it is cheese regarding the 48 hour rule. I've not liked it for ages.

I usually agree with the site council. But frankly, this is a case in which I take much seperation and believe, that while the Site Council may be on base with regards to the rules that the rules are clearly left field in this matter.

My reasons for feeling this way are as follows.

1) I understand the 48 hr rule it to ensure quick process.

2) I think we all know that people at times are away for a week or so.

3) I've seen DQ announcements way late in the game. And adjustments on scores for challenges over for weeks.

4) It seems at odds to DQ a 'ribbon' photo for no cause. 48 hours does nto seem an adequate time.

5) Does the site council really want me to DQ every frickin entry I make. Because frankly, that's what you are saying. I think from now on that is what I am going to do until this rule is altered. Every entry I make I will DQ'd and provide the original. This will waste exceeding amounts of the site council time. But the fact is, my life can easily prevent me from being online for 2 days straight.


As far as I know, Hera was informed of the reason for DQ. The reason is also stated with her entry: "You must provide your original photograph when requested, along with the editing steps used to create your submission. This information must be provided within 48 hours of the request. Please review the challenge submission rules."

We waited more than 48 hours. She provided two files, both were altered JPGs, not originals. The "original" Hera now uploaded to her portfolio is not an original, it is a resized JPG. There is a difference.

@theSaj, what do you propose as an different rule to validate that the images are taken within the allowed dates?

We are very, very willing to make allowances for cases when someone can't provide the original within 48 hours.

Also, if help is needed in either finding or uploading an original, many Site Council members are more than willing to help.

Finally, and excuse me here, but I am angry, this is not the first DQ for Hera for failing to provide the original. And, theSaj, my life also is so that I am not online for quite a few days at a time sometimes - but either don't submit or make arrangements. After all, those are the rules I checked as accepting when submitting an image to a challenge. If you don't want to submit an image under those rules, then don't submit. You won't be wasting SC's time by trying to submit images and get them DQed for whatever, you'll just be wasting your own time and energy.
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