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05/15/2006 11:54:32 AM · #1 |
I'm crushed. And I'm sorry. I seriously didn't see my border, or the removal of the concrete to the side as a major element. I took the picture with the intention of cropping it, and it never occurred to me that it would be.
I'm sorry.
I have never felt so embarrassed or horribly mortified in my life.
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05/15/2006 11:56:49 AM · #2 |
| awww. I didnt even realize it was disqualified. this was my favorite one of the challenge. my only 10 given. that explains why you didnt ribbon. so sorry . you live and learn. right? |
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05/15/2006 11:57:56 AM · #3 |
Originally posted by notesinstones:
I have never felt so embarrassed or horribly mortified in my life. |
Don't feel that way! It is a beautiful picture and you made a mistake. It's okay - live, learn, and submit tomorrow! |
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05/15/2006 11:59:56 AM · #4 |
left you a comment, and gonna add your entry to my faves. I think you did a great job, but I think Tinky is right!
see you in the next challenge!!! |
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05/15/2006 12:00:37 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by jaded_youth:
you live and learn. right? |
Seriously? I ribboned once, and that picture had 3/4 of the entire photo and island cropped out, and that wasn't deemed a major element when it went up for validation. Never in a million years would I have figured on the inch I took of this one, and because it was a movie poster, the borders seemed neccisary.
I *thought* I understood the rules. Guess in all honesty you never can tell whats gonna fly and whats not.
edit to add: I'm just upset, and not whining. Baffled, upset. Very sad.
VERY ashamed.
Message edited by author 2006-05-15 12:01:23. |
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05/15/2006 12:03:35 PM · #6 |
| could you show us the border you're talking about? (original file maybe? or one edited with border?) |
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05/15/2006 12:03:51 PM · #7 |
| The only reason to ever be ashamed is if you intentionally cheated which you clearly didn't do. People make mistakes all the time and the major elements rule is a confusing one. Be bummed for awhile but not ashamed. |
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05/15/2006 12:05:45 PM · #8 |
| yeah most of us are kinda lost as to what photo you mean? |
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05/15/2006 12:06:17 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by notesinstones:
I'm just upset, and not whining. Baffled, upset. Very sad. VERY ashamed. |
Please don't be ashamed!! Thinks like this happens to everyone. Look at the bright side, how well you did and the great comments you received and as Tinky2 said, learn from your mistake for the future.
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05/15/2006 12:07:16 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by kyebosh:
yeah most of us are kinda lost as to what photo you mean? |
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05/15/2006 12:08:14 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by notesinstones:
Originally posted by jaded_youth:
you live and learn. right? |
Seriously? I ribboned once, and that picture had 3/4 of the entire photo and island cropped out, .... |
I think that is probably where the difference would come in. Did you clone out the major element or crop it out. Cropping would be fine, cloning out a major element is where it gets tricky.
It is a really cool image and deserving of a high score.
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05/15/2006 12:08:37 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by Manic:
Originally posted by kyebosh:
yeah most of us are kinda lost as to what photo you mean? |
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So was all of the darkness on the left and right added? Is that what you mean by border? *confused too*
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05/15/2006 12:11:04 PM · #13 |
| "Cropping" to remove a major element is fine in either rule set. Editing to remove a major element is illegal in either rule set. From the description provided by the SC, it looks like she removed something and created black or negative space instead. Not just simple cropping. |
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05/15/2006 12:20:58 PM · #14 |
| Left you a comment. Also, can you please post the original, so we can all learn from this. The major elements rule is tough to understand. Thanks. |
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05/15/2006 12:30:52 PM · #15 |
Yhea, for the record everyone. A DQ is a DQ and its not up to anyone to try and change the SC's mind. I thank everyone for the support, but I'm going to support the decision standing as it is. Thanks for the encouraging words though. I was blindsided and its going to be a little while before I'm over it...
Heres the orig. so that its on record for the sake of consistancy.
What I did for editing - the actual effect was long and drawn out - but where the DQ is concerned I cropped out almost all of that cement on the right, and burned out the highlighted parts at the end because they were distracting. I also added a thick border to the left and right, because - well, thats where the text WOULD have gone and all my publishing training said I needed a place for text if it were a real poster....
*sigh*
So there it is. :( |
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05/15/2006 12:35:37 PM · #16 |
I think the issue here is the definition of a "border". I think that for you to call something a "border" it should go all the way around the picture and be the same width. (can I get a witness?)
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05/15/2006 12:42:50 PM · #17 |
| A border might not have to go all the way around, but it should obviously be a border. Cropping something out is fine as long as the image stays cropped. If you add image area the same color as your background back in, that's not considered a border. That's making part of your image blank that wasn't blank before. |
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05/15/2006 12:44:37 PM · #18 |
| thanks for posting the original. I like it but certainly see why you did the editing you did. I feel the modified version is much better and really speaks well of the place and situation you were at. |
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05/15/2006 12:57:05 PM · #19 |
| ya, it's a great photo, but it's clearly a DQ. Chalk it up to a learning experience and move on. We won't hold it against you. There are lots of people on this site with a pink line on their profile. |
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05/15/2006 01:00:16 PM · #20 |
Personally, I don't see why the DQ. You could have burned the regions so much that they would have turned black from the burning... Would that be considered a removal of a major element? Burning to black will do exactly that: remove details from the image.
The shot you submitted rocked. No need to be ashamed of the DQ.
Message edited by author 2006-05-15 13:01:55.
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05/15/2006 01:02:01 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by DrJOnes:
You could have burned the regions so much that they would have turned black from the burning... Would that be considered a removal of a major element? |
yes, yes it would.
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05/15/2006 01:02:07 PM · #22 |
Seems a fine and delicate line between cropping out an area and replacing it with a border versus adding image area the same color as your background. So to avoid DQ your border must be a different color than your background???
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05/15/2006 01:10:21 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
A border might not have to go all the way around, but it should obviously be a border. Cropping something out is fine as long as the image stays cropped. If you add image area the same color as your background back in, that's not considered a border. That's making part of your image blank that wasn't blank before. |
here's an example of one of my photos that uses only side borders... you only really see it at the bottom.
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05/15/2006 01:11:51 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
Seems a fine and delicate line between cropping out an area and replacing it with a border versus adding image area the same color as your background. |
It should be obvious that it's a border. Adding black pixels to a black background isn't considered a border- it's extending the image area. If prominent objects disappear from your submitted image area, then they've been removed (no matter what you call it). |
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05/15/2006 01:12:46 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by DrJOnes:
Personally, I don't see why the DQ. You could have burned the regions so much that they would have turned black from the burning... Would that be considered a removal of a major element? Burning to black will do exactly that: remove details from the image.
Your shot rocked. No need to be ashamed of the DQ. |
Yes, burning to black is still removal. If, however, a background is supressed using global levels or curves adjustment, we have always considered that legal. Also, cropping is pretty much always legal.
When a *selected* area is strongly modified by dodging/burning and the result is the supression of major elements, that is considered the same as removal by cloning. In short, the method of removal doesn't matter, if something major in the (cropped) frame was removed, the shot will be DQ'd.
With regard to borders, pretty much anything goes except inclusion of art or text... as long as it is clear that it's a border. What has been consistently ruled a DQ is to add negative space that clearly changes the composition and is not readily discernable as a border (in other words, to match color such that it blends in).
I do hope this helps to clarify why this DQ happened. We never like to see folks disqualified, and this shot was actually one of my favs from this challenge :-(
I think it's true that we learn more from our mistakes than from our successes, so I guess this one gets chalked up to learning :-) As Martin posted, no need to be ashamed, happens to the best. |
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