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05/02/2006 01:24:54 PM · #1 |
I think it is funny how the only type of image you can upload is a jpg. You should allow an open format as well. I would recomend the added availability to upload the image in PNG format instead of JPG.
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05/02/2006 01:34:36 PM · #2 |
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05/02/2006 01:40:16 PM · #3 |
| Curious also, why make file sizes drastically larger without a reason? |
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05/02/2006 01:40:55 PM · #4 |
From jent's statement, it looks like someone is interested in fostering Open Source software/formats.
From a technical perspective, my basic understanding is that PNG can produce smaller file sizes with better quality then a JPG image can. It's got a better compression algorithm.
Also, virtually every PC on the 'net is capable of reading PNG files in their web browsers, quite easily.
Lastly, it is possible that a switch over to PNG could potentially save the site some bandwidth costs as a smaller PNG filesize could be instituted and still provide similar display results.
I do agree that PNG could be added as an option for uploading files. |
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05/02/2006 01:45:42 PM · #5 |
if your browser cant display jpegs, you have bigger problems.
aside from that, png support sounds good.
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05/02/2006 01:46:58 PM · #6 |
| Call me and e-dunce, but a quick PNG save showed a file nearly 8 times the size. Is additional software required for the comprssion? |
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05/02/2006 01:50:19 PM · #7 |
From Wikipedia...
JPEG will produce a smaller file than PNG for photographic (and photo-like) images since it uses a lossy encoding method specifically designed for photographic image data. Using PNG instead of a high-quality JPEG for such images would result in a large increase in filesize (often 5-10 times) with negligible gain in quality.
PNG is a better choice than JPEG for storing images that contain text, line art, or other images with sharp transitions that do not transform well into the frequency domain. Where an image contains both sharp transitions and photographic parts a choice must be made between the large but sharp PNG and a small JPEG with artifacts around sharp transitions.
JPEG is a poor choice for storing images that may need to be edited further as it suffers from generation loss issues, whereas PNG is a lossless file format and is therefore better suited to storage and recovery of images that are likely to be further edited. |
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05/02/2006 01:57:11 PM · #8 |
From Wikipedia:
...
oops, MK beat me to it.
That being said, I don't see PNG as a good choice for DPC.
Message edited by author 2006-05-02 13:58:09.
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05/02/2006 01:58:05 PM · #9 |
| Seven whole minutes? Come on, man! :P |
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05/02/2006 01:59:12 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by mk:
Seven whole minutes? Come on, man! :P |
I'm still a bit beat down from my commenting marathon yesterday. Forgive me :-)
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05/02/2006 02:06:36 PM · #11 |
mk fast, leroy slow
cheese, it slows a body down. |
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05/02/2006 05:01:45 PM · #12 |
The file size IME is neglagible. JPG is smaller in partice but I am not asking you to redo the image requirments....I think the size/dimensions of the current requirments are fine, and PNG can fit within those requirment quite easily.
The reason I mostly think it is important to support PNG is because of JPG's licencing and fees required. I try to use jpg as little as possible but unfrotatnly with DPC that is not an option. I guess this is more of a moral issue than anything else.
As for everyone who replyed, thanks for your input :-)...I thought this may be a thread with no replys, but clearly there are some others who have through about it.
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05/02/2006 05:08:13 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by jent:
The reason I mostly think it is important to support PNG is because of JPG's licencing and fees required... |
Are you confusing JPG with GIF? The GIF format is what the PNG format was designed to replace, after the IP owner of the GIF format (Compuserve) started to make noise about royalties. AFAIK, there is no such issue with JPG.
FWIW, the GIF and PNG formats are both optimized for non-photographic images, whereas JPG is optimized for photographic image storage.
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05/03/2006 01:49:39 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
Originally posted by jent:
The reason I mostly think it is important to support PNG is because of JPG's licencing and fees required... |
Are you confusing JPG with GIF? The GIF format is what the PNG format was designed to replace, after the IP owner of the GIF format (Compuserve) started to make noise about royalties. AFAIK, there is no such issue with JPG.
FWIW, the GIF and PNG formats are both optimized for non-photographic images, whereas JPG is optimized for photographic image storage. |
My bad...but I still think this is a path that should be considered. |
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05/03/2006 01:57:00 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by jent:
My bad...but I still think this is a path that should be considered. |
If this site were geared more toward rasterized vector graphics, I'd agree that PNG would be a valuable choice. I don't see it as adding much value to a site geared toward photos.
Alos, we could get into some wierd rules having to be written to deal with transparency. Would we get a lot of round and oddly shaped photos?
Message edited by author 2006-05-03 13:57:39.
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05/03/2006 01:57:25 PM · #16 |
maybe not replacing jpeg comepletly but allow more open formats.
most people use jpeg and thats just easy |
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05/03/2006 02:00:09 PM · #17 |
I for one wouldn't mind the addition of png images. Keep jpg but allow png too.
edit to add: I'm sure most people will continue to use jpg though since that's what the majority of cameras shoot natively.
Message edited by author 2006-05-03 14:02:13. |
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05/03/2006 02:00:09 PM · #18 |
i may be wrong ( iam most of the time :) )
but, i'm sure the jpeg file format had issues with royalties but ran out in 2000, and i think 'they' were making a jpeg2000 file format that was going to take over the world ??
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05/03/2006 02:02:25 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by richard42:
i may be wrong ( iam most of the time :) )
but, i'm sure the jpeg file format had issues with royalties but ran out in 2000, and i think 'they' were making a jpeg2000 file format that was going to take over the world ?? |
I've noticed that as an option to save to (jpeg2000) in PSP X - but browsers don't support it I don't think. Have wondered what that was all about. ;^) |
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05/03/2006 02:02:40 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
... Would we get a lot of round and oddly shaped photos? |
Never!
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05/03/2006 02:11:28 PM · #21 |
Ping files are tailor made for screenshots when making clear what needs done by demonstration. But also, the number one thing said when working on someone elses photo in the forums is that it would have been better with out the jpg compression (from the original). Working from a png would save the image fom having to be compressed before posting and is much better than TIFF in that respect.
For those reasons, if no other, it would be nice to have the option.
David
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05/03/2006 02:25:19 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by mk:
From Wikipedia...
JPEG will produce a smaller file than PNG for photographic (and photo-like) images since it uses a lossy encoding method specifically designed for photographic image data. Using PNG instead of a high-quality JPEG for such images would result in a large increase in filesize (often 5-10 times) with negligible gain in quality.
PNG is a better choice than JPEG for storing images that contain text, line art, or other images with sharp transitions that do not transform well into the frequency domain. Where an image contains both sharp transitions and photographic parts a choice must be made between the large but sharp PNG and a small JPEG with artifacts around sharp transitions.
JPEG is a poor choice for storing images that may need to be edited further as it suffers from generation loss issues, whereas PNG is a lossless file format and is therefore better suited to storage and recovery of images that are likely to be further edited. |
So post-process in PNG, save in JPG? Is that what I'm reading here?
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05/03/2006 03:01:30 PM · #23 |
You should always try to post-process in Photoshop (PSD), or whatever the native file format is for your editing program.
JPEG, PNG, TIFF, GIF, should all be considered final end-products, a copy generated from the final edited version only when everything is done. |
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05/03/2006 03:19:36 PM · #24 |
PNG (like GIF) is for text and vector graphics, and offers no benefit for photos at any stage. That's why JPEG is the only option on DPC. Think about it.. if PNG was better for photos, why does every single digital camera (as far as I know) use JPEG and not PNG?
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05/03/2006 03:37:39 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by postoakinversion:
PNG (like GIF) is for text and vector graphics, and offers no benefit for photos at any stage. That's why JPEG is the only option on DPC. Think about it.. if PNG was better for photos, why does every single digital camera (as far as I know) use JPEG and not PNG? |
JPEG ...
- has been standard for years, people are familiar with it.
- makes quick and easy viewing.
- compresses better so it allows more to fit on the card.
- is readily accepted by many printing companies.
- etc.
JPG is a convience in cameras, not an optimum solution. The choices offered when making an optimum solution is RAW, and when that is not possible TIFF. From what I've been able to learn TIFF is chosen because it has been around far longer and is more readily accepted, while PNG is a (relatively) new offering that has not gained much of a foot-hold in that respect.
I use PNG for intermediate saves over TIFF when possible. I do this mainly for compatibility and space. The TIFF format is a container format that holds the Bitmap as well as other information. This other information can be any number of things, including compression -- and many time the compression used within TIFF is a form of lossy compression such as JPG. The main point is the TIFF format does not provide the certainty the output from one product will work as the input for another, while the PNG format is standadized and if implemented does provide that certainty.
PNG is not a do it all format, but it does provide many benefits over JPG, TIFF or GIF -- benefits that will only become more useful as PNG acceptance increases.
David
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