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04/21/2006 04:28:25 PM · #1
So has anyone looked at the statistics to see if those in any of the "private" or dpc affiliated contests are receiving more "10" votes now than they did as an average before these leagues or contests started? My "wild" guess is that the answer is yes, each team member will vote a 10 or maybe a 9 for each other. Has anyone with access to votes by whom to whom to see if this is a common practise now? Interesting concept isn't it? OR has the average votes given dropped since these contests started because no-one should know which pics are from other teams and they only know their own team member pics during voting? Contests are fun but not sure it should be part of the learning of dpc. ....can I join a team now? ;)
04/21/2006 04:59:15 PM · #2
This is a pretty cynical outlook, bordering on conspiracy theory. Unless the team members are exchanging information on which submission are theirs, they won't know to vote a 10.
I'm sure that every challenge has a few cases of "buddy voting." I'm also sure that, with the number of votes in a challenge, it makes very little difference.
04/21/2006 05:04:07 PM · #3
Originally posted by kirbic:

This is a pretty cynical outlook, bordering on conspiracy theory. Unless the team members are exchanging information on which submission are theirs, they won't know to vote a 10.
I'm sure that every challenge has a few cases of "buddy voting." I'm also sure that, with the number of votes in a challenge, it makes very little difference.


Agreed on number of votes in a challenge will make little difference. But an interesting idea, how much buddy voting is going on, easy for you to see after the fact. And yes many people do get advise from others before a contest, it has been written about in the DPC Challenge forums before. This is just another twist.

Would it not be interesting if for example there was a filter at score tabiulation that dropped votes out of calculation from team members...hummm, then the conspiracy theory goes away and we can get back to where Elvis lives and who killed Kennedy
04/21/2006 05:05:49 PM · #4
If this is true, my team hates me......That practice is not happening on our team.....ace

Message edited by author 2006-04-21 17:12:58.
04/21/2006 05:05:50 PM · #5
As a data point, I don't know the submissions of any of my teammates. I have to wait until the challenges are over then I go look 'em up.

04/21/2006 05:23:16 PM · #6
Originally posted by PhantomEWO:

So has anyone looked at the statistics to see if those in any of the "private" or dpc affiliated contests are receiving more "10" votes now than they did as an average before these leagues or contests started? My "wild" guess is that the answer is yes, each team member will vote a 10 or maybe a 9 for each other. Has anyone with access to votes by whom to whom to see if this is a common practise now? Interesting concept isn't it? OR has the average votes given dropped since these contests started because no-one should know which pics are from other teams and they only know their own team member pics during voting? Contests are fun but not sure it should be part of the learning of dpc. ....can I join a team now? ;)


In my case you "wild guess" is way off the mark.

My average score during the last 5 challenges since WPL began is 5.362 with 8 votes of 10 received.

My average score in the previous 5 challenges before WPL began is 5.548 with 25 votes of 10 received.

As with all good conspiracy stories yours is big on allegations but seriously lacks substance.

04/21/2006 05:24:57 PM · #7
Same here, we may exchange how we are doing, but I have no idea on others entries nor they on mine.

However if a few folks would like to buddy up to asist me in improving my score, then click here to help out.
:-)
04/21/2006 05:28:24 PM · #8
I worked it out. Assuming your picture averages a 7.0 (because otherwise it really doesn't matter does it? who cares if your buddies voted you up when it doesn't concern a ribbon) and there are 275 votes, if the 6 members on your team voted you a 10 just because (instead of the 7 average that you were getting) it would improve your score to 7.06. In a few cases that may make a difference, but most of the time it doesn't.

So we have to make a lot of assumptions before we conclude that ribbons are being handed out to WPL members unfairly.

a) This activity is actually going on en force
b) The challenge is very close
c) It was a ribbon worthy image to begin with.

Message edited by author 2006-04-21 17:30:08.
04/21/2006 05:30:27 PM · #9
Originally posted by PhantomEWO:

So has anyone looked at the statistics to see if those in any of the "private" or dpc affiliated contests are receiving more "10" votes now than they did as an average before these leagues or contests started? My "wild" guess is that the answer is yes, each team member will vote a 10 or maybe a 9 for each other. Contests are fun but not sure it should be part of the learning of dpc. ....can I join a team now? ;)


If you think that the teams are all conspiring, think again. Maybe it's best to gather some solid proof first prior to making "theories" simply based on non-factual material ;) Like Tim (keegbow) had mentioned, his was actually a drop in average more than an improvement. Kinda makes you think twice doesn't it?

Cheers,

Rikki
04/21/2006 05:35:10 PM · #10
Well since I havent seen any of my team-mates photo entries until after voting is over, I'd say this isnt happening. Here are how many 10's I have had in the 3 challenges I have been in since the WPL league started.

Textures entry had 2

Childrens Toy had 1

Yellow had 1

Hmmm we sure are cheating arent we! The spirit of DPC is still the same, no one should be or is sharing their entrys prior to entering. I can assure you this is true of the Olympus group. And I have no reason to believe that any other team is breaking any of the rules either. Sorry to dissapoint your conspiracy theory.

Edit to correct typo

MattO

Message edited by author 2006-04-21 17:36:52.
04/21/2006 06:04:08 PM · #11
Conspiracy theory, nope not from me, I don't think I started this off with those words. A lot of people here like statistics, it was a brain teaser and and another way to look at statistics. Looks like there are a few people that was wondering also because they are not doing it in their team. Hummmm a real brain teaser wasn't it? ;) Just another statistic, I believe the thread started out asking both sides of the question: Has scores of those in contests gone up or gone down? Everyone jumped to conclusions and denials but no conspiracy and no answers from those who really have the scores. So again, has the formulation of affiliated contests affected overall scoring of those within the additional contests and or those who are not part of the contests. Just a simple statistical question and nothing more......I'm still all of your friends ;)
04/21/2006 06:42:12 PM · #12
Originally posted by PhantomEWO:

Conspiracy theory, nope not from me, I don't think I started this off with those words. A lot of people here like statistics, it was a brain teaser and and another way to look at statistics. Looks like there are a few people that was wondering also because they are not doing it in their team. Hummmm a real brain teaser wasn't it? ;) Just another statistic, I believe the thread started out asking both sides of the question: Has scores of those in contests gone up or gone down? Everyone jumped to conclusions and denials but no conspiracy and no answers from those who really have the scores. So again, has the formulation of affiliated contests affected overall scoring of those within the additional contests and or those who are not part of the contests. Just a simple statistical question and nothing more......I'm still all of your friends ;)


In your second post you stated ".hummm, then the conspiracy theory goes away and we can get back to where Elvis lives and who killed Kennedy" so I do believe the conspiracy theory was from you!

You asked a lot of questions then you also gave the answer that you said was a wild guess so you aligned yourself with one side of the arguement.

To now say it was a "simple statistical question and nothing more" is a bit of cop out. If you want to make allegations just say don't hide behind "statistical questions"
04/21/2006 07:57:00 PM · #13
Originally posted by keegbow:

Originally posted by PhantomEWO:

Conspiracy theory, nope not from me, I don't think I started this off with those words. A lot of people here like statistics, it was a brain teaser and and another way to look at statistics. Looks like there are a few people that was wondering also because they are not doing it in their team. Hummmm a real brain teaser wasn't it? ;) Just another statistic, I believe the thread started out asking both sides of the question: Has scores of those in contests gone up or gone down? Everyone jumped to conclusions and denials but no conspiracy and no answers from those who really have the scores. So again, has the formulation of affiliated contests affected overall scoring of those within the additional contests and or those who are not part of the contests. Just a simple statistical question and nothing more......I'm still all of your friends ;)


In your second post you stated ".hummm, then the conspiracy theory goes away and we can get back to where Elvis lives and who killed Kennedy" so I do believe the conspiracy theory was from you!

You asked a lot of questions then you also gave the answer that you said was a wild guess so you aligned yourself with one side of the arguement.

To now say it was a "simple statistical question and nothing more" is a bit of cop out. If you want to make allegations just say don't hide behind "statistical questions"


FIRST of all Mr Keegbow or do I dare say fairdinkum, the words conspiracy theory was used by Kirbic in a note after mine, that is the first place that "conspiracy theory" was used.

Do I think Elvis is a conspiracy .... nope a great singer but stupidity brought on by excessive wealth and drugs resulted in him and his Doctors killing him by drugs ... once and for all ... Elvis is DEAD.... NO Conspiracy theory.

So Kennedy is a conspiracy theory, nope not in my mind, I've been to the spot, I've seen the news, watched the movie. Kennedy was a president who was not well liked by many until after his death. Amazing how death brings out the best in all of us ;). He stood up to Cuba and Russia, but was a more out of control playboy and adulterer than Clinton in the Whitehouse. Kennedy was not in power long enough to prove himself, afterall wasn't it Kennedy who got the US, Australia, and many other nations involved in Vietnam to the level that other presidents and world leaders were so committed it was difficult to know where to run? Was he disliked, yup, but he was also liked by many others. I sat in school when it was announced we were all stunned. So he lost his life, no conspiracy, or at least one that I care about. Do I admire him for his stance against Cuba, definately not for his bungle at the Bay of Pigs. Many do and that may be their passion ... so be it.

And conspiracy theories in DPC, hell who cares, no copout, if you knew me you would realize I don't copout of anything, make mistakes, yup, apoligize yup, care about other votes here, nope, just doesn't matter. I've learned a lot from here. There have been other forum discussions on votes since the contests began, conspiracy qyestions there, ya some... how can there be a conspiracy when it just doesn't matter.

Now if DPC got some sponsors and there was extreme rewards or prizes for winner, wow what a mess this place would be then, many would think it does matter and true conspiracy theories would run wild.

In most cases the winners are well deserved, in others there are questionable intents (nope lets not go back to the "exactly 2 seconds" challenge ok?)

The only conspiracy theory I know of is the moon landing and the Big Foot coverup .... oh ya maybe that prehistoric creature in Scottland ...hummmmmm conspiracy or fable. Maybe you can help me with that my friend, and I do consider you and all the dpc people my friends .... but buy your own bar drinks when we meet ;)

so did the US land on the moon, is Bigfoot a creature or myth and is there a sea creature in Lochness? Millions of dollars have been spent on these conspiracy theories. DPC, impossible to even have one since it doesn't matter one way or the other.

p.s. there has been many many statistical evaluations on almost every subject matter, why do you think that there is a "filter" when the votes are tabulated? Maybe there are jerks on this site too? Another who cares "conspiracy" theory ;)
04/21/2006 08:04:52 PM · #14
As an "oh by the way", I will vouch that Don is a very nice guy. Part-time harmless stalker, maybe... ;-) (Just kidding, Don!) But a very nice guy.

As for scores, I think the competition has made folks work a bit harder - that part may very well be true. The "very good" amongst us are doing some of their best DPC-friendly stuff, and the "we try harder" gang is indeed trying harder. Keep in mind that the best score of possibly two is used for each photographer (heh, does that mean I count as a "photographer?") and yes, in some cases, people are beating their average. I think it speaks more to the "try harder" thing than to sharing entries.

Gotta say, though, we can't let Librodo enter any more portraits.... that's just patently unfair. ;-)
04/21/2006 08:44:10 PM · #15
Originally posted by PhantomEWO:



Do I think Elvis is a conspiracy ... once and for all ... Elvis is DEAD.... NO Conspiracy theory.


Hey!! now that is just mean! my scores may suck but I am not dead' unless I am like bruce willis in the sixth sense;)
04/21/2006 08:48:12 PM · #16
damn! elvis LIVES!
04/21/2006 08:56:45 PM · #17
Kennedy had better taste in women than Clinton, Elvis is alive and picked me as one of his fav's, and I wish all the teams would get together and vote me up, just so I can see what a 5 feels like ;)
04/21/2006 09:09:37 PM · #18
Well, it's been a long time since Stats class...but, taking a high flying swag at it - from what I understand, there are 12 teams with 8 players each. In a challenge, if all 96 players voted in one direction on a certain set of photo's, then yes, 96 out of the average 275+ votes is statistically significant. However, that would not make sense for the purposes of the contest. So, even if all of the 8 people on a specific team voted 10's on all their own photos, those scores (out of the 275+ votes per challenge) are statistically insignificant - thus the point is moot (IMO).

FYI, I am not card carrying member of the WPL and have no allegiance to any of the teams in question. :-)
04/21/2006 09:09:42 PM · #19
Originally posted by kirbic:

... I'm sure that every challenge has a few cases of "buddy voting." I'm also sure that, with the number of votes in a challenge, it makes very little difference.


kirbic, I think you perhaps underestimate the difference a few "buddy votes" can make, but at least you are realistic enough to admit that it happens.

Here's a quote of myself recently in another thread --

Originally posted by coolhar:

There is no way to know for sure going into voting but by looking at the results you can answer that question accurately. Any place where the scores of two entries are fairly close a difference of a very small number of votes changed can determine, or overturn, the order fo finish.

I took a quick look at the Jump challenge and found:

For the blue ribbon to have been claimed by the second place finisher would require 2 people who voted the red ribbon shot a 5, and 2 more who voted it a 6 to change their 4 votes to 10.

The threshold for ribboning was even lower - persuadeing one voter who would have scored the 4th place shot as a 6 to raise their vote to an 8 would have copped the yellow ribbon.

To break into the top ten the 11th place image needed only to get one vote upped from a six to a 10.

So I would say that it takes getting only a very few voters, sometimes only a single person, to throw your image a ringer score to actually make a difference in the rankings. Kinda surprising even to me, but anyone can do the math for themself.



04/21/2006 09:18:01 PM · #20
I can only speak for myself as one of the Untouchables, and I haven't seen or discussed ANY current challenge entry with any of my team mates. If you'll notice for Week 1, my average even went DOWN - LOL. I don't think it's happening...
04/21/2006 09:27:13 PM · #21
Originally posted by macpapas:

Well, it's been a long time since Stats class...but, taking a high flying swag at it - from what I understand, there are 12 teams with 8 players each. In a challenge, if all 96 players voted in one direction on a certain set of photo's, then yes, 96 out of the average 275+ votes is statistically significant. However, that would not make sense for the purposes of the contest. So, even if all of the 8 people on a specific team voted 10's on all their own photos, those scores (out of the 275+ votes per challenge) are statistically insignificant - thus the point is moot (IMO).

FYI, I am not card carrying member of the WPL and have no allegiance to any of the teams in question. :-)


The challenges don't average 275+ votes per entry. Go to the Challenge History page and you can see the average number of votes received per entry for every challenge. I think there is a trend toward less voting but haven't done the math to prove, or disprove, that suspicion. More voting is very desirable as it waters down the effects of "buddy voting".
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