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DPChallenge Forums >> Tips, Tricks, and Q&A >> Learning Thread — Landscape Photography
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04/24/2006 03:15:05 PM · #326
Originally posted by stdavidson:


My personal perference is to do as few "destructive" processes as possible. That guides my actions. Not because they are not necessary, many are, but because later when I look at my post processed master file I can't remember what I did on those combined layers and want to repeat it somewhere else. LOL!

Oh, I'm one of those people that actually remembers the 60s, so maybe I wasn't really there. ;)


I'm pretty sure you can do everything I'm doing "non destructively" by linking each group of layers together. I've never played with that very much, and I've been too lazy to experiment with it.

I have some vague memories of the 60's. I spent the "summer of love" in a crash pad on Haight Street, actually. I think... Can anyone confirm this? jejeje™

R.
04/24/2006 03:30:41 PM · #327
I like when you go through the steps you did
and it is very helpful when you say why you did them
such as this

"As usual, multiple contrast masking, flattening it on the first pass and then bringing back contrast (with vivid light this time) in the second pass on shadows. I also used cntrl-alt-3 to select the blue/cyan range and tone it down, faint gradients top and bottom, and some minor tweaking of hue/sat to make the reds darker and the yellows lighter for more sense of relief in the sand. "

thanks for doing that
alot of people say what they did to the photo, but they never say the reasoning behind it, sure some of it is common sense, but i appreciate the insight
(my apologies for the spelling errors)

04/24/2006 03:44:40 PM · #328
Originally posted by Raziel:

Here's a vertical landscape from my archive (shot in fairly heavy mist)

Original

Edited Version

Used levels to set the black point. Played with curves a bit. Also a bit of dodge and burn.

Exposure: 1/50 at f5.6, ISO 100


Here's Raziel's original:

I have used a single pass of contrast masking, with the highlights multiplied and the shadows in soft light mode. I made a duplicate of the BG image and merged the shadow/highlight layers into that, then set the merged composit layer to hard light mode, and laid in a gradient on the sky and faded it. No hue/sat adjustments at all this time.



Robt.
04/24/2006 04:52:51 PM · #329
I have been watching and learning silently with this thread, and I just have to say Bear...YOU ROCK!

The contrast masking, has helped me improve my images, and at the same time eliminate goo gobbs of other steps. Seems that I can now do the contrast masking and say a hue/sat or levels adjustment and be good to go.

Thanks a bunch for doing the learning threads.

Maya
04/24/2006 05:03:25 PM · #330
Originally posted by MayaM:

I have been watching and learning silently with this thread, and I just have to say Bear...YOU ROCK!

The contrast masking, has helped me improve my images, and at the same time eliminate goo gobbs of other steps. Seems that I can now do the contrast masking and say a hue/sat or levels adjustment and be good to go.

Thanks a bunch for doing the learning threads.

Maya


Yes, that's the idea. When I learned how to do it life got SO simple. I used to spend GOBS of time making selections and then have all sorts of trouble with boundaries between them popping up. Since I picked upon contrast masking I seldom need to do that sort of selecting anymore.

Robt.
04/24/2006 05:52:39 PM · #331
Hello Robert,

Hoping to contribute a couple of images. Not sure what it says about me as a photographer, but portrait orientation seems to work well for many of my compositions. Here are a couple recent ones and also a before and after of one taken last week.



original: RAW process and auto levels only +USM


processed:
1. Contrast masking for highlights and shadows (x2) Set highlights to multiply, shadows to screen.
2. Added grey/blue gradient to sky and set layer to color burn ~40%. The sky didn't have much going for it so this seemed to restore a little tone.
3. Sat adjustment layer: Slightly desat blue and cyan. Up sat on green/yellow.
4. contrast adjust layer: up contrast +6
5. USM



I think the adjusted version is 10x better and i'll second MayaM in saying that contrast masking saves all the messy selection methods. Yuck! I would like to see your quick take with the sky. I'm enjoying following along on this thread even if i havent' been able to contribute much.

mark

This shot was taken about 6:30 a.m. just before sunrise. Next time I will climb down the cliff to get a better/different view :)

Message edited by author 2006-04-24 18:04:52.
04/24/2006 06:16:47 PM · #332
Originally posted by mpeters:




original: RAW process and auto levels only +USM


processed:
1. Contrast masking for highlights and shadows (x2) Set highlights to multiply, shadows to screen.
2. Added grey/blue gradient to sky and set layer to color burn ~40%. The sky didn't have much going for it so this seemed to restore a little tone.
3. Sat adjustment layer: Slightly desat blue and cyan. Up sat on green/yellow.
4. contrast adjust layer: up contrast +6
5. USM



I think the adjusted version is 10x better and i'll second MayaM in saying that contrast masking saves all the messy selection methods.


Here's a quick stab at it: look closely and then pay attention to the comments after:



On your "original", it isn't. You have added autolevels and USM to the RAW conversion.

To use this contrast masking effectively, you absolutely cannot use autolevels first. And you most especially cannot add USM on top of THAT, before working with the contrast masks. If you look closely at your "original", you will see that there is haloing where darks meet lights. Using contrast masking on top of that accentuates those defects. Doing ANYTHING on top of that accentuates the defects, basically.

The advantage of contrast masking is that it is bleeding over the transitions very smoothly, so any radical adjustments and/or sharpening should be done after the basic masking work is finished. Another area where it create problems was subtle yellow and cyan pixelation blocks in the sky. So I couldn't really go anywhere with this one. What I ended up with is pretty similar to what you got, except I coarse-selected the sky, inverted the selection, and then bumbed yellow and red saturation to bring a little more life into the foreground. And of course my sky gradient is more aggressive than yours.

I'd be interested in seeing an unoriginal, unmanipulated version of your high-scoring lighthouse shot, btw; I'd like to sink my teeth into that one :-)

The dunes are very nice, the color seems off in the sunset, especially at the very top; the overall impact is a certain muddiness.

R.
04/24/2006 06:59:47 PM · #333
Originally posted by Bear_Music:


Here's a much more aggressive rendering of the same scene, for what it is worth. Contrast masking used twice, with the shadow mask set to soft light on the second pass. Hue/sat bumped and lightened the yellows, bumped and darkened the reds, desaturated blue and cyan a little. Slight vignetting applied and faded, USM used. NO dodging or burning.



Robt.


I think this just goes to show that Texas dry creek beds don't make for very interesting subjects in landscape photography. Sadly, the unedited version is probably closest to the way it appeared in real life. Dull, kinda grayish, washed out, and listless. But I'll keep working at it. Texas may not be "Icelandic" or "coastline" beautiful, but I still enjoy the heck out of riding around and looking at it anyway.
04/24/2006 07:44:22 PM · #334
Ok, went back through this one. worked off of the unedited RAW coversion file. No sharpening, high quality(extracted file is about 900kb). They have a couple higher settings, but file size is exponentially larger and i thought this would be good for the exercise.

1a. straighten horizon and crop(from landscape format)
1. Contrast masking for shadows and highlites(2 times)
2 Add blue/grey gradient layer to sky, set to color burn.
3. sat adjust layer: increase yellow/green/red, decrease blue/cyan
4. Contrast mask on shadows, create duplicate layer. Contrast adjustment on this layer only to make the rocks a little more dramatic and keep sky from lightening.
5. adjust levels slightly, mainly to lighten foreground
6. USM .8, 98%, 0 levels.

I did change the sky to favor gray instead of blue...



original


not sure if resulting image is better. I think some dodge/burn on sky areas in particular would help.

I'd love to see your take on the lighthouse, do you want the RAW file? It was with my 300D so I think it is about 5 meg.

mark

Message edited by author 2006-04-24 19:46:37.
04/24/2006 08:36:22 PM · #335
Originally posted by mpeters:

I'd love to see your take on the lighthouse, do you want the RAW file? It was with my 300D so I think it is about 5 meg.


Convert the RAW to a TIFF without making any adjustments at all except exposure adjustments to keep it from being blown out and WB adjustments for the most natural color, and send me the TIFF. E-mail is in profile.

R.
04/24/2006 08:38:43 PM · #336
Originally posted by Melethia:

I think this just goes to show that Texas dry creek beds don't make for very interesting subjects in landscape photography. Sadly, the unedited version is probably closest to the way it appeared in real life. Dull, kinda grayish, washed out, and listless. But I'll keep working at it. Texas may not be "Icelandic" or "coastline" beautiful, but I still enjoy the heck out of riding around and looking at it anyway.


Well, what we're trying to illustrate here is that we can "enhance" the "real life" view to see what's actually there, but hidden. I see these "flat" things in the world, and I see the colors that are lurking in them. No colors have been added, the existing colors are just enhanced.

R.
04/24/2006 09:37:29 PM · #337
Hi, I've been reading through this thread for the past few days and am trying to apply your techniques to a photo I have with a lot of sky and ocean and rocky island going through the middle... (too broke for membership, so I don't have any good place to upload photo)

I think I understand contrast masking, and adding (sky) gradients, but I was wondering how do you bring out the colors of sky and ocean without them competing each other?

I also wanted to ask you about selective contrast/color (ie: mountains vs. sky) I found the extraction tool and am messing around with "smart highlighting" and "force foreground" -also tried to mess with select color ranges and stuff, but wanted to know how you selectively contrasted/colored certain segments-- the canyons photo in particular.

(I realize you probably need to see photo to accurately give advice, so I could email it if you'd be willing) Also wanted to say I really appreciate your time in posting this thread, can't believe how much I've learned in such a short amount of time-- and something I missed each time I read through and reference within this thread

Thanx...Amanda
04/24/2006 11:03:02 PM · #338
Originally posted by amandalore:


(I realize you probably need to see photo to accurately give advice, so I could email it if you'd be willing) Also wanted to say I really appreciate your time in posting this thread, can't believe how much I've learned in such a short amount of time-- and something I missed each time I read through and reference within this thread

Thanx...Amanda


It would be best if you mailed me the unedited original version of the photo. Cpnverted from RAW to TIFF ir JPG if it was RAW to begin with.

Robt.
04/24/2006 11:44:06 PM · #339
Robert's:

My 2nd try, with masking:

I thought my head was going to explode there for a while. Thank you very much for PMing me the expanded steps, they were invaluable! My 2nd try is done with two passes of masking (masks set to vivid light and multiply), slight Hue&Sat, and the sky gradient. My goal was to get it looking like your version, and I think I got it close. Sky's not quite the same, and your may have a bit more yellow, but at least now I can feel like maybe I know what I'm doing with masking.
:-D
04/24/2006 11:55:12 PM · #340
Originally posted by OdysseyF22:

I thought my head was going to explode there for a while. Thank you very much for PMing me the expanded steps, they were invaluable! My 2nd try is done with two passes of masking (masks set to vivid light and multiply), slight Hue&Sat, and the sky gradient. My goal was to get it looking like your version, and I think I got it close. Sky's not quite the same, and your may have a bit more yellow, but at least now I can feel like maybe I know what I'm doing with masking.
:-D


Yeah that's ballpark. Part of the difference in the sky is that I actually cropped some out :-) Good job!

R.
04/25/2006 12:54:21 AM · #341
Originally posted by amandalore:

Hi, I've been reading through this thread for the past few days and am trying to apply your techniques to a photo I have with a lot of sky and ocean and rocky island going through the middle... (too broke for membership, so I don't have any good place to upload photo)

I think I understand contrast masking, and adding (sky) gradients, but I was wondering how do you bring out the colors of sky and ocean without them competing each other?

I also wanted to ask you about selective contrast/color (ie: mountains vs. sky) I found the extraction tool and am messing around with "smart highlighting" and "force foreground" -also tried to mess with select color ranges and stuff, but wanted to know how you selectively contrasted/colored certain segments-- the canyons photo in particular.

(I realize you probably need to see photo to accurately give advice, so I could email it if you'd be willing) Also wanted to say I really appreciate your time in posting this thread, can't believe how much I've learned in such a short amount of time-- and something I missed each time I read through and reference within this thread

Thanx...Amanda


Ok: here's Amanda's original, followed by her own edited version:



The good news is that she's getting control over the maksing process; that is to say, the transitions are good, there's no obvious artifacting happening, and so forth. However, the colors are going off the reservation. The water, in particular, has lost all trace of that tropical blue-green color and looks very unnatural. I suspect this can be explained by the mix-n-match series of steps she has taken, and the fact that they do not integrate well.

I opened the original (it's full-size and good to work with) and started seeing what it could do. It's actually requiring a very complex editing process because the tonalities of the image are so even. Working on the premise that I wanted to build a set of color "zones" to give this image some depth, I began with several accumulated passes of contrast masking as described several times before. To be honest, I started experimenting like crazy and sort of lost track of what I was doing, but I know in the end I kept 3 distinct passes of contrast masking, and that at least one of them used vivid light on the shadow mask.

Even so, I was finding that building up the contrast the way I wanted it to was making the water too cold of a blue. So I added a blue color-range mask and worked with that to bring the water back into a reasonable tonality, but this was affecting the sky. So then, for the first time in this series, I actually went back to marquee selections and made one for the water and another for the sky. With the sky selection, I expanded the selection by 4 pixels so it overlapped the islands a tad, eliminating any visible selection line. This was possible because I knew I'd be working only with the blue/cyan channels and they would not affect the islands at all. And so I separately adjusted the hues of the blue/cyan channels of the water and the sky to return to a reasonable depiction of the original, in terms of hue; we know the sky is going to be more of a pure blue, and the water more of an aquamarine/turquoise color. I also added some contrast enhancement in the water mask, using contrast/brightness instead of levels because changes in levels were throwing the water colors back off.

I then did an overall hue/sat to push the yellows and reds and give the islands themselves more pop, and added gradients to the sky and foreground both. And here we have it:



This was a heck of a project, fun to work with. One of the more difficult I have attempted. It's not exactly where I want it to be, I don't think, but it's getting there.

Thanks for giving me a shot at it, Amanda.

Robt.

"...And I can steer more surely for her sake
through coral barriers into the dawn,

Which now with glimmering radiance brings to view
the palm-fringed mountains, and the turquoise strip
of water over the white sand, and blue —
deep, sapphire blue, the waves about our ship..."

Message edited by author 2006-04-25 01:07:00.
04/25/2006 01:00:40 AM · #342
Wow...the island shot turned out amazing. I'm still trying to assimilate all the steps you described. I think I may find another image and give it a go, this time one that's not so dark and dull.
You the man, Robert.
04/25/2006 01:02:37 AM · #343
Originally posted by OdysseyF22:

Wow...the island shot turned out amazing. I'm still trying to assimilate all the steps you described. I think I may find another image and give it a go, this time one that's not so dark and dull.
You the man, Robert.


That shot was a HUGE undertaking. It took me 45 minutes of hard work, and this stuff is second nature to me. So don't be discouraged. Practice, practice, is all I can advise.

But lawd knows, if there was ever evidence that PP is integral to the fully-realized landscape shot, this is it :-)

R.
04/25/2006 01:33:33 AM · #344
One more example of what I've learned, then I'll sit back quietly and wait for the next lesson. :-)
Original: Masked:
I think I'm going to be going back and re-editing some pics in the next few days.
G'night for now, y'all.
04/25/2006 01:39:24 AM · #345
Originally posted by OdysseyF22:

One more example of what I've learned, then I'll sit back quietly and wait for the next lesson. :-)
Original: Masked:
I think I'm going to be going back and re-editing some pics in the next few days.
G'night for now, y'all.


That's a nice, subtle piece of work. Is there anything at all you can pull out of the black blob on the right? And a smidge of foreground gradient might not be amiss either; the water's a tad too bright straight through and out for my tastes. But that's just a personal reaction.

R.
04/25/2006 02:51:06 AM · #346
Wow! Thanx so much, I love the what the gradient did to the ocean... now I will have to spend the next few days tinkering with PS to get it to look like yours (hehehee, when really I should be doing homework and getting ready for finals week) --this photography stuff is really addicting-- :)

also wanted to add that I felt that this last post really explained the process you did in a way much easier for my "un-pro" mind to understand... Thank you

(and I assume you wrote the poem too?)

Message edited by author 2006-04-25 03:29:20.
04/25/2006 08:28:24 AM · #347
Robert, thank you so much for all the good advice given in this thread. It is certainly a very useful workshop/tutorial. It is so helpful to see the before and after shots and understand the steps taken.

Sadly I haven't had a chance to actively participate so far, but I'm hoping this weekend to at least be able to spend some time working with the contrast masking tips.

Be assured I am following every word very closely!

04/25/2006 09:01:43 AM · #348
Bear - quick question...if noise reduction is needed, where does it fall into your workflow? I saw that you normally do the contrast masking on an image where perhaps there has only been an exposure correction or say a white balance adjustment, but not on one where usm or levels adjustments have been made. So what if you have a lot of noise, where do yo take care of this?

I searched throught this whole thread and did not see mention of it in your workflow. If this is a later lesson, feel free to let me know.

Thanks,

Maya
04/25/2006 01:08:38 PM · #349
Originally posted by MayaM:

Bear - quick question...if noise reduction is needed, where does it fall into your workflow? I saw that you normally do the contrast masking on an image where perhaps there has only been an exposure correction or say a white balance adjustment, but not on one where usm or levels adjustments have been made. So what if you have a lot of noise, where do yo take care of this?

I searched throught this whole thread and did not see mention of it in your workflow. If this is a later lesson, feel free to let me know.

Thanks,

Maya


I'm not used to using noise reduction anymore, since I have the 20D, so I have not mentioned it :-) Noise reduction would be the first thing I did, if I needed it. These processes we're talking about definitely have the potential to magnify noise. I have been ignoring noise and artifacting in the sample images I have been processing, simply because they are 640-pixel images mostly and there's no getting around it at that size.

R.
04/25/2006 01:54:42 PM · #350
Thanks, I guess I need to work on my camera settings, I have the 20D also but still get a bit of noise sometimes. Still learning to use it though.

Thanks for the info.

Maya
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