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08/05/2003 10:06:25 AM · #1 |
Hi,
I am an amatuer photographer who decided to give the EOS-10D a try. I purchased it last night (with Canon's 28-105mm USL), put it in auto mode on both the camera and the lens -- and hated everything I got. I don't know much about F-stops, shutter, and apeture -- so I was hoping to use the Auto mode until I learned more.
However, I didn't get one photo out of 20 I liked! They were all blurry, or over-exposed -- not representational of what I saw in real life.
Here are my photos:
//www.housemouse.com/1980_01_01/
Is it me or do I have a bad camera? Right now I want to hug my silly point and shoot Kodak. It looks like it has better resolution -- I swear to god with only 1/2 the pixels! The 10D photos I have taken are very, very soft.
Now I know you guys out there take great photos -- even with the 10D -- so any kind advice would be appreciated. Did I get a lemon? Or am I the lemon head?
Thanks,
Renee
P.S. The subject matter of the photos are exhausted -- we look awful. Sorry!
Message edited by author 2003-08-05 10:09:22.
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08/05/2003 10:28:22 AM · #2 |
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08/05/2003 10:31:08 AM · #3 |
Hey Resiemor,
I use a canon D30 and love it. I have a few suggestions for you.
#1 what is the quality setting at. Such as Raw/Large/Small. I started out using large and fely like the photo were not sharpe enough. When I learned how to download the Raw photo it was much improved. |
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08/05/2003 10:32:19 AM · #4 |
To properly judge why the photos are that way we would need to see the exif data. Specifically shutter speed, aperture, iso and focal length. Otherwise it's just guesswork.
To properly test the camera, take it outside in good light. Put it on a tripod or solid surface, and then take some test shots. The problem may simply be related to the lack of light indoors.
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08/05/2003 10:35:43 AM · #5 |
#2 on auto you may have a slow shutter speed especially indoors so you may by getting some blur out of that. |
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08/05/2003 10:38:01 AM · #6 |
Also, one thing to consider is the minimum focusing distance of the lense.
Maybe check the tutorial on exposure. It could possibly help explain your described exposure problems.
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08/05/2003 10:38:30 AM · #7 |
Quality setting was set to "large".
For the first photo (of my husband with the mustache), here is the data:
File Name
100_0002.JPG
Camera Model Name
Canon EOS 10D
Shooting Date/Time
1/1/80 12:00:36 AM
Shooting Mode
Auto
Tv( Shutter Speed )
1/60
Av( Aperture Value )
5.6
Metering Mode
Evaluative
Exposure Compensation
0
ISO Speed
400
Lens
28.0 - 105.0mm
Focal Length
105.0mm
Image Size
3072x2048
Image Quality
Fine
Flash
On
Flash Type
Built-In Flash
Flash Exposure Compensation
0
Red-eye Reduction
Off
Shutter curtain sync
1st-curtain sync
White Balance
Auto
AF Mode
AI Focus AF
Parameters
Contrast Normal
Sharpness Normal
Color saturation Normal
Color tone Normal
Color Space
sRGB
File Size
2011KB
Custom Function
C.Fn:01-0
C.Fn:02-0
C.Fn:03-0
C.Fn:04-0
C.Fn:05-0
C.Fn:06-0
C.Fn:07-0
C.Fn:08-0
C.Fn:09-0
C.Fn:10-0
C.Fn:11-0
C.Fn:12-0
C.Fn:13-0
C.Fn:14-0
C.Fn:15-0
C.Fn:16-0
C.Fn:17-0
Drive Mode
Single-frame shooting
Owner's Name
Camera Body No.
0620311704
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08/05/2003 10:39:19 AM · #8 |
I don't see any immediately obvious camera problems. Almost all cameras in my experience overexpose on automatic settings, however much money you spend. Looks to me like camera shake, dodgy white balance settings, on-board flash problems, and some lack of sharpness that may come from elsewhere: don't know what's available in-camera, so I couldn't tell you.
Had a similar feeling when I started playing with the 5400, and that's passed now; I probably had the same experience with the 602Z before, and just can't remember it.
Persevere - and do as bod suggests. Use timer and or cable release on a tripod, and see if there's still the sharpness issue. Then investigate the on-board sharpening settings (almost all digi shots require some sharpening at some stage), and if you still have a problem then I guess there may be a fault.
ed
PS. from that data what stands out is ISO400 - which will be noisy in any camera.
Message edited by author 2003-08-05 10:40:23.
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08/05/2003 10:40:06 AM · #9 |
Thanks for this suggestion. The minimum distance is 1.6 feet. I stayed well beyond that.
I appreciate all the trouble shooting...
Renee
Originally posted by cpanaioti: Also, one thing to consider is the minimum focusing distance of the lense.
Maybe check the tutorial on exposure. It could possibly help explain your described exposure problems. |
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08/05/2003 10:41:58 AM · #10 |
I'd agree with the suggestions to try it outside - most of these shots look like they were taken in the dark. Room lighting in the evening is going to be tough - in auto mode the camera is going to limit to a 1/60s shutter, which is
1/ probably too slow for the lens you have on, depending on the zoom amount you are using (28 mm end, you can handhold at about 1/40s, 105mm end you can hand hold at about 1/250s)
2/ because it is so dark, the aperture is going to be wide open, not leaving very much depth of field, meaning that the majority of the shot is going to be out of focus. One of the big step ups from small sensor digital to digital SLR is the effect of the bigger sensor back there. Effectively it means you now have more control over the depth of field. Which means you have to take more control over it, if you want shots that are sharp from near to far. It is much easier to get that everything sharp look with a digital point and shoot - but you have no control over it.
I'd suggest trying this again in good light, and possibly switching to at least 'P' mode. If you understand a bit about shutter speeds or apertures, try Av or Tv mode - the camera will still handle most stuff for you, but you'll be starting to take a bit of control.
Try the shots in good light, and look at the exif data (the canon software I think lets you see this) Make sure you have a fast enough shutter speed, particularly if you see soft or blurry images - it could be either too slow, or how you are holding the camera.
Check the aperture - small numbers will lead to really shallow depth of field, and hence lots out of focus.
The shutter speed should be a bigger number than 1/the focal length
So if you are shooting at 50mm, you have to have at least a shutter speed of 1/50s, if you are shooting at 160mm, you need a shutter speed of 1/200s or so. (also, remember that the 10D multiplies all the 35mm numbers by 1.6 - so your 28-105 is really a 45-168mm lens for when it comes to working out these numbers.) |
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08/05/2003 10:45:04 AM · #11 |
Originally posted by Resiemor: Quality setting was set to "large".
For the first photo (of my husband with the mustache), here is the data:
File Name
100_0002.JPG
Camera Model Name
Canon EOS 10D
Shooting Date/Time
1/1/80 12:00:36 AM
Shooting Mode
Auto
Tv( Shutter Speed )
1/60
Av( Aperture Value )
5.6
Metering Mode
Evaluative
Exposure Compensation
0
ISO Speed
400
Lens
28.0 - 105.0mm
Focal Length
105.0mm
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A couple of immediate problems here - all basically caused by lack of light. The shutter speed is 1/60s (as slow as 'auto' mode will let it go) The aperture is 5.6 (I'm assuming as wide open as your lens will go at the telephoto end) The focal length is 105mm, so you are at full zoom.
If you are handholding this, you need a speed up around 1/200s to get a result without blur - 1/60s is too slow. However, there wasn't enough light to get a faster shutter speed, and the aperture couldn't open any wider. You could have increased the ISO value, but you'd end up getting a slightly noiser picture, although ISO1600 on the 10D is useable if really need to get the shot.
Basic problem though is lack of light. |
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08/05/2003 10:46:31 AM · #12 |
Also note, that 'auto' mode sets a shutter speed to get a good result with a 50mm lens - it doesn't take into consideration the focal length and standard guidelines - it just doesn't go slower than 1/60s or triggers the flash to be used |
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08/05/2003 10:48:19 AM · #13 |
Thanks for all your help. I think I am a lemon head -- this camera still takes some know how! It's not totally good in auto mode, is it?
Bummer! Luck would have it my husband has the camera with him to return it. Now I have to decide if I can learn this thing and if it is worth it!
Kodak has a great handheld, but I hate not having the depth of field control, and I am limited by the lens attachments dramatically.
Gulp.
Thanks heaps!!!!! what to do?
Renee
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08/05/2003 10:53:39 AM · #14 |
They do take more effort to get great results from than a point and shoot.
It should work quite well in P mode (main difference over 'auto' is you can control the flash) and you can turn the dials to change the aperture/shutter within the calculated range
You need to pay attention to the aperture/ shutter speed numbers to make sure they make sense (which is the problem I see in your samples - the shutter looks too slow in almost all the cases)
In general the more control you take, the more control you have over the results. I'd at least try it out for a few more days and see how you get on (at least try it outside in daylight!) - how much time do you have before you have to return it ?
Message edited by author 2003-08-05 10:54:39. |
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08/05/2003 10:56:50 AM · #15 |
If you're willing to put the time and effort into learning your way around the camera then I say keep it - the results will be well worth it in the long run. Take your time and have fun : )
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08/05/2003 03:59:10 PM · #16 |
Were all the focus points turned on? Maybe you were misfocusing also. Set it to center point only. |
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08/05/2003 05:24:31 PM · #17 |
Yes, there were multiple focal points. I need to try to set it to the center. I was thinking about that. Thanks!
Renee
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08/05/2003 05:25:14 PM · #18 |
All of what was said above, and I'll add that I am a new 10D user (6 days) and it is a significant learning curve, even for a previous (film) SLR user. I was so used to Point & Shoot lines of thought that it took a while to get my "SLR legs" back again.
Persevere, and you will be rewarded with some truly awesome pics. After only 6 days, you would have to pry my 10D from my cold, dead fingers!
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08/05/2003 07:25:50 PM · #19 |
I am nervous hanging in there...fearful I won't make the learning curve and then I'll regret spending the money.
Okay, I can do it! I will try. I trust you all know what you are doing by your photos!!! They are so cool.
Any good tips or tricks anyone can share? What should I set the apeture at in bright light, cloudy daylight, indoor day, indoor night?
I have a 28-105 canon lens.
Thanks,
Renee
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08/05/2003 07:49:47 PM · #20 |
The aperture in combination with the shutter speed determines how your image is going to look.
It doesn't matter what focal length you are shooting at (28 - 105).
Here are a couple of examples of what can be achieved.
1. If you use a large aperture (smaller the number the larger the aperture) you are limiting the depth of field a.k.a. DOF. This is affective when shooting closeups though can generate some frustration in getting the right area of the image in focus. Once you've chosen the aperature then choose the shutter speed that gives you the exposure you want.
Also, Canon EOS cameras have a mode you can use to tell the camera what range of DOF you want the the camera chooses both the aperature and shutter speed to give you what you want. This is the DEP mode. You basically focus the camera on the two boundary points and the camera does the rest (if it can).
2. Fast shutter speed - achieves stop action. Choose the aperture that gives you the exposure you want.
3. Slow shutter speed - shows motion. Choose the aperture that gives you the exposure you want.
BTW. I have an EOS film camera and it took me the longest time to get weined off of auto, even to use P.
Hang in there.
Message edited by author 2003-08-05 19:59:41. |
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08/05/2003 08:08:04 PM · #21 |
You are going to have to read the manual - I started out in auto mode and then went to P mode and then AV and Tv and now I just use M mode I have learned alot just playing with it U have to take Bunch of pictures and play with it and read about the shutter and aparture Its so much fun when you will be able to take the picture exactly as you want it to be! This is a Real camera! you are going to Have to learn! or else I would just buy a G5 or something.. But I love my camera I couldnt be any happier with it :D |
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08/05/2003 09:56:20 PM · #22 |
I am starting to think I have a lemon of a camera. I stood outside today though it is a white cloudy day -- and I cannot get ONE photo to be captured in focus. I'm going crazy.
Auto Mode just doesn't work no matter how I shoot. I think I have it perfectly focused when I manually focus the lens and that doesn't work either. I have played with center-weighted, and the different priorities and nada, zip nothing.
If you all have managed to get a clear photo in Auto mode, then I know I have a bomb. It's not possible with this unit. My 3MP Kodak is a gazillion times sharper. Something must be wrong...
Frustrated and confused,
Renee
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08/05/2003 10:06:47 PM · #23 |
Are they way out of focus or just a little soft?
Be aware that the 10D offers very little in camera sharpening. Your Kodak P&S on the other hand will do quite a bit of sharpening.
Try applying a 'Unsharp mask' filter, start with settings like:
radius 2.0, amount 80, clipping 5
This may seem a pain at first, but it really is better because once sharpening is done it cannot be undone, and it should be last in your workflow, and applied at different settings for different purposes (ie print / web display).
The same could apply to saturation and contrast 'enhancements'. The 10D is designed to give you the ingredients for a great image, not a quick and easy 'pretty good' image. |
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08/05/2003 10:10:56 PM · #24 |
I've given this same suggestion several times to people who can't make their cameras respond -
1) set the camera to P mode.
2) set the timer.
3) set the camera on a table pointed at a well lit subject.
4) half press the shutter to focus.
5) press the shutter the rest of the way
6) take hand off camera and let the timer go off.
7) download photo.
8) put it up here.
If you can't get a clear shot without holding the camera with the timer set in decent light, it's messed.
M
If you
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08/05/2003 10:15:06 PM · #25 |
If you are still getting blurry pictures - what does the exif data say the shutter speed/ aperture and focal length are.
Even if it is a bright, sunny day, and you are shooting at full zoom at 1/60s - you will not get a sharp picture.
This is the major problem with the auto modes on the Canon cameras, they don't take into account the lens you have on the camera. |
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