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03/25/2006 11:45:50 PM · #26
How does my statement not relate to QB's post?

Please read before posting.

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Are photos that win ribbons the only good photos?

Originally posted by queanbeez:

than why are all the ribbon winners photos technically good?

No, of course not. But this isn't related to what queanbeez said. Sounds like twisted words to force a play on a ill-formed logical statement.

03/25/2006 11:48:59 PM · #27
maybe you should re-read?

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

How does my statement not relate to QB's post?

Please read before posting.

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Are photos that win ribbons the only good photos?

Originally posted by queanbeez:

than why are all the ribbon winners photos technically good?

No, of course not. But this isn't related to what queanbeez said. Sounds like twisted words to force a play on a ill-formed logical statement.

03/25/2006 11:50:49 PM · #28
Originally posted by queanbeez:

uh no but i dont see mine up there..why? because i dont have the skills they do.

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Are photos that win ribbons the only good photos?

Originally posted by queanbeez:

than why are all the ribbon winners photos technically good?

Originally posted by Konador:

Making a photo isn't all about showing people what skill you have. It's about making an image that people can enjoy. Whether thats for looking bright and fun, or for emotional depth, is up to the individual looking at it.


Again, do you assume that not having ribbons is because you lack skill, or that people don't enjoy your images? There are a lot of people on here who don't have ribbons that are excellent photographers.
03/25/2006 11:51:50 PM · #29
Originally posted by queanbeez:

maybe you should re-read?

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

How does my statement not relate to QB's post?

Please read before posting.

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Are photos that win ribbons the only good photos?

Originally posted by queanbeez:

than why are all the ribbon winners photos technically good?

No, of course not. But this isn't related to what queanbeez said. Sounds like twisted words to force a play on a ill-formed logical statement.


I did, maybe you should understand what it is that you are saying before posting.
03/25/2006 11:57:04 PM · #30
just forget it..are you blind or is your bright light off? read the whole post. never said excellent photographers always do well. I said the ribbon winners have skills or they wouldnt be on the front page. obviously there are people here who havent won a ribbon yet who also have skills. duh. quit twisting my words.

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by queanbeez:

uh no but i dont see mine up there..why? because i dont have the skills they do.

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Are photos that win ribbons the only good photos?

Originally posted by queanbeez:

than why are all the ribbon winners photos technically good?

Originally posted by Konador:

Making a photo isn't all about showing people what skill you have. It's about making an image that people can enjoy. Whether thats for looking bright and fun, or for emotional depth, is up to the individual looking at it.


Again, do you assume that not having ribbons is because you lack skill, or that people don't enjoy your images? There are a lot of people on here who don't have ribbons that are excellent photographers.

03/25/2006 11:59:08 PM · #31
Originally posted by willagher:

I recently received a comment from a younger member who objected to nudity in my photo..after assuring her that it wasn't really what she thought it was, I thought that perhaps this may not be the place for the younger photographers to hone their skills, at least not those with moral objections to subject matter...I guess this would apply to anyone with the same objections. However, I did not want to discourage her from participating in the challenges..isn't their a filter for nudity?
Has anyone else received similiar comments?


I reported the same situation to the SC today. It seems wrong that children have access to nudity on this site. Filters should be used on all Photos that contain nude images. I'm not a prude. I feel nudity is appropriate on this site but children shouldn't be viewing, voting or commenting on Nude photos.

I requested that a child's vote be removed from an image I submitted for a challege that contained partial nudity. I could tell a child had voted based on a comment I received from the child.

The response from SC follows:
(the SC gave me permission to include this in Forum Posts)

"We will not be removing the vote on your photo. The only age requirement set forth by the site is that members under 13 years of age must submit parental consent before joining. After that point, every member is welcome to vote as they see fit, regardless of the status of their emotional maturity. Nudity can be quite a controversial subject for all ages and I'm sure you'll find a number of older people on the site who have an opinion similar to your commenter. This, unfortunately, is the risk that you take when submitting a photo. "

The SC said it was a DPC Administrator decision.

So As far as I can tell.... DPC thinks its OK for children to view, vote and comment on images that contain nudity.

Filters should be included for ALL images that contain nudity. Why is that so hard to understand?

03/26/2006 12:01:57 AM · #32
Anyone from SC, has the nudity filter ever been considered for voting?
03/26/2006 12:05:31 AM · #33
spazmo99 and quenbeez, please stop with the personal attacks on each other. Feel free to debate each others points, but there is no need to get personal.

~Terry
03/26/2006 12:08:06 AM · #34
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

Anyone from SC, has the nudity filter ever been considered for voting?


Yes, when it was first put in place.

We believe that putting such a filter in place would unfairly bias voting. Since those who do not like nudes would be most likely to apply the filter, the only ones left voting on it would be voters likely to give them a higher score. This would give those images an unfair advantage in the voting.

Also, there would be no way to implement this, since we don't have a chance to see challenge entries and flag them in advance. We see the challenge entries at the same time you do.

~Terry
03/26/2006 12:09:23 AM · #35
Reputable art galleries will often have nudes in them, whether paintings, sculptures, photographs or other media. I've never seen an art gallery deny entry to people under 18 because they might see some nudity. In fact I remember going on a high school excursion to see a specific photographic exhibition that included some nudity.

I would think that any opportunities that children (or adults, for that matter) had to see the body artistically and tastefully depicted in art could only help them have a positive, rather than negative, body image.

As for the suggestion that children aren't qualified to vote on photos in DPC, I find that idea profoundly offensive (aside: I'm a 35-year-old male with no children, neices or nephews). Firstly, children can react to an artwork just as an adult can - and it wouldn't surprise me if they approach art with fewer pre-conceived ideas than we adults do. Secondly, participating and voting in challenges is a good way for children and adults to learn more about photography and art - and after all, DPC is a place for us to learn and improve. And if there are any children who are distorting results with bad voting decisions, then their effect is probably outweighed by the effect of adults making bad voting decisions.

03/26/2006 12:14:20 AM · #36
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:


We believe that putting such a filter in place would unfairly bias voting. Since those who do not like nudes would be most likely to apply the filter, the only ones left voting on it would be voters likely to give them a higher score. This would give those images an unfair advantage in the voting.

~Terry


That's what I was hoping for... LOL. I can see the problems it would cause.
03/26/2006 12:15:25 AM · #37
once again i was talking about the nude photos.

Originally posted by paddles:

As for the suggestion that children aren't qualified to vote on photos in DPC, I find that idea profoundly offensive (aside: I'm a 35-year-old male with no children, neices or nephews). Firstly, children can react to an artwork just as an adult can - and it wouldn't surprise me if they approach art with fewer pre-conceived ideas than we adults do. Secondly, participating and voting in challenges is a good way for children and adults to learn more about photography and art - and after all, DPC is a place for us to learn and improve. And if there are any children who are distorting results with bad voting decisions, then their effect is probably outweighed by the effect of adults making bad voting decisions.

03/26/2006 12:16:26 AM · #38
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

Anyone from SC, has the nudity filter ever been considered for voting?


Yes, when it was first put in place.

We believe that putting such a filter in place would unfairly bias voting. Since those who do not like nudes would be most likely to apply the filter, the only ones left voting on it would be voters likely to give them a higher score. This would give those images an unfair advantage in the voting.

Also, there would be no way to implement this, since we don't have a chance to see challenge entries and flag them in advance. We see the challenge entries at the same time you do.

~Terry


Give the person submitting an image for a challenge a box to check when uploading if it contains nudity. A Nudity Filter specifically for children based on the age in their profile could be implemented on challenges without skewing the results unfairly.
03/26/2006 12:17:31 AM · #39
Originally posted by seenosun:

So As far as I can tell.... DPC thinks its OK for children to view, vote and comment on images that contain nudity.

That's not quite it. What DPC says is that DPC allows nudity within certain parameters, and that parents of children under 13 need to take that into consideration when they give permission for their child to have an account.

It is the parents who decide whether their own child sees nudity or not. I don't need anyone else to decide for me what photos my son sees.

Parents (and anyone else) can turn on the filter if they so choose, but everyone signs up with the foreknowledge that this site displays photos with nudity. If you can't live with that, then this may not be the right site for you.

To address the point about PMs to minors: the parents can use pretty much any email address they want when they register the child's account -- it need not actually be the child's personal account -- so they'd definitely be able to pre-screen all PMs if they desire. This is actually one advantage of NOT having an internal mail system, but rather using anonymously-directed email.
03/26/2006 12:17:35 AM · #40
Originally posted by seenosun:



So As far as I can tell.... DPC thinks its OK for children to view, vote and comment on images that contain nudity.

Filters should be included for ALL images that contain nudity. Why is that so hard to understand?


DPC is not and should not be the body responsible for censoring what children have access to.... that task rests with the parents of the child, who would have.... or should have... familiarized themselves with the various aspects of this site prior to providing consent.

Ray

03/26/2006 12:18:22 AM · #41
I always take a handfull of bed sheets with me whenever I visit an art museum, and drape them over any offensive paintings before my wife allows our daughter into a gallery. Given proper vigalence it is possible to keep a child ignorant of the human form utill she is... well forever i guess;)

If this site can offend, the rest of the net must be a real worry, google images is a real minefeild
03/26/2006 12:19:53 AM · #42
Originally posted by seenosun:

Filters should be included for ALL images that contain nudity. Why is that so hard to understand?


It's not hard to understand - but the point is that while some people, particularly Americans, see this as axiomatic, the same does not apply to all people (or even all Americans).

The question is: why should filters be included for ALL images that contain nudity? You need to provide an answer that suggests why children should not be able to see nudity, not just "to stop them seeing nudity".

Message edited by author 2006-03-26 00:21:10.
03/26/2006 12:22:22 AM · #43
Originally posted by seenosun:

Give the person submitting an image for a challenge a box to check when uploading if it contains nudity. A Nudity Filter specifically for children based on the age in their profile could be implemented on challenges without skewing the results unfairly.


And how do we deal with the inherent bias in voting that comes from presenting certain images to a non-random subset of the voters?

~Terry
03/26/2006 12:22:50 AM · #44
Originally posted by seenosun:

So As far as I can tell.... DPC thinks its OK for children to view, vote and comment on images that contain nudity.


Well, after recieving a DQ for sex acts in a challenge photo, I think DPC does a good job of deciding what is too graphic for the audience.

And, I don't fault them at all for DQ'ing it.

03/26/2006 12:25:42 AM · #45
BTW: Parents and kids are flocking to Bodies: The Exhibition -- currently in New York, but probably coming to a museum near you. This is somewhat more than mere nudity ...

If you listen to the broadcast, you'll hear that pretty much all the parents thought it was a profoundly moving and educational experience for both themselves and their kids, while a few found it too disturbing.

Bottom line is that "one size does not fit all" and we should give people th efreedom to decide for themselves what they experience.
03/26/2006 12:26:47 AM · #46
Originally posted by paddles:

Originally posted by seenosun:

Filters should be included for ALL images that contain nudity. Why is that so hard to understand?


It's not hard to understand - but the point is that while some people, particularly Americans, see this as axiomatic, the same does not apply to all people (or even all Americans).

The question is: why should filters be included for ALL images that contain nudity? You need to provide an answer that suggests why children should not be able to see nudity, not just "to stop them seeing nudity".


If a child lacks the maturity to understand the human body is accepted as an art form on this site, they shouldn't be making punitive votes on Nude images in Challenges. That would actually prevent an unfair bias in voting!
03/26/2006 12:30:49 AM · #47
Originally posted by seenosun:

If a child lacks the maturity to understand the human body is accepted as an art form on this site, they shouldn't be making punitive votes on Nude images in Challenges. That would actually prevent an unfair bias in voting!


Some users don't like black and white, an accepted art form, and vote them lower.

Some users don't like shallow depth of field, an accepted artistic technique, and vote it lower.

Some users don't like nudity, an accepted art form, and vote it lower.

How is one any different than the other?

~Terry
03/26/2006 12:34:16 AM · #48
Originally posted by seenosun:

Originally posted by paddles:

Originally posted by seenosun:

Filters should be included for ALL images that contain nudity. Why is that so hard to understand?


It's not hard to understand - but the point is that while some people, particularly Americans, see this as axiomatic, the same does not apply to all people (or even all Americans).

The question is: why should filters be included for ALL images that contain nudity? You need to provide an answer that suggests why children should not be able to see nudity, not just "to stop them seeing nudity".


If a child lacks the maturity to understand the human body is accepted as an art form on this site, they shouldn't be making punitive votes on Nude images in Challenges. That would actually prevent an unfair bias in voting!


OK, that is a reasonable argument to make. However, the decision to prevent all children from seeing nudity here assumes that all children (or at least, a significant majority) would make punitive votes on nude images. I don't think that is an assumption that can be safely made on the basis of one or two votes/comments.

I'd also point out that anyone who posts anything that is controversial in any sense (nudity, patriotism, et al) or sacrifices certain technical aspects for artistic aspects risks being voted down by people who either dislike the controversial matter or don't see the artistic statement. Any artist, no matter how great, risks being misunderstood.
03/26/2006 12:35:07 AM · #49
Originally posted by seenosun:

If a child lacks the maturity to understand the human body is accepted as an art form on this site, they shouldn't be making punitive votes on Nude images in Challenges.

You make a completely unfounded assumption that this is the case. There are not very many kids who vote, but to paint them all with the same brush is patently unfair. There are plently of "adults" at this site who don't particularly appreciate the unclothed human form -- or clothed for that matter -- as "art" either ...
03/26/2006 12:36:04 AM · #50
Originally posted by Spazmo99:

How does my statement not relate to QB's post?

Please read before posting.

Thank you kindly for the advice. For the record, I have read this thread to the point of my posting, and generally double-check before posting a response. I stand by my response as being quite valid. Of course, that's JMO. ;^)
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