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03/24/2006 02:34:58 PM · #1 |
I'm trying to pick my first SLR to buy and would appreciate any kind of input on the subject. I really have narrowed it down to the Nikon D50 and the Cannon EOS-350D. Any suggestions?
Message edited by author 2006-03-24 22:25:20. |
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03/24/2006 02:50:27 PM · #2 |
| Get to a shop where you can hold them. Feel them in your hands and the layout of the controls. Go with what feels most natural to you. They're pretty comparable cameras and you want to be comfortable when you're shooting. |
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03/24/2006 02:59:30 PM · #3 |
| IMO, both are very good cameras, can't go far wrong with either one. The 350D costs a little more and has a sensor that will provide a couple hundred more pixels on each axis with respect to the Nikon D50, to be precise: 3456 X 2304 vs. 3008 X 2000. The Nikon sensor is slightly larger and has fewer pixels which gives it slightly lower image noise. The 350D has a broader ISO range and slightly more useful features. Both have very aggressive low pass filters builtin which tends to negate any significant difference in image quality. If price difference is no object, probably be happier with the Canon. |
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03/24/2006 04:53:13 PM · #4 |
I faced this decision a few months ago, except it was the Nikon d70 I was thinking about.
I decided to go with the Canon because of the wider variety of lenses and more megapixels... as my friend says... megapixel lust won out at the end of the day:) |
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03/24/2006 08:31:34 PM · #5 |
| Thanks for the great insight so far. As of now I'm taking pictures with my phone, and if I'm lucky I get my sister's camera. But I just started here so I've only used my phone and so I can't wait to get a new camera. Thanks again guys. |
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03/25/2006 07:54:57 AM · #6 |
| Just got myself a 350D a few months ago. Must say I am extremely happy with it. Feels good, you can start off fairly basically if you want to and build up to use all the features that it has.I had a Canon SLR -so my old lens fit as well. I can't compare to the Nikon but I must say I'm extremely happy with it and the learning curve wasn't as steep as I thought - although I suspect the Nikon would be similar. |
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03/25/2006 12:36:14 PM · #7 |
| Like someone else said go to the store and hold them. I decided to get the 350D but I went to the store and held it and hated it. It just didn't feel comfortable and actually felt cheap to me. Then I held the D50 and ahhh that's what a grip should feel like. Plus the d50 just felt so much more solid. Good luck with your decision. |
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03/25/2006 12:37:47 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by A4wheelin:
Like someone else said go to the store and hold them. I decided to get the 350D but I went to the store and held it and hated it. It just didn't feel comfortable and actually felt cheap to me. Then I held the D50 and ahhh that's what a grip should feel like. Plus the d50 just felt so much more solid. Good luck with your decision. |
Very true. My experience exactly (except for the I was looking at the 300d and the d70. |
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03/25/2006 12:55:49 PM · #9 |
The Nikon D50 is a nice camera. I've tried it and like the way it feels better than my XT. I've seen and processed the RAW shots and think it's nice as well. The XT has better ultimate image quality, but this isn't a that make s big deal in the real world.
The Nikon takes a SD card, is cheaper (just about $500 for the body), feels nicer.
The XT is about $750 for the body only, has 8 vs 6MP, has a slightly better image quality and lower noise at higher ISO.
If it was me I'd go for a Nikon D50 with a Sigma 17-70 to get started. This set up should cost under $900 and would be a great camera/lens combo. If you want to move up, then you have all the Nikon bodies and lenses. If you don't, then you have a very nice camera and a great all around lens.
If image quality and 8MP is important to you, then I'd get the XT with the Sigma 17-70 as well. But this combo will cost about $1200.
I know the 18-55 kit lens that come with the camera would make the set up cheaper, but I'd avoid those as they are the limiting factor on the camera and you'd get better shots with a better lens.
Message edited by author 2006-03-25 12:56:58.
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03/26/2006 09:42:59 AM · #10 |
Yido always makes a good point.
Just a small clarification on an earlier point made about the D50 which has larger pixels. While this is true, this does not mean that the D50 has lower noise than the 350XT due to the fact that the Canon uses a CMOS type sensor which has significantly less power consumption. This allows the Canon sensor to generate significantly less heat, therefore less noise.
As for the feeling of the camera, I've been in plenty of camera stores and felt plenty of bodies (uhh camera bodies that is :) and I've found that whatever you end up using, you can usually get used to (unless you REALLY hate it).
If you want to move up later on, Nikon lenses will cost you more in the long run. If you go 3rd party, it doesn't matter which brand.
If you do go with the D50, you might consider checking out the Nikon 18-70 too which was the kit lens for the D70. Another decent lens choice that may be more available depending on where you shop.
I always recommend people to look at the Konica Minolta series before the Nikon if they think that they will not be moving up in bodies, and would probably be happy with a smaller collection of lenses, especially if this includes a good number of 3rd party lenses. |
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03/26/2006 10:35:16 AM · #11 |
I just got a D50 myself, and was deciding between the two you've mentioned. Everyone here has already listed the main pros/cons that I had considered... memory type, how it feels, mp, cost, lenses etc. I ended up getting a D50 kit with a 28-80 lens, which is working really well as a starter lens and it was only $600.
One thing that stands out to me though, is that unless you have a strong background in photography, the learning curve for either dslr will probably be huge considering you're currently using a camera phone. There are lots of point and shoot cameras out there that are great which could get you started if cost is a factor. You'd have more of what you need in a nice little package without having to get extra lenses and accessories.
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03/26/2006 11:07:25 AM · #12 |
Originally posted by eschelar:
Yido always makes a good point.
Just a small clarification on an earlier point made about the D50 which has larger pixels. While this is true, this does not mean that the D50 has lower noise than the 350XT due to the fact that the Canon uses a CMOS type sensor which has significantly less power consumption. This allows the Canon sensor to generate significantly less heat, therefore less noise.
As for the feeling of the camera, I've been in plenty of camera stores and felt plenty of bodies (uhh camera bodies that is :) and I've found that whatever you end up using, you can usually get used to (unless you REALLY hate it).
If you want to move up later on, Nikon lenses will cost you more in the long run. If you go 3rd party, it doesn't matter which brand.
If you do go with the D50, you might consider checking out the Nikon 18-70 too which was the kit lens for the D70. Another decent lens choice that may be more available depending on where you shop.
I always recommend people to look at the Konica Minolta series before the Nikon if they think that they will not be moving up in bodies, and would probably be happy with a smaller collection of lenses, especially if this includes a good number of 3rd party lenses. |
I read a Popular Photography Review/Test a while back in which the D50 by far out performed the 350D in terms of noise. I'm not sure how the technology factored in, but those were their results. They went so far as to say that the 350D's noise was unacceptable at ISO-1600. These are tests in the Popular Photography Digital Imaging Guide, Winter 2006. |
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03/26/2006 12:53:28 PM · #13 |
One thing that is oft overlooked (mentioned) with the D50/D70 is the availability of a Vertical Battery Grip...
Depending on the direction you are going (and how long you see yourself keeping one body). If you are planning on staying with the body for awhile a Vert Grip is a nice option.
I don't know how many here use Vertical Grips but for me I am at a point that I don't think I would want to live w/o it on my 20D. A VBG makes a long day of switching between Portrait and Landscape a whole lot easier. The extra battery is nice, and it add a bit of weight to balance the camera. Just my opinion.
I haven't held a Rebel 350 with a Vertical Grip but I imagine it would make it feel a little beefier.
Andy
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03/26/2006 11:22:00 PM · #14 |
Kearock, been over this one a few times in the forums.
#1 I have never trusted a magazine that relies on marketing as a primary source of income (yes, there ARE magazines out there that aren't full of ads, but they are rare and not always entirely trustworthy to boot, just a better place to start). This is ESPECIALLY true when their results fly in the face of both logic and results obtained from very detailed tests by more trustworthy sources.
#2 Phil Askey puts out some VERY detailed testing reports that take into account 98% of what you would ever need to consider in the noise area. This includes treatment of Luminance vs chrominance noise as well as stable lighting conditions across the tests as well as *most importantly* noise reduction effects examined.
There is a HUGE difference between a camera that has "low noise" due to strong Noise Reduction and a camera that has low noise due to a sensor that generates a very low signal to noise ratio.
His website (www.dpreview.com) will show you in detail how and (partly) why the 350XT is superior in noise performance to the D50. This test was done under highly stable and verifiable circumstances.
Another website (steves digicams) that is often quoted in this issue provides very loose "evidence" based on pictures taken outdoors, with virtually no really solid reference that could be checked by anyone else. Further, he glosses over many deeper issues. Further, closer inspection will show that he doesn't actually make any claims of noise performance being better or worse because he himself understands that his testing was not something to make such assumptions on.
Heat and electrical interference cause Noise interference.
It is well known and widely acknowledged that CCD sensors create more heat than CMOS and therefore are susceptible to more noise with possible exception being given to pictures taken in the first few moments of a camera being turned on. It is unreasonable to assume that this is a normal pattern of use, so is irrelevant in this consideration.
You can find this information quite easily by doing a quick google on CCD and CMOS. It will explain a little bit about how they work and why they are preferred.
The bottom line of course is that both cameras do provide very good noise performance. It's just that it's not accurate to say that the Nikon is better in the noise department.
Indeed, if any magazine states that the noise produced by either of these cameras is "unacceptable" at ISO 1600, where they specifically state that another camera is not, then that right away is a good indication that there's a significant bias at play. Compare to ISO 1600 film and you will see why.
Message edited by author 2006-03-26 23:29:02. |
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03/26/2006 11:25:58 PM · #15 |
And just to muddy the water I'll point out that Popphoto's recent test of entry level dslr's found the Canon 350D displayed the most noise of each of the tested cameras and also described it's ISO1600 as unuseable.
cheers,
bazz.
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03/26/2006 11:29:41 PM · #16 |
Any links to show any sort of proof or testing information?
I combed their website and found no mention of this. It must have been a magazine only article...?
I don't know because I don't get this magazine and can't view it here. As mentioned before, it sounds fishy because it flies in the face of detailed tests carried out by less partial sources.
Much more so when you consider the heavy noise reduction employed by the Olympus series of cameras for obvious reasons. It is highly unlikely that the 350XT could be found at the bottom of the heap compared to that "entry level" cam.
Message edited by author 2006-03-26 23:40:16. |
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03/26/2006 11:45:44 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by awpollard:
One thing that is oft overlooked (mentioned) with the D50/D70 is the availability of a Vertical Battery Grip... Andy |
Not sure if it is out yet for the D50 but there is a thrid part vertical grip for the D70:
Hoodman HVPG-D70 Vertical Grip/Battery Holder for Nikon D70 & D70s
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03/27/2006 10:12:45 AM · #18 |
Yes, I've seen that vertical grip. It uses an external cable to do the actuation. Not a real issue, but worth knowing.
I also believe the D50 does not have this yet. |
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