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04/29/2002 02:12:02 AM · #51 |
Originally posted by AnAUTiger:
I am way too used to shooting a good SLR with lenses! If anyone wants to donate a D30 or even a D60 to me, I will be more than happy to take it.
Believe me, there's no proof that a d-30 will help. I'm living proof a great camera still doesn't make a great photographer. If Canon could see my photos, I bet they'd be cringing and smacking their foreheads for selling me the thing....
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04/29/2002 09:38:40 AM · #52 |
Originally posted by langdon:
Originally posted by AnAUTiger:
[i]OK ... simplify ... imagine yourself an ant. How would you see the world if you looked up?
Exactly.
[/i]
Well, I suppose if you were an ant and you were out in the middle of nowhere and you looked up, you probably wouldn't see much right in front of you. Challenge did not state just how far away you were supposed to be from what you were looking at.
Yes, I was disqualified because I supposedly did not follow the "perspective" of the challenge. I was disappointed, and probably could have even understood until I saw some of the photo's that were submitted and not disqualified.
Now, I'm upset. I fail to see how two chicks on a scooter that shows no ground and the photographer is obviously looking straight at them is somehow in the perspective of "from the ground up".
From where I was, which was laying on the ground at the water edge and looking up, is exactly what I saw and what I photographed.
I took probably over 200 shots this week, and came up with some pretty good shots, but, for example, because there was a rust stain on a rocket, I felt that any good votes would be taken down because of the stain. It's getting to be a little frustrating trying to take pictures and compete with more experienced photographers who offer no help and nit-pic at the less experienced. |
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04/29/2002 10:01:28 AM · #53 |
Originally posted by cinnery:
I took probably over 200 shots this week, and came up with some pretty good shots, but, for example, because there was a rust stain on a rocket, I felt that any good votes would be taken down because of the stain. It's getting to be a little frustrating trying to take pictures and compete with more experienced photographers who offer no help and nit-pic at the less experienced.
This is where I think splitting the competition up into leagues would help, even splitting into just two leagues, People would be able to vote on the lower league with the understanding that the photographers in that league are amateurs/beginners who are trying to improve their photography, and can comment accordingly.
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04/29/2002 10:08:07 AM · #54 |
My camera club does this... We have A and B class entries into all of our competitions. Class A is for more seasoned photogrpahers and class B is for the novice photographers. We are allowed to participate in either group at the beginning, but once we enter into the A group, we are not allowed to go back to B.
the drawback to this philosophy is that the B class photographers rarely get inspired to try their hand in the A group. if they are winning in B, they are more content with winning that increasing the ante in the competitions...
* This message has been edited by the author on 4/29/2002 10:10:35 AM. |
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04/29/2002 10:11:00 AM · #55 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
My camera club does this... We have A and B class entries into all of our competitions. Class A is for more seasoned photogrpahers and class B is for the novice photographers. We are allowed to participate in either group at the beginning, but once we enter into the A group, we are not allowed to go back to B.
That's probably quite a good way to do it, people get to select which group they are in themselves. I'd hate to think there was some forced catagorisation.
I know I find it hard when making comments because you have no indication of how much the person taking the picture knows or wants to learn |
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04/29/2002 10:54:28 AM · #56 |
I think it is perfectly fine the way it is. I think that splitting up into more than one group would complicate things and take a lot of the 'challenge' out of it. Sure, new photographers may not do as well in the beginning but they will improve and there is a lot of time to improve. We are only submitting one picture a week and that should allow people plenty of time to study and learn and improve their photography from week to week. Those who are serious about learning will get there. I don't want to hammer this saying to death but this really should be about learning to improve our photography in a fun way while being able to discuss all of it with other people. It's seems that if you actually win than that should just be icing on the cake. One little bit of advice that I have learned is to first learn the rules and understand why those rules are there before you go and start breaking all of the rules in the name of art.
Tim |
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04/29/2002 11:00:42 AM · #57 |
| I'm trying to learn here as well. I haven't been able to draw much learning material from the comments i get on my photos though. I'm learning more by viewing other people's work than I am from the feedback that I get. The feedback would be a great learning tool if more people posted useful feedback. |
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04/29/2002 11:05:34 AM · #58 |
This is all fine and good except that we come back to "personal perspectives". Mine is different than yours. So disqualify mine because I don't look at things the way you do.
Regardless of how many groups there are, you still have this problem. I think photo's should stand as they are submitted and disqualified only if said photo has been altered illegally. |
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04/29/2002 11:06:20 AM · #59 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
I'm trying to learn here as well. I haven't been able to draw much learning material from the comments i get on my photos though. I'm learning more by viewing other people's work than I am from the feedback that I get. The feedback would be a great learning tool if more people posted useful feedback.
Maybe we need to have some sort of 'interactive discussion' the pictures then - if you want more involved feedback, try posting the picture as a new topic in the forums and ask for specific comments/ critique/ discussion. Might get more comments in a more 'interactive' fashion that could be helpful to yourself and others ?
I certainly find when I'm doing comments that its hard to establish how much to say/ not to say without any context of who took it and what they understand and so on.
You can link to your entry using the [img ] tags, so it doesn't even require more storage space, just bandwidth.... :)
* This message has been edited by the author on 4/29/2002 11:07:08 AM. |
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04/29/2002 11:11:30 AM · #60 |
For those of you who need the reminder, you are not allowed to link to a photograph in a challenge whose results have not been released yet.
Drew |
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04/29/2002 11:14:15 AM · #61 |
| i have a question that i need answered so that i can correctly judge several of these photos. i see several pictures that are obviously looking straight up with no real perspective angle. are these really fitting the challenge? I would say no, but i would like some input |
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04/29/2002 11:20:07 AM · #62 |
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04/29/2002 11:31:52 AM · #63 |
Folks...I would hate to think any of you are letting the "competition" do anything more than inspire you.
Art ain't a track meet. Meaning there is never a clear "winner"..Thank God. I am sure we can agree on what is generally a good photo and what needs more help but beyond that I hope we are not gettin hung up on who is winning or losing etc..
I look at the challenge as a way to make me look at the world outside my comfort range. And maybe..out of the hundred or so photographers here I might get a different view of things that makes me say...cool...:-) |
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04/29/2002 11:37:11 AM · #64 |
One of the problems with commenting on pictures is that we can only see that one picture. It is far different from either seeing several different pictures of the subject from different persectives or to actually be at the scene and offer tips on how something can be photographed. Sometimes I believe a photo needs something but I'm not sure because I don't know the scene from where it was taken. I have no point of reference. I try to write what I can but I can't always say if a photo can be better or not without more information.
What if each week a picture was chosen by the administrators for critique. The photographer could supply any other pictures that might support his/her case along with his comments on why they took that particular photo. Maybe it could be the photo that got the most comments, the least comments, or totally random. Could such a thing work? Or would it just turn into all of us throwing out different opinions that may or may not be helpful?
Tim |
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04/29/2002 11:40:47 AM · #65 |
Originally posted by drewmedia:
For those of you who need the reminder, you are not allowed to link to a photograph in a challenge whose results have not been released yet.
Drew
I'm new at this site (2 weeks) and would appreciate your posting (or pointing me to) a primer on how to use the features in the forums; formatting, linking, etc. I don't have a lot of time and would like to do it right the first time.
I think, from reading the above comments, that the biggest "split" here is among those who are into "composing" a photo for the challenge, and those who "find" a photo which is suitable.
Both of my entries happen to be shot while driving down the freeway, holding the camera out at arm's length to the right and shooting through the passenger-side windshield. Both photos averaged about 4, but almost all the comments were about how bothered people were about the dirty windshield or reflections.
I didn't even crop my second entry -- and I consider that a remarkable shot under the circumstances.
I'm not upset about my scores -- they're in line with what I'd grade myself -- but I'm a little concerned that people place too much emphasis on technical issues rather than composition and thematic appropriateness.
I would not even consider marking down the rocket photo because of a stain on the rocket -- the subject was not "sell this rocket." As for my photo (Ramps) -- I have about 3-4 hours/week to give to photography and this project. If some contractor says "Yeah, we can sell some concrete with that" I assure you, I'll re-shoot with better lenses and no windshield!
Considering that this is supposed to be an open competetion, and we know folks have a wide range of equipment and experience, I suggest that we score and comment apropos the situation.
* This message has been edited by the author on 4/29/2002 11:42:08 AM.
* This message has been edited by the author on 4/29/2002 11:49:12 AM. |
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04/29/2002 11:42:20 AM · #66 |
| Nope, this ain't no track meet! I don't care if I win, I just want my photo to be included and not disqualified because my view is different that all 104 of ya'll... |
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04/29/2002 11:46:22 AM · #67 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
I'm new at this site (2 weeks) and would appreciate your posting (or pointing me to) a primer on how to use the features in the forums; formatting, linking, etc. I don't have a lot of time and would like to do it right the first time.
The only thing off limits is discussing your specific entry to the challenge (or in the case mentioned above, actually linking straight to it)
but I'm a little concerned that people place too much emphasis on technical issues rather than composition and thematic appropriateness.
I think you'll have a tough time convincing everyone that technical issues related to your photograph shouldn't be counted. We are, however, in the process of working on skill levels. Hopefully, that will keep everyone happy :)
Drew |
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04/29/2002 11:55:41 AM · #68 |
Originally posted by GordonMcGregor:
Maybe we need to have some sort of 'interactive discussion' the pictures then - if you want more involved feedback, try posting the picture as a new topic in the forums and ask for specific comments/ critique/ discussion. Might get more comments in a more 'interactive' fashion that could be helpful to yourself and others ?
I certainly find when I'm doing comments that its hard to establish how much to say/ not to say without any context of who took it and what they understand and so on.
Gordon,
I agree with you. I have been reluctant to leave critical comments. Some people complain about receiving, and seem very unapreciative if negative comments are attached to their entries. Others seem to be very open to critical comments. The easy, and least controversial, mode of operation is to not comment negatively. After all this is supposed to be fun, so I surely don't want to get into a war of words with someone I'm actually trying to help (at least in the small ways I am capable of helping). I think your idea of a seperate thread for those who desire critique is an excellent one.
Dave |
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04/29/2002 11:56:59 AM · #69 |
Originally posted by drewmedia:
I think you'll have a tough time convincing everyone that technical issues related to your photograph shouldn't be counted. We are, however, in the process of working on skill levels. Hopefully, that will keep everyone happy :)
Drew[/i]
I think technical quality SHOULD be considered, but I myself would give it a lower priority than the other criteria. For example, a shot I really like with a technical flaw might go from 8 to 6, not 8 to 3.
It's also OK for other folks to consider technical merit more important than I do -- so long as they recognize the equal validity of either method of scoring.
Maybe instead of splitting the group, split the scoring like they do for ice skating (to cite a horribly corrupt example) -- let folks give each photo two scores: "artistic impression" and "technical mertit."
That way people won't have to waste their precious commenting time on mundane issues -- they could score the photo 7/3 and move on...
PS: Can you make the text composition box on the EDIT/COMPOSE POST page just a little bit wider? It's only about 1-1/2 inches wide in my browser window (NS4.7/PC), so it's hard to tell what you're writing.
* This message has been edited by the author on 4/29/2002 12:01:56 PM.
* This message has been edited by the author on 4/29/2002 12:04:09 PM. |
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04/29/2002 12:11:11 PM · #70 |
Originally posted by cinnery:
Regardless of how many groups there are, you still have this problem. I think photo's should stand as they are submitted and disqualified only if said photo has been altered illegally.
Sorry I didn’t mean for the league idea to be an answer to the issue of perception of the challenge and your disqualification, but to answer your sub-point of nit picking by more experienced photographers.
I do agree with you if a photo isn't perceived to meet the challenge then this would be represented by the votes and comments made by users, and therefore the picture shouldnt need to be disqualified.
* This message has been edited by the author on 4/29/2002 12:16:17 PM. |
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04/29/2002 12:20:24 PM · #71 |
Originally posted by drewmedia:
For those of you who need the reminder, you are not allowed to link to a photograph in a challenge whose results have not been released yet.
Drew
Yup, I wasn't thinking that people would do that, I was considering the case where people wanted more constructive feedback on pictures that they'd entered for previous challenges. |
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