| Author | Thread |
|
|
03/13/2006 05:54:11 PM · #1 |
I sometimes wonder if the idea of new challenges every week really helps photographers develop in the way the site goals were originally phrased. Certainly as a beginner, trying lots of different styles and genres can be very helpful. The challenges force you to explore new areas, try new things, explore the whole gamut of what photography can be about.
But quite quickly it can start maybe being detrimental (if dpc is all you do - if not, then this isn't written to you) It is hard (impossible) to do anything really interesting and creative with one week of lead time. I find it takes me a year or two to work through all the really obvious cliches in an idea and maybe attempt something bordering on new or interesting (at least for me) I can spend a long, long time working on the common cliches, but I have to do them before I can get them out of my system and try doing something new. With a week to think about it, I might be able to do a great rendition of a standard cliche but creatively find it difficult to move on. Particularly if the next week it is a new, potentially cliched area to explore.
So this rapid switching of creative attention to new or poorly explored [for the photographer] areas might just lead to continually bobbing along on the surface of potential areas and styles of photography, never taking the time to really dive deeply in to a subject area, to work the subjects, get through the mature interpretations or re-implementations of another's vision and truely do something new.
Some repeat the same themes over and over and obviously improve by the practice. If you aren't careful there is a trap where doing new challenges every week never lets you really improve or reach your potential.
|
|
|
|
03/13/2006 06:06:19 PM · #2 |
| I think we should occassionally do monthly challenges where everyone can submit up to three photos, and see which one does the best. |
|
|
|
03/13/2006 06:07:58 PM · #3 |
I've always been in favor of an extra layer of challenges that repeat the same dozen-or-so "technical" challenges over and over again, on a rotating basis. I believe that regulalrly repeating such things as "shallow DOF", "B/W", "Rule of Thirds", "Centered Composition", "Leading Lines", and so forth would be of great benefit to the community.
When we first introduced the dual-open challenges, I thought that was where they were going; one technical, one more open-ended.
Robt.
|
|
|
|
03/13/2006 06:10:43 PM · #4 |
I never really thought of it that way. I have always been really creative. My forte has always been crafts, etc. Photography just is one more extension of that for me. So for me, although I may be inspired by others shots, I only try them once or twice and then move on to my own renditions which at least I believe are just as creative if not more so then the original photo that inspired me. In that, I feel I do move on to bigger and better things and ideas with each challenge.
I'm the type of person that simply MUST do something new every now and then. Even when I did hand crafts, I just couldn't make the same exact thing over and over but what I did offer at my table was a wide variety of crafted objects. If I stay on one thing for too long, I get bored REAL fast. But sure, one week or so I was all into water shots and drops. Now it is long exposures. At one time it was beach shots, then I longed for a trip to the zoo another week. But that is what I love about photography. With the same equipment I can still change my interests and have it work. I don't have to switch from yarn to wood as with crafting creativity, for example.
My signature says it all. There really is no way of accomplishing a finished canvas when it comes to photography. The ideas and opportunities are really endless. I just think its all up to the mind of each photographer and how creativly their mind can work.
Rose
|
|
|
|
03/13/2006 06:17:02 PM · #5 |
| I agree with Gordon that a one week lead time is too restrictive to truly explore a challenge, but it would probably get boring for most members if the period was much longer. Always a compromise between holding everyone's interest and acheiving higher quality. Perhaps one challenge each month that lasts for the month would provide a balance while continuing the present schedule. I know we have this type challenge several times a year and I always look forward to those, but every month would just be great! |
|
|
|
03/13/2006 06:19:22 PM · #6 |
Actually, I think I'm being misunderstood. I'm not suggesting a challenge to address this or thinking that more challenges need to be added. I'm suggesting that if you want to do something really interesting that you could maybe commit to a particular subject for a year or so and really explore it.
There's a whole world that isn't dpchallenge. I'm suggesting that if the expanse of your photography is dictated by the weekly theme then you are missing out on the creative opportunities within just one of the themes. It isn't so much a lack of creativity that results, as a lack of focus. If your mind and attention is constantly flitting off to the next shiny thing as a subject, then maybe you'll never really pay enough attention to do something truly interesting.
Message edited by author 2006-03-13 18:23:49. |
|
|
|
03/13/2006 06:30:40 PM · #7 |
I understand the concept.
As far as challenges are concerned, in order to realize what Gordon is saying, it would require doing the exact same challenge over and over... maybe 6 to 10 weeks in a row. It's a great idea for anyone who is really interested in learning a theme or a technique, but I can already hear the cries of 'boredom'.
|
|
|
|
03/13/2006 06:33:31 PM · #8 |
Oh, I don't know. Let's take the Shallow DOF challenge for example. I rarely saw the technique used prior to the challenge, or even knew about it really. However, once the challenge was here, and long after it was over, for many challenges afterwards and even at other sites by some of the same members, I saw many a photo entered using the Shallow DOF technique.
I think it does stick with people. They learned the technique, such as myself. They carry it with them and use it in their every day shooting long after a challenge is gone. I don't think it takes anyone weeks or a year to explore a technique. Or am I just speaking for me? I don't know. I am still working on my long exposures, and ironically I just started doing so before this latest 2-second challenge. So I think people are eager to learn new techniques, and they learn them for the challenges, and then carry it with them and continue to use them. I really don't think anyone needs a year or even a month.
With that, I am all for at least one technique challenge along with other themes each month at least. Not a problem. Just more to learn. But I wouldn't want it to be on just DOF or Shallow DOF each month for a year. LOL....A different techique each month is cool.
OR maybe someone could actually set up an online course that someone maybe wants to tackle where you would have lessons on a specific technique and do it here at DPC as a side thing. Ask Council's permission. Let's say a recent challenge technique like the long exposure. You could have those that want in on the course enter their shots in a little challenge just for the students who sign up and/or just for critique or part of the course assignments. You know, just something off the cuff, but ran by a competant photographer here at DPC. This way as the challenges move on, those that want to stay with a particular technique to learn can do so by that route. Have it be like 6 weeks long or something. Have questions and answers, assignments, etc. Just a thought.
Rose
|
|
|
|
03/13/2006 06:36:29 PM · #9 |
There is always the "BEST of" Yearly ;-)
|
|
|
|
03/13/2006 06:45:00 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by Rose8699:
Oh, I don't know. Let's take the Shallow DOF challenge for example. I rarely saw the technique used prior to the challenge, or even knew about it really. However, once the challenge was here, and long after it was over, for many challenges afterwards and even at other sites by some of the same members, I saw many a photo entered using the Shallow DOF technique.
I think it does stick with people. They learned the technique, such as myself. They carry it with them and use it in their every day shooting long after a challenge is gone. I don't think it takes anyone weeks or a year to explore a technique. Or am I just speaking for me? I don't know. I am still working on my long exposures, and ironically I just started doing so before this latest 2-second challenge. So I think people are eager to learn new techniques, and they learn them for the challenges, and then carry it with them and continue to use them. I really don't think anyone needs a year or even a month.
With that, I am all for at least one technique challenge along with other themes each month at least. Not a problem. Just more to learn. But I wouldn't want it to be on just DOF or Shallow DOF each month for a year. LOL....A different techique each month is cool.
OR maybe someone could actually set up an online course that someone maybe wants to tackle where you would have lessons on a specific technique and do it here at DPC as a side thing. Ask Council's permission. Let's say a recent challenge technique like the long exposure. You could have those that want in on the course enter their shots in a little challenge just for the students who sign up and/or just for critique or part of the course assignments. You know, just something off the cuff, but ran by a competant photographer here at DPC. This way as the challenges move on, those that want to stay with a particular technique to learn can do so by that route. Have it be like 6 weeks long or something. Have questions and answers, assignments, etc. Just a thought.
Rose |
I said subject and themes several times. Techniques are the fundamentals that are used to explore subjects. |
|
|
|
03/13/2006 06:54:18 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by Rose8699:
Oh, I don't know. Let's take the Shallow DOF challenge for example. I rarely saw the technique used prior to the challenge, or even knew about it really. However, once the challenge was here, and long after it was over, for many challenges afterwards and even at other sites by some of the same members, I saw many a photo entered using the Shallow DOF technique.
I think it does stick with people. They learned the technique, such as myself. They carry it with them and use it in their every day shooting long after a challenge is gone. I don't think it takes anyone weeks or a year to explore a technique. Or am I just speaking for me? I don't know. I am still working on my long exposures, and ironically I just started doing so before this latest 2-second challenge. So I think people are eager to learn new techniques, and they learn them for the challenges, and then carry it with them and continue to use them. I really don't think anyone needs a year or even a month.
With that, I am all for at least one technique challenge along with other themes each month at least. Not a problem. Just more to learn. But I wouldn't want it to be on just DOF or Shallow DOF each month for a year. LOL....A different techique each month is cool.
OR maybe someone could actually set up an online course that someone maybe wants to tackle where you would have lessons on a specific technique and do it here at DPC as a side thing. Ask Council's permission. Let's say a recent challenge technique like the long exposure. You could have those that want in on the course enter their shots in a little challenge just for the students who sign up and/or just for critique or part of the course assignments. You know, just something off the cuff, but ran by a competant photographer here at DPC. This way as the challenges move on, those that want to stay with a particular technique to learn can do so by that route. Have it be like 6 weeks long or something. Have questions and answers, assignments, etc. Just a thought.
Rose |
I said subject and themes several times. Techniques are the fundamentals that are used to explore subjects. |
Well, you know what? You have lost me completely. Just WHAT are you trying to say? Are you saying that if the subject is "flowers" and the next subject is "landscapes" then you think that by moving to landscapes the following week is somehow taking away from the shooting of flowers? I don't think you are giving others enough credit if you are saying that. I don't think anyone is hurting by having a different "subject" or "theme" every week, and using their "techniques" for those subjects and themes. No one is going to forget about the flowers, and no one is going to forget about the landscapes, etc, etc, etc. It implants memories by entering challenges, and different subjects also give others room to find their own styles. I WOULD become bored of flowers, for example, if I was to stay with that subject for a long period of time though. I think the week is good enough, and I still take shots of everything I once photoed before (except for cheese. LOL..It will be too soon for me to photograph cheese again!)
I still think my last paragraph opens up room for whatever it is you are trying to accomplish. Open a course and see if others are interested in staying on the subject you think they should. I dunno. I'm lost now. LOL...
Rose
Message edited by author 2006-03-13 19:00:08.
|
|
|
|
03/13/2006 06:54:29 PM · #12 |
The only real answer to this conundrum is ...
JJ Beguin
e |
|
|
|
03/13/2006 06:54:51 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Actually, I think I'm being misunderstood. I'm not suggesting a challenge to address this or thinking that more challenges need to be added. I'm suggesting that if you want to do something really interesting that you could maybe commit to a particular subject for a year or so and really explore it.
There's a whole world that isn't dpchallenge. I'm suggesting that if the expanse of your photography is dictated by the weekly theme then you are missing out on the creative opportunities within just one of the themes. It isn't so much a lack of creativity that results, as a lack of focus. If your mind and attention is constantly flitting off to the next shiny thing as a subject, then maybe you'll never really pay enough attention to do something truly interesting. |
Some of the people who are doing the Photo A Day projects have designated themes for themselves that will last for the month. I also use my own PaD to put up extra outtakes from a challenge topic, or more shots I have tried of a particular subject after the challenge was over. I would hope that anyone who was truly interested in improving their photography skills wouldn't just stop shooting something that interested them for the week of a challenge after their photo was submitted.
|
|
|
|
03/13/2006 07:04:03 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by kteach:
Originally posted by Gordon:
Actually, I think I'm being misunderstood. I'm not suggesting a challenge to address this or thinking that more challenges need to be added. I'm suggesting that if you want to do something really interesting that you could maybe commit to a particular subject for a year or so and really explore it.
There's a whole world that isn't dpchallenge. I'm suggesting that if the expanse of your photography is dictated by the weekly theme then you are missing out on the creative opportunities within just one of the themes. It isn't so much a lack of creativity that results, as a lack of focus. If your mind and attention is constantly flitting off to the next shiny thing as a subject, then maybe you'll never really pay enough attention to do something truly interesting. |
Some of the people who are doing the Photo A Day projects have designated themes for themselves that will last for the month. I also use my own PaD to put up extra outtakes from a challenge topic, or more shots I have tried of a particular subject after the challenge was over. I would hope that anyone who was truly interested in improving their photography skills wouldn't just stop shooting something that interested them for the week of a challenge after their photo was submitted. |
I totally agree, and I edited my last post while others were writing. Just want to mention that for those that read it before editing.
I thought this whole thing was about us missing the opportunity to learn a technique in a week. LOL...If its about subjects? Then I really don't see the argument. Like it is said, others have their own thing going with photo a day stuff. I take shots of whatever I love and don't feel like I am missing a thing. There is only exploration out there, and nothing to hold one back.
Just my two-dah-lahs.
Rose
|
|
|
|
03/13/2006 07:11:30 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by e301:
The only real answer to this conundrum is ...
JJ Beguin
e |
Heh. A good answer to just about any conundrum here. :-)
I credit the challenges to teaching me new things that I do carry through to other shots. I've really enjoyed the idea of long exposure/painting with light sort of stuff.
I could set myself a goal of spending a year trying to make Texas landscape photographs look interesting.... I'm kinda into trees here - had a series going until the &$% hard drive crashed. Will start that over again. |
|
|
|
03/14/2006 06:41:20 AM · #16 |
I think the OP raises some interesting points. I always understood the DPC challenges as a way of encouraging and inspiring people to explore new subjects and themes they perhaps haven't tried before, while at the same time (and especially with the technical challenges) helping them learn and improve their technique.
It's then up to the photographer to take these ideas and techniques and expand on them. Shooting two photographs a week just for DPC would limit the photographer considerably!
On the subject of learning technique, in addition to technical challenges DPC offers;
The tutorials forum
User written tutorials
How'd they do that?
Mentorship and workshop groups in the forums
But technique applies to all areas of photography. I don't go out with the intention of using DOF, rule of thirds or shutter speeds. I go out with the intention of shooting a subject or theme, using these techniques and rules wherever I see fit.
The technical challenges just allow us to concentrate on and learn about a technique in more detail, so we're more comfortable using it in the 'real world'! |
|
|
|
03/14/2006 10:14:36 AM · #17 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
I find it takes me a year or two to work through all the really obvious cliches in an idea and maybe attempt something bordering on new or interesting ... With a week to think about it, I might be able to do a great rendition of a standard cliche but creatively find it difficult to move on. Particularly if the next week it is a new, potentially cliched area to explore. |
Isn't that why we have challenges repeated every year or two? e.g. painting with light. Your first time round, you come up with the cliche. When the contest comes around again though, you're had a while to digest and are ready with something more creative.
|
|
|
|
03/14/2006 10:25:26 AM · #18 |
hhm,
i was thinking ... 14 days for submitting challenge and then 7 days for voting on them, on the 7th day of submit phase for challenge 1 another 14/7 day challenge begins ... ?
did i miss something ? :-)
Message edited by author 2006-03-14 10:25:51.
|
|
|
|
03/14/2006 10:31:57 AM · #19 |
Originally posted by riot:
Isn't that why we have challenges repeated every year or two? e.g. painting with light. Your first time round, you come up with the cliche. When the contest comes around again though, you're had a while to digest and are ready with something more creative. |
I was at least trying to suggest that a year or more of actual attention to a single subject or theme could start to provide some interesting work, not just two weeks of attention, with a year in between. A month on a theme isn't very much either.
Some folk spend a lifetime trying to master a single project after all.
Picking a project that you have ready access to and revisiting it again and again can really be eye-opening. You probably have to fight through the boredom after a piece of time and maybe after that you'll start to see the subject in a new light. I've been amazed at how much new I can see in something after a year of photographing it, even though I might have been bored of it after the first week.
|
|
|
|
03/14/2006 10:51:06 AM · #20 |
I agree completely with Gordon.
Weekly challenges are like shiny objects used to distract people for a week. Once it's done, the subject/theme gets dropped and people direct their efforts to the next shiny object. Maybe some will take inspiration and explore deeper, but for most, it seems to be just a skimming of the surface while waiting for the next challenge.
To dive really deep, you can't just take a few hours, bang off 1000 frames at 5fps and say you're done. It takes time, maybe several months, probably years, and in some cases, a lifetime or more.
|
|
|
|
03/14/2006 12:07:03 PM · #21 |
IMO DPC is not a very efficient way to improve your skills as a photographer. While much can be learned here, success in the challenges has little to do with success in learning the art of photography. There is no skill development path and winning a challenge ribbon is strictly a matter of chance. If sheer quality and artistry were the criteria for a ribbon, then the same photogs would always win the ribbons. But even the best of the participants at DPC will frequently score rather low because of the voter's whims. DPC is rather a popularity contest instead of a skill contest. Whatever subject and style appeals to the voters most is what wins, regardless of the photographer's skills. So, if you look to improve your skill by observing the winning shots, forget it, the ribbons do not consistently reflect quality, just popularity. If you get the subject and style right you can win with an inferior quality shot.
Message edited by author 2006-03-14 12:07:22. |
|
|
|
03/14/2006 12:11:29 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by ElGordo:
IMO DPC is not a very efficient way to improve your skills as a photographer. |
It certainly is a lot of fun and entertaining. Not everyone here aspires to be a professional photographer. I'm thinking many people here are doing it to have a good time and learn something along the way. I know I'm having a blast!!! It's a great hobby and certainly beats sitting in front of a TV during your spare time. ;^)
|
|
|
|
03/14/2006 12:16:40 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by ElGordo:
IMO DPC is not a very efficient way to improve your skills as a photographer. |
It certainly is a lot of fun and entertaining. Not everyone here aspires to be a professional photographer. I'm thinking many people here are doing it to have a good time and learn something along the way. I know I'm having a blast!!! It's a great hobby and certainly beats sitting in front of a TV during your spare time. ;^) |
Precisely!! DPC is a fun site. |
|
|
|
03/14/2006 12:41:10 PM · #24 |
As Gordon stated in the original post, weekly themed challenges can be helpful when you're starting out in photography, but as a person grows in their art, it becomes less so, it even may become a hindrance.
A week (or a month, or even a year) is way too sort a time to fully explore a theme, to grow into it beautifully. The week concept is rather commercial - produce an image that will sell this subject now. Art is long term, what can you say that will communicate over time. At least that's one of the ways I think about it.
There's a big world out there. I'm slowly finding my own language about this world, how I can give voice with images to what I see and feel and would like others to see and feel.
I still participate in weekly challenges, although I'm a lot choosier nowadays than a year ago. And whereas I used to feel deprived a year ago when I couldn't produce something for a challenge, it doesn't bother me now. I suspect that I'll continue to participate here and there, for the fun of the adrenaline shot. Then again, I may just grow out of the need for adrenaline :)
|
|
|
|
03/14/2006 12:45:24 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by ursula:
Then again, I may just grow out of the need for adrenaline :) |
Hopefully you'll never be chased by a bear. ;^)
|
|
