Dilemma between Cameras - DPChallenge Forums

07/25/2003 02:27:50 PM · #1

Hi friends, I want to buy a new digital camera but I am stuck on deciding what to buy. I have two choices one is Nikon D100 and the other is Canon EOS 10D. I have read their reviews from different sources thousand times but I couldn't decided between them. I am not kinda expert on pro-cameras and lenses.

If you have any information that you could share about those cameras and thier con and pros please reply.

Gordon

RIM BlackBerry Curve

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

07/25/2003 02:35:39 PM · #2

Both are fine cameras and you would do well with either.

Both are going to be quite complex to get the best possible pictures from and you'll need to spend quite a bit of time to master them if you haven't used a digital SLR before.

One thing to consider is what kind of photography you prefer doing. From there, you can work out what sort of lenses you would like. Really that is a more important decision than which particular camera body you want to use - the majority of the cost is in the lenses and the majority of the decision is between Nikon or Canon lenses - rather than a particular body - after all, you are likely to be using the lenses a lot longer than the rest of the camera.

Canon EF 28-135mm F/3.5-5.6 IS USM

07/25/2003 02:46:01 PM · #3

Thank you gordon, the lens thing was also the main decision point for me. But I couldn't decide between them too. Because there are groups of fanatics that I have listened to from those two brands and both groups thinks that their brand is better.

As a start a want to buy an "all-around" lens, with that lens I think I will master on my dSLR.

Thank you anyways,

ClubJuggle

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

07/25/2003 02:58:05 PM · #4

What types of photography do you enjoy doing most?

-Terry

Canon EF 28-135mm F/3.5-5.6 IS USM

07/25/2003 03:03:25 PM · #5

I enjoy doing macro and nature photography. Thank you for your reply.

Nusbaum

Fujifilm X-T1

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

07/25/2003 03:15:08 PM · #6

I just returned from the Camera store and am at exactly the same decision point. They have both camera's in stock, but I could not decide. If people are interesting in offering practical advice... I shot mostly documentary style existing light. I am content with fully manual 35mm with 28 and 105 prime lenses for most shots.

ClubJuggle

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

07/25/2003 03:19:29 PM · #7

Originally posted by alisalih:

I enjoy doing macro and nature photography. Thank you for your reply.

I think you'll be happy with the 10D. In particular, check out Jacko's portfolio. He's done some incredible macro stuff with the 10D. Hope you like bugs though. :)

-Terry

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

07/25/2003 03:50:09 PM · #8

Before you do anything else you should go to a store and hold them both in your hands (if you haven't already). It won't matter how "good" the camera is if you don't feel comfortable with it.

EddyG

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

07/25/2003 04:54:27 PM · #9

My advice is not to pay as much attention to the body as to the lenses.

Pay more attention to the lens system because that is what you are really buying into. Good lenses are expensive, but they will last, even though you'll replace the 10D or the D100 in a couple years when something better comes along.

I personally like the direction that Canon is moving in, towards a full-frame sensor. Now that Nikon has announced their "DX" series lenses that are specifically designed for their smaller 1.5X crop-factor sensor, it seems like the 1.5X crop factor may be "the DSLR way" for Nikon. Even on their top-of-the-line DSLR, you still have a 1.5X crop factor because of the smaller imaging sensor.

On the other hand, Canon has the 1Ds, which is an 11-megapixel full-frame sensor (the imaging sensor is the same size as a frame of 35mm film). This means that your 16-35mm/f2.8L ultra-wide-angle zoom really is an ultra-wide-angle zoom on the 1Ds. On something like the 10D, your field of view with the 16-35 is comparable to a 26-56mm wide-angle zoom because of the crop factor.

Canon has not given any indication that they will design special "DX"-style lenses that have smaller imaging circles (which make them incompatible with film cameras, and with DSLR's with a full-frame sensor.) There was a discussion on DPReview that said it might not even be possible for Nikon to engineer a full-frame digital sensor because of their smaller, lens mount -- it hasn't changed since their first fully-manual 35mm camera. This is in contrast to Canon, who bit the bullet and "obsoleted" all of their old lenses many years ago when they introduced the larger, fully-electronic EF-series mount on the first EOS camera.

The Nikon lens system is confusing, because of all the "band aids" they have put on their lens mount over the years. You have to make sure that the Nikkor lens you are buying will work with your body. On the Canon side, if it is an EF-mount lens, it will work and be fully functional (no stop-down metering, manual aperture adjustment, etc.)... guaranteed.

Anyway, my point is that you need to looks at the lenses. Bodies will come and go. But lets say you get a 10D, and over the next few years spend several thousand dollars on some nice glass (very easy to do once you experience "nice glass"). A few years from now, Canon may have a full-frame sensor that is affordable enough for you to purchase, and all of your lenses will be good-to-go! This is not necessarily the case with Nikon's new line of DX lenses, which will only work on cameras with an APS (remember those cameras?) sized image sensor. It seems to me that Nikon now has "split" their lens R&D efforts, since they will be designing full-frame lenses for their film bodies (which are still a very large market), and DX-series lenses for their digital bodies. Canon can continue the "full frame" strategy and hopefully introduce more new and exciting lens technologies, like they did when they introduced Diffractive Optics based lenses.

Also, Canon's lens lineup is outstanding; you can get a Canon 70-200/f4 L-series lens for less than $550 that will blow you away in terms of sharpness, contrast, bokeh, etc. You also have access to Canon specialty lenses, such as Canon's three Tilt-Shift lenses. (Nikon only has one T/S lens.) Lenses are the key! :-)

Next time you are at an event or even watching one on TV (such as a football game), pay attention to the sidelines where the professional's are taking pictures and look for Canon's signature white lenses. You'll see a lot. Not that you won't see Nikon equipment/lenses, just that you'll see a lot of Canon.

Once you've experienced something like Canon's 70-200/f2.8L IS (Image Stabilizer) lens, you'll understand. (I find the IS technology just amazing. I push the focus button and instantly the picture in the viewfinder is no longer moving or shaking; it is steady and smooth!) Nikon does has something similar called "VR" (Vibration Reduction). Canon offers an great "entry-level" IS lens: 28-135mm (a perfect starter lens if you do decide to get a 10D, by the way! Ring-type USM autofocus rules! Oh, and don't forget the 50mm/1.8 for $70. Combined with the 10D's outstanding high-ISO performance you get a sharp lens that is great for extreme low-light photography and portraits. You can really blur a background at f/1.8!)

BTW, in case I sound too biased, here is a comparison (done by a Nikon user) of the D100 and the 10D: //www.digital4to.com/D100vs10D.htm (and he doesn't even mention that the 10D has a magnesium alloy body or was built digital from the ground up -- the D100 being based on the N80 film camera).

Message edited by author 2003-07-25 18:24:45.

skiphilkah

Fujifilm FinePix S5000 Z

07/25/2003 05:05:24 PM · #10

a friend of mine recently bought a D100 and is in love with it. some of the macro stuff she's been doing is out of this world.

STEINR

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF 70-300mm f/4.0-5.6 IS USM

07/25/2003 05:13:40 PM · #11

Whatever your descision is, JUST DO IT, as a sports shoe comapny might say.

You can agonize over this for days, weeks, even months and never be sure you did the right thing. After all is said and done, and after all the painstaking research, it will still come down to personal preferance.

rll07

07/25/2003 05:16:51 PM · #12

"On the other hand, Canon has the 1Ds, which is an 11-megapixel full-frame sensor (the imaging sensor is the same size as a frame of 35mm film). This means that your 16-35mm/f2.8L ultra-wide-angle zoom really is an ultra-wide-angle zoom on the 1Ds. On something like the 10D, your field of view with the 16-35 is comparable to a 26-56mm wide-angle zoom because of the crop factor."

does anyone have a 1Ds? and is it that much better than the D60?

EddyG

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

07/25/2003 05:19:42 PM · #13

Originally posted by rll07:

does anyone have a 1Ds? and is it that much better than the D60?

I assume you mean DPC folks? If so, then it looks like 4 people are lucky enough to have this dream camera. Since this is a "pro" camera, I would guess that most of them are used to make money, and not enter photo contests. :-)

There is no comparison to the D60, other than maybe that they are both made by Canon and take EF-mount lenses. The 1Ds is truly a professional camera with a very professional price. Most consider it the best DSLR currently available, bar none. You can read a full review of it here.

Message edited by author 2003-07-25 17:26:01.

matt betea

Nikon D100

07/25/2003 05:52:05 PM · #14

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Before you do anything else you should go to a store and hold them both in your hands (if you haven't already). It won't matter how "good" the camera is if you don't feel comfortable with it.

That's the best advice I've heard yet. I really believe that should be the number one priority.
Also, if we're going to voice opinions and nitpic about which system is better, lets at least keep facts straight.

For one, it seems strange to me that Nikon would be hindered making a FF sensor with their current lens mount. Weird how their film cameras don't seem to have a problem with it. And all f-mount lenses can be put on a film camera and then switch to a dslr. I didn't know Nikon didn't have any T or T/S lenses either. This and this must be a misprint then. I also believe the majority of Nikon's lenses can be used on all current DSLR, granted some lenses might offer only limited ability. Yeah and I don't believe Nikon offers any VR "entry level" lens.

I just think we should keep the mudslinging to a minimum.

As Gordon said, each camera/system is more than capable. It would be up to the individual to decide what his/her likes and dislikes are about each one and how they weigh the decision.

Message edited by author 2003-07-25 17:57:54.

EddyG

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

07/25/2003 06:04:22 PM · #15

No mudslinging intended.

I wasn't aware that Nikon added a lens that had Tilt and Shift to their lineup. Thanks for the correction (I've edited my post above to reflect this new info.) But Canon still has three times as many Tilt/Shift lenses to choose from. :-) (For those of you who don't know what a Shift lens does, you can see some examples here. They are great for architectural shots. And with the addition of Tilt, you can control depth of field, like in a view camera.)

As far as the Nikon lens mount not being able to handle a full-frame digital sensor: this is only what I read on DPReview; I'm sorry I can't provide more details. I tried to find a reference, but the forums over there move so fast and the search function is frequently down because of the heavy server load. What is a fact is that Nikon is now designing lenses specifically for their DSLR's that will not work on their standard film bodies. I think that says something about their "future direction". It certainly means that their lens R&D will now be split between DX and non-DX lenses.

In terms of VR vs. IS, I found 3 Nikon VR lenses on B&H's site; I found 10 Canon IS lenses. That is a considerable difference, and show just how wide and varied the range of lenses Canon has available for their bodies.

Message edited by author 2003-07-25 18:18:54.

Nate Goldman

Nikon Coolpix 4300

07/25/2003 11:16:08 PM · #16

I would probably go with the Canon. That camera does wonders. It is truly amazing. Good luck though!