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02/13/2006 12:04:06 PM · #1 |
I am having a little problem (mentally) with a situation. My hobby has always been photography. Lately, becuase of the business I am in I have more and more requests to shoot something for someone. Because I want my shots to be of good quality I visit sites like this to learn more about the art of photography. I do this in my spare time and I am not obsessive about it.
Two months ago I decided to hang some photos in a local gallery hoping to eventually sell some prints. I rented a space 8 feet high by 4 feet wide for $75.00. I can hang as many photos as I can fit and they get no commissions.
Saturday night there was an open house at the gallery and my wife and I stopped in for a short time before we went out to dinner. When we left there this is what she said to me; "I think you should concentrate on something more productive (meaning money generating) instead of spending all this energy on this photography thing."
I was floored...crushed! The words are still ringing in my ears. To me, happiness isn't all about money (although I made about $1,500 shooting last month) but more about enjoying life and having fun doing things that you love.
I am now thinking about selling all of my equipment and just quitting...which is not really my style. It is more to prove a point...because I know I will be miserable and not very much fun to live with, plus there will be some loss of income.
Is/was anyone else faced with this situation and if so, how do/did you handle it?
Rick
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02/13/2006 12:07:55 PM · #2 |
It happens lots. Parents sometimes do it and as in your case, spouses do it. You should talk to her about it and you should both come to terms with it's overall value and importance in your mutual lives together.
...or get her to go on the Dr. Phil show with you. ;-)
Good luck and don't let anyone suck the passion out of you.
Message edited by author 2006-02-13 12:08:06. |
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02/13/2006 12:15:00 PM · #3 |
How would your wife feel about your taking up golf? I bet that would use more time than photography even, and cost more :-) Seriously, are you entitled, in your particular married relationship, to a certain portion of time to call your own and spend as you see fit? And if there is disagreement on this, are you willing to accept that?
"Hold fast to dreams, for when dreams die
life is a broken-winged bird that cannot fly."
— Langston Hughes
Robt.
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02/13/2006 12:17:56 PM · #4 |
I would say open discussion about both sides would be best. Her natural need for security and a man's natural need for pursuit of profession and happiness. You can't give up something you love so much and she certainly shouldn't put you through a painful loss (photography) for purely financial concerns.
I have got to believe people who love one another can understand the depth of love or hurt over something if communicated gently and properly. Most importantly, don't do anything to hasty (like sell everything). I made nearly nothing from my photography. But that is a road I am heading down, no doubt about it. So let that small success be a sign of great things to come.
I have a lot of people who support me regardless, so I can't relate completely. But I can tell you the other side of it. And that is support helps so much and maybe that is all you have to communicate.
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02/13/2006 12:20:10 PM · #5 |
Oh my, that's pretty harsh. It brings to mind a tune by AC/DC titled "Dirty Deeds, Done Dirt Cheap".
>:-(
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02/13/2006 12:20:25 PM · #6 |
I will never stop doing the things that make me happy. Thats all I really have is my passions. Don't give up what makes you happy. When my Girl starts in on me about this kinda of stuff I reminder her about what makes her happy (Theater and Singing) and ask if she would give it up. She says NO! End of discussion. Maybe buy her a camera and get her involved(Just a thought). DONT SELL YOUR EQUIPMENT!
Good Luck,
Erick |
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02/13/2006 12:23:17 PM · #7 |
Some professions, especially in an art field (yes I consider photography an art), some people have a harder time understanding. I, and others, know many a professinal dancer who often get questioned about their job.
-What do you do?
-I dance
-Really? What kind?
-Ballet
-That's cool. What's your real job?
-That's it. Dancing
-No seriously, what's your bread and butter job?
Etc. etc.
What I'm trying to say is, people's perceptions of what is 'meaningful' are very different. What you should do? Only you know the asnwer to that.
Personally, I'd sit down and try and show them why photography is so important to me as a person. Making yourself miserable won't prove a point, it will only make you miserable. Is it really worth that?
Just my humble 2 cents |
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02/13/2006 12:24:36 PM · #8 |
Been there and it does hurt when the one you love the most seems to gunning for you. Best advice, follow your heart, not someone elses. Being true to yourself is always the best course. My husband would often comment on my hobbies. Either he would seem disinterested or insulting about it at times. We sat down and discussed why he was discouraging me and it came down to insecurity and jealousy. We had both been sucked into the routine of RL, but I found something outside all the crap that goes on and he hadn't. I encouraged him to find a hobbie outside of what we did together and once he found his own passion he stopped beating up on mine. Things have been peachy keen ever since. (he is even trying his hand at photography and he ain't to bad at it)
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02/13/2006 12:37:25 PM · #9 |
Maybe she didn't mean to be a dreamsquasher - here are some potential scenarios:
She may not have known that her suggestion would hurt you, perhaps it was off the cuff, flip, mentioned in passing.
She may worry that you'll be crushed if your prints don't sell and is trying to protect you by talking you out of the whole scene.
Maybe she's preoccupied with finances right now and inadvertently let it bubble to the surface.
Some people just don't value creative endeavors very highly - it's as if they're wired for the practical. But your loved ones will usually try to understand your perspective if you explain it.
---
In any case, don't react rashly, have a talk and try to let her know that this is an important outlet for you. Everyone needs a non-work outlet. Relate yours to hers. |
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02/13/2006 12:39:45 PM · #10 |
My wife is very supportive of my hobby, but she gave me a nice kick to the junk last week when I was talking about entering a picture of my daughter, Abigail, into the Regis & Kelly Beautiful baby contest. Half jokingly I said that we were going to have to be ready to go up to New York City when my picture gets selected as one of the 10 semi-finalist. She immediately responded by saying that there is no way we were going to win. It was like she turned around and punched me in the gut. I just don't think non-photographers understand how much of you goes into each one of your photographs. Like I said, she supports me and I love her for that, but she does knock me down every once and a while without realizing she'd doing it. When you put yourself out there for other people to judge it hurts the worst when the ones closest to you don't quite see your genius... at least it does for me.
Message edited by author 2006-02-13 12:57:42. |
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02/13/2006 12:43:10 PM · #11 |
I thought twice, thrice and then again about posting because the first thing that came to my mind when I read your post is how frustrating I would find it to be married to someone who did not support and encourage those things that are my dreams and passions.
This isn't, to my mind, so much about photography itself as it is about lack of respect from one person for another person's choices and desires in life.
I don't honestly know what to advise other than to sit down and talk with your wife about how crushing her comments are to you and, more importantly, how concerned you are that she does not seem to be supportive of something so important to you.
Perhaps it might be worth asking if there is an underlying reason for her to make such a negative statement - is she feeling resentment about the time and passion you devote to this instead of to her? If that's the case, perhaps she is generally more supportive of your dreams but is using this as a way of letting you know that she doesn't feel she is receiving enough of your attention?
I don't know the answers as I've not been in this situation but...
I do surely sympathise.
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02/13/2006 12:47:27 PM · #12 |
My ex-husband was always off on some hairbrained tangent with his hobby (independent film and video) and I always stood by, ever supportive. He wanted to make it a career, which he did (sort of), and I supported him. I finally got up the gumption to go back to school, and I got a Master's degree in counseling so I could become a school counselor, which he supported. When our marriage began to fail and I suggested WE go to counseling, he told me that counseling was for the weak minded and only idiots needed to hear the BS that counselors talk about, never minding the fact that I WAS a counselor and my work meant the world to me. That was a punch in the gut. The comment made me feel completely worthless in my career, as a human, and as a wife. It was also one of several final nails in the coffin.
You guys need to talk it out and really work through it or else you will continue to feel resentment and hurt over the comment. Don't let it fester and don't let it cause you to give up something important to you.
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02/13/2006 12:47:51 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by Kavey:
Perhaps it might be worth asking if there is an underlying reason for her to make such a negative statement - is she feeling resentment about the time and passion you devote to this instead of to her? If that's the case, perhaps she is generally more supportive of your dreams but is using this as a way of letting you know that she doesn't feel she is receiving enough of your attention?
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I was thinking the same thing as Kavey but couldn't find the words.
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02/13/2006 12:51:40 PM · #14 |
Todd's story reminded me of last month when my son was born. I took over a hundred pics on the afternoon of Riley's birth. The day after the birth I came back to the hospital to pick up the wife and baby and there was a sign on the door "Do not disturb - baby photographer at work" or something to that effect. I walked in and there was the "Newborn Pics R Us" (not the real name) lady and her setup and my wife tells me she has ordered 30 of the baby announcement photos.
I think the room temperature went up at least 30° from the anger swelling up in me. I let my wife order the picture holder announcements but said we will not be buying any photos. When the photog left, I told my wife how incredibly insensitive that was. Then she started crying and I felt bad. (notice how women turn things around on ya?)
Anyway - that was like a punch in the gut also. My wife has been somewhat supportive of my endeavors, but not encouraging.
On the other hand, when I think about the situation, I have to recall the things she does that I have not been supportive of or that I have flat out deflated with my comments. I have found that if I try to be less discouraging to her, she is less discouraging to me. Eventually I hope the less-negative will evolve into more-positive.
Ahhhh relationships... |
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02/13/2006 01:03:42 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Todd's story reminded me of last month when my son was born. I took over a hundred pics on the afternoon of Riley's birth. The day after the birth I came back to the hospital to pick up the wife and baby and there was a sign on the door "Do not disturb - baby photographer at work" or something to that effect. I walked in and there was the "Newborn Pics R Us" (not the real name) lady and her setup and my wife tells me she has ordered 30 of the baby announcement photos. ...
..................
On the other hand, when I think about the situation, I have to recall the things she does that I have not been supportive of or that I have flat out deflated with my comments. I have found that if I try to be less discouraging to her, she is less discouraging to me. Eventually I hope the less-negative will evolve into more-positive. |
That is a very poignant and REAL story. I feel like I was in that room. Plus, that is very relatable. I think what you said about the less discouraging bring less discouraging comment is so incredibly spot on. The trick for me is to be less discouraging no matter what the other person is doing/saying. And hope eventually that love/kindness will pay off in the end. But then again, perhaps we should do it for its own sake, and not expect anything in return.
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02/13/2006 01:03:55 PM · #16 |
You don't need to post answers to these questions. These are questions you might ask yourself that may or may not apply. I'm trying to play devil's advocate here, or at least help delve into her possible reasoning.
Are your reasons and expectations for photography the same as what your wife thinks they are?
If she thinks you are doing it purely for the income and doesn't realize that you are gaining alot from it in an artistic sense, your "acceptable return" and her "acceptable return" on the venture may be quite different.
If you have sold the investment in equipment as justified based upon financial returns without admitting the artistic benefit, she may purely be looking at the dollars and cents and not seeing an acceptable return.
Has the gallery space rental been cost-justifiable to her? Are you doing this to sell photos or to have your work seen? Does she know why you are doing it and does she agree?
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02/13/2006 01:07:58 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by Kavey:
I thought twice, thrice and then again about posting because the first thing that came to my mind when I read your post is how frustrating I would find it to be married to someone who did not support and encourage those things that are my dreams and passions.
This isn't, to my mind, so much about photography itself as it is about lack of respect from one person for another person's choices and desires in life.
I don't honestly know what to advise other than to sit down and talk with your wife about how crushing her comments are to you and, more importantly, how concerned you are that she does not seem to be supportive of something so important to you.
Perhaps it might be worth asking if there is an underlying reason for her to make such a negative statement - is she feeling resentment about the time and passion you devote to this instead of to her? If that's the case, perhaps she is generally more supportive of your dreams but is using this as a way of letting you know that she doesn't feel she is receiving enough of your attention?
I don't know the answers as I've not been in this situation but...
I do surely sympathise. |
Kavey is probably right.
When you do talk to her. Please, please, please do not make this about what she said. Make it about how you feel, she already remembers what she said better than you do. They all do. Tell her what you felt at the time, tell her how you feel about photography and how it fulfills your creative desires.
She will probably tell you what Kavey said, that she feels left out and ignored when you're finding a creative outlet. Let her say it, don't say it for her. Be sincere, and do not be accusatory.
"I was hurt" not "you hurt me"
"I need this" not "you're trying to crush my dreams"
Try to go back and examine the amount of time you're spending with your second bride, and consider ways to either include her, or give more back to her. She will reciprocate if she is a good person, which she probably is.
Another option, simply give more time and intimacy to her without having a big emotional discussion if you can't handle the kind of emotional expression which that would require. You know her love languages: action?, helps?, talking?, gifts?, remember to use them. If she asks you about photography again, you may have to make a rough decision for yourself.
That reminds me, I need a no computer night tonight. :o) Good luck and God bless. |
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02/13/2006 01:11:07 PM · #18 |
WOW! I never thought this would generate this much response. Thanks.
I would like to add a few things.
I do play golf...normaly 10 rounds a year. Last year...0
I also snowboard. My normal season...25 days. Last year...12...this year to date...3.
As far as financial worries she should have none. I have been self employed for over 30 years...the bills are paid, we have a nice home, nice cars...maybe not everything we want, but cetainly everything we need.
I have tried to convince my wife that she should find a hobby. She says her hobbies include spending time with her family Mom, Dad, brothers, in-laws and their children, I am very supportive of that and I usually attend all family functions. She likes to go away for the weekend to the family lake house and I support it...I usually stay home to take care of the dogs.
Whenever she wants to do something, go somewhere, I am there. Everything around the house is done...it is clean, laundry done (yes I do laundry and floors) redecorated, lawn mown (summer) plowed & shoveled (winter)...you name it. It's not like I am neglecting anything in order to do this.
Funny part is this. One day when out for a drive to the coast I stopped to take a couple of shots. When I returned to the car (maybe 10 minutes) I got this; "Does it always have to be all about taking a picture?" After that I didn't always take my camera with me. Shortly after When at a barbeque with her family in front of everyone she asked "Didn;t you bring your camera?" I replied that I hadn't...she was mad. In front of her family or friends or even her customers I hear her talk about my accomplishments...even brag.
After reading all the responses I am starting to think that she might have a problem with other people being successful or recognized...in other words she has to be in the spotlight.
Again, thanks everyone. My head has been spinning and my gut has hurt since Saturday night. I knew i could find some help & understanding here.
Rick
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02/13/2006 01:13:16 PM · #19 |
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02/13/2006 01:21:47 PM · #20 |
| Ever thought that maybe SHE is jealous? bored? etc? Maybe she really just wants more attention from you. DON'T leave your camera home, that is just an open invitation for you to feel bad that you missed a shot. Get her a camera that way when you get out for that picture, she gets out WITH you. |
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02/13/2006 01:22:23 PM · #21 |
Clipped and borrowed from somewhere and I keep it posted on my desk at work:
Some low-value uses of time:
Things other people want you to do.
Things that have always been done this way.
Things you're not unusually good at doing.
Things you don't enjoy doing.
Things few other people are interested in.
Things that have already taken twice as long as you originally expected.
Some high-value uses of time:
Things that advance your overall purpose in life.
Things you have always wanted to do.
Innovative ways of doing things that promise to slash the time required and/or multiply the quality of results.
Things other people tell you can't be done.
Things for which it is now or never.
(Source = points from a workshop given by Judith Seiss on time management.) |
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02/13/2006 01:25:21 PM · #22 |
From your most recent post, I would think the problem is more one of jealousy rather than being in the spotlight. You were spending time with her on a drive, but you left her alone to do something she might perceive you feel is more important. It sounds much like the football widow (in my case, baseball widow). That she brags about your accomplishments shows that she is proud of you.
Maybe on the drive you should have dragged her out of the car to show her the 'romantic spot' you found. Most people don't understand how solitary photography can be, isolating you even in a group. Maybe you should get her a camera or ask her where she would like to go to take pictures.
My husband often feels left out when it is the three of us - him, me, and the camera. I can wander off, mentally, for an hour as I scout, plan, picture, recompose, and edit in my head. I often have to try hard to remember that he is also making my love of photography possible. Oh, and he brags too. :) |
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02/13/2006 01:30:54 PM · #23 |
I guess i'm lucky...my husband will drive forever to let me take a picture of something...
Printer4u, Try puttign her in some of the photos that you are taking.. tell her that you want to stop and take a picture of her there.. and a few with no one in it as you want to sell it, but it wont be as beautiful as one with her in it.
Another idea is to give her the profits from the sales, let her buy things for her with it. If she wants touse the profits, she may work hard at selling your photographs, you never know..
BUT the best thing i can say is .. Sit down with her, find out why your photography bothers her. |
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02/13/2006 01:31:50 PM · #24 |
Hiya Rick,
I think the best thing is to sit down and have a talk. Maybe she said it to the wrong way of what she really ment or maybe you took it the wrong way. I have been married for 10 years, I will tell ya sometimes the "zingers" just slip without a mean intention.
On another note, maybe the friends shes hanging out with are the keep up to the "Jones's" kind. I know my Brother and his wife are that way, they think nothing about dropping money on having Itailian Marble installed in the entry way, just so the reflection of the 3 tiered chandaller is perfect. They have more on there credit cards than I owe on my house, every few years they refinance their house to pay of the cards and start all over again. I know when ever my wife comes back from a party at thier house I get to hear about how nice this was, or how great it would be to travel to where ever... For me being rich is owing nowbody nothing:) |
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02/13/2006 01:43:23 PM · #25 |
More feedback.
I tried to get her to use one of my other cameras. I even told her how it could be interesting to see the difference in how we each see things.She said she had absolutely no interest.
Money...the root of all evil. In her last marriage (this is the second for us both) she had more money than she knew what to do with. They had 5 homes (even one on the water in So. Florida). When she divorced he was worth over 3 million. She never spent much money even when married to him...and has always said she learned that money does not buy happiness. So I don't think money is the issue.
She doesn;t like to be in anu pictures. Whenever I take a photo that includes her she asks me to delete it..and i respectfully do. Now, if it is a group shot with someone from her family that is a different story...butI will never figure it out.
There was no miscommunication or misunderstanding about what was said. There was a brief discussion about it on our way to dinner. I was so fuming I just dropped it in order to enjoy the rest of the evening.
Rick
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