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DPChallenge Forums >> General Discussion >> I apologise for taking BIll Jemison's Work
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02/10/2006 09:25:02 PM · #26
dean,
When i first heard what you did I was furious. I still am. What you did hurt people.

I'm glad you were sorry and appologized, that's a first step.

What you need to do is find a way to make it up to Bill. Do something good.

Actions speak louder than words.
02/10/2006 09:31:29 PM · #27
Originally posted by bcoble:

I submit that he should not be allowed to participate on this site. How can he be trusted. The worst thing you can do on this site is to steal someones work and run it as your own.


I second that motion.
02/10/2006 09:48:25 PM · #28
You need to take resposibility for your actions. Apology is one step but there must be more. Anyone can say they are sorry. However punishment must still be enforced. What is a reasonable punishment for this act. Slap on the wrist? Stand in the corner? Just saying your sorry is not enough! I try real hard to create my sub 5 images. (lol) Maybe that is why no one wants to steal my images. Anyway. DECIDE WHAT THE PUNISHMENT SHOULD BE! I suggest he go play on other sites. Thats my vote.
02/10/2006 09:52:24 PM · #29
Dean what you did in the first place was wrong and you know that, you have apologised to the person from whom you stole from and to the community here and I hope to the other community where you posted the image, this was the right thing to do.

You now need to learn a lesson from this.

Another lesson I have learnt is that some people on this site do not have it in their hearts to accept apologies and forgive. I feel sorry for them, time to move on and put this behind all of us.

02/10/2006 09:55:59 PM · #30
I accept the apology and feel a lesson has been learned. Let's give him a go and let things move forward.

Can't we all just get along? :)
02/10/2006 10:00:42 PM · #31
Hi folks! I see that Dean has beaten me to the punch...I had asked his permission to post his letter to me, then went to dinner and came back to see he has done it. I would like to post here publicly my reply to him now (made earlier in a reply to his letter) I think it speaks for itself as to my feelings. I think he is brave to do this:

Dean,

I want to thank you for making what is certainly a very hard, gut-wrentching apology. I want you to know that I accept it without reservation. It means a lot to me in a positive way - much more than the negative feelings your use gave me. It takes a lot to recognize one's mistakes, and takes even more to own up to them.

There is no reason for you to let this thing disgrace you. We all make mistakes and can only hope for forgiveness. I forgive you Dean. I probably over reacted in the heat of the moment and the shock that I received. Don't let this ruin your love of photography, nor your self respect. Please move on and have a good, no, GREAT life, not forgetting this incident, but remembering it as a milestone in your development. Above all, forgive yourself.

If it would not embarrass you, I would love for you to let me post your message to me on the DP forum. Most people are generous in their view of redemption. I don't mean this in a religious way. I am not at all religious. I mean this in a human way - we are all human and all make mistakes.

Thank you again for owning up and asking forgiveness. You are well on the way to overcoming this. Good luck!

Bill
02/10/2006 10:02:37 PM · #32
Originally posted by jemison:

Hi folks! I see that Dean has beaten me to the punch...I had asked his permission to post his letter to me, then went to dinner and came back to see he has done it. I would like to post here publicly my reply to him now (made earlier in a reply to his letter) I think it speaks for itself as to my feelings. I think he is brave to do this:

Dean,

I want to thank you for making what is certainly a very hard, gut-wrentching apology. I want you to know that I accept it without reservation. It means a lot to me in a positive way - much more than the negative feelings your use gave me. It takes a lot to recognize one's mistakes, and takes even more to own up to them.

There is no reason for you to let this thing disgrace you. We all make mistakes and can only hope for forgiveness. I forgive you Dean. I probably over reacted in the heat of the moment and the shock that I received. Don't let this ruin your love of photography, nor your self respect. Please move on and have a good, no, GREAT life, not forgetting this incident, but remembering it as a milestone in your development. Above all, forgive yourself.

If it would not embarrass you, I would love for you to let me post your message to me on the DP forum. Most people are generous in their view of redemption. I don't mean this in a religious way. I am not at all religious. I mean this in a human way - we are all human and all make mistakes.

Thank you again for owning up and asking forgiveness. You are well on the way to overcoming this. Good luck!

Bill


beautiful.....
02/10/2006 10:17:16 PM · #33
I too commend him for coming here head down and hat in hand. But while it's great to forgive him, that doesn't mean the act should go unpunished.

We just banned a member for forging the EXIF on his challenge entries. I think a similar punishment would be appropriate in this case too. I don't know if the ban is permanent or not. Actually, I would personally hope it's for a limited time period, like one year. No punishment should be "permanent", IMHO.

A ban may not even constitute punishment, since he only participated in one challenge here, but it's all we can really do.

Edit: In addition, we should ask for proof that the image he entered is indeed his. If not, it may need to be removed from the challenge.


Message edited by author 2006-02-10 22:19:13.
02/10/2006 10:19:34 PM · #34
I for one accept his repentence and think there is no more cause for action against him.

' . substr('//www.kpriest.com/dpchallenge/angryvillager2.gif', strrpos('//www.kpriest.com/dpchallenge/angryvillager2.gif', '/') + 1) . '

After all, he will be busy putting out the fires in his village. ;-)

J/K - forgive and move on.
02/10/2006 10:22:22 PM · #35
Everybody deserves a second chance if they recognize it for what it is, IMO.

-Bill

call me a bleeding heart...it won't be the first time
02/10/2006 10:23:30 PM · #36
Originally posted by deapee:

Originally posted by Sonifo:

Originally posted by deapee:

[quote=Sonifo]
I don't have an anger problem -- I'm not even angry.


You could have fooled me. I don't believe it. You can talk till your face turns blue but from viewing all your comments in all the threads..I see a very angry young man who needs a big hug.

Yeah, I do have issues..lots..that is why I am very forgiving of others and I hope others can do the same for me if ever needed.


Then don't believe me, I could care less...but I can assure everyone else who is reading this that I am in no way, shape, or form, angry one single bit...I could care less.

I think the guy committed a shallow act by taking someone else's work and passing it off as his own...I think he's a shallow person who has a lot to learn in life, and I truly am sorry that you're all so willing to accept the guy's apology.

Had the guy taken the photos down on his own without being caught and apologized, that *may* be a different story...but as it stands, no way...it's like when you were younger and you did something wrong, were you sorry that you did it, or sorry that you got caught?

Whatever though...I think I'm done with this thread. I say burn him.


' . substr('//www.hawkins.nu/gtchat/images/hugsmall.gif', strrpos('//www.hawkins.nu/gtchat/images/hugsmall.gif', '/') + 1) . '


02/10/2006 10:25:55 PM · #37
Originally posted by Sonifo:

' . substr('//www.hawkins.nu/gtchat/images/hugsmall.gif', strrpos('//www.hawkins.nu/gtchat/images/hugsmall.gif', '/') + 1) . '


Group hug
02/10/2006 10:52:06 PM · #38
Originally posted by deapee:

Then don't believe me, I could care less...but I can assure everyone else who is reading this that I am in no way, shape, or form, angry one single bit...I could care less.

Whatever though...I think I'm done with this thread. I say burn him.


I think capital punishment is in order here. I mean, I'm not mad and I donít have any anger problems but it would make us all feel better to get rid of vermin like him. So by all means yes, letís burn him. One strike and your out I say!
02/10/2006 10:57:04 PM · #39
Dave,
I didn't get into the pissing match, but there's a big hole in my tongue now! ;)

Sure am glad that I didn't invoke the wrath of anyone like you when I was a teenager. I did some pretty bad things, too. Isn't it possible that this young man might benefit more from being held accountable and mentored by the good folks at DPC than by being tossed away? It might be more beneficial than the counseling that you suggested.

Everyone has the chance to cheat on this site; and I suspect many do. I, for one, have been guilty of manipulating the images of others for the sake of humor. In the anonymity of the internet, I failed to realize how irresponsible and hurtful this could be. It won't happen again, so please don't lynch me too. After this mess, there's a good chance this young man is too humiliated to try such a stunt again. How do we know that some other new member isn't cheating right now? I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

You seem to have very high expectations for yourself. You might be happier if you accept that the rest of the world is never going to rise to your standard. <Throws out hug, ducks and runs from room.>

Message edited by author 2006-02-10 22:58:34.
02/10/2006 11:08:23 PM · #40
Originally posted by greatandsmall:

Dave,
I didn't get into the pissing match, but there's a big hole in my tongue now! ;)

Sure am glad that I didn't invoke the wrath of anyone like you when I was a teenager. I did some pretty bad things, too. Isn't it possible that this young man might benefit more from being held accountable and mentored by the good folks at DPC than by being tossed away? It might be more beneficial than the counseling that you suggested.

Everyone has the chance to cheat on this site; and I suspect many do. I, for one, have been guilty of manipulation the images of others for the sake of humor. In the anonymity of the internet, I failed to realize how irresponsible and hurtful this could be. It won't happen again, so please don't lynch me too. After this mess, there's a good chance this young man is too humiliated to try such a stunt again. How do we know that some other new member isn't cheating right now? I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

You seem to have very high expectations for yourself. You might be happier if you accept that the rest of the world is never going to rise to your standard. <Throws out hug, ducks and runs from room.>


Why would I say something bad against you? You said what you had to say in a respectful, adult-manner. We're all entitled to our opinions, and you're right...and I find it an instinct of mine to view myself on a higher pedestal than most other people...not sure exactly why, but like I said, it's just instinct.

I'm a competitive guy. I'll go toe to toe with anyone and I'll feel as though I can win every time...and if I lose whatever the compeition is, I find a reason, and I better myself for the next competition...Life is about improvement and competition...heck, that's what this site is based on. We all enjoy competition from time to time, some just dislike losing more than others...I'll never feel exactly right if I'm not at the top of the pack...it's just how I am.

--

Anyway, yeah, we all make mistakes, I agree...some of us pay for our mistakes and watch others slip through the cracks. Personally, I feel as though I'm one of those guys that pays dearly for all mistakes I've ever made...and if there isn't someone to catch me, I'll catch myself.

I think it's funny that so many people assume to know so much about everyone else. No one knows a single thing about me other than the fact that I'm the 'evil, contradicting, blatantly honest kid that needs a hug'...

You're right, maybe I am a kid to most of you because of my age, but no one knows a single thing of anything that I've been through my entire life. No one knows where I've been, where I am, or where I'm going. No one knows what I've seen or what I've done.

I've known 16-year olds that have seen more, lived more, and know more than 99% of the folks on this site that are over thirty...and that's no lie.

--

That being said, I cannot blame anyone for the way they think. I can't blame anyone for how they view me -- I am, to you people, what I portray through my writing and my attitude on forums posts...I think it's a shame, personally...I wish I knew every last one of you, and I wish every last one of you knew me.

I'm not a bad person, but I believe in telling it like it is, and I believe in paying for what you do...an eye for an eye, if you will. Like I said, bash me all you folks want (and that is not intended for you, Roxanne, because what you said is respectful), I am numb.
02/10/2006 11:13:36 PM · #41
Okay an apology is nice, but a sincere one is better, and that can't be known till the man has taken actions to prove his sincerity?

But what is all this commending for something so difficult?

If you ask me, any statement made on the internet is not difficult to make. How does it take balls to type out an apology and display it to people you have probably mostly never met in real life?

I mean, this is a virtual community, I think people forget that sometimes, an apology live and in person is the more difficult, more sincere action. I'm not sure if it would have been possible in that case but nonetheless, he should have apologized, he doesn't need to be given cookies for the fact that he admitted stealing intellectual property.

I just can't even see how taking the steps to apologize in an internet forum would be difficult! A computer isn't gonna scold you or yell back at you.
02/10/2006 11:18:15 PM · #42
My two cents.

Burn him? How? We don't have the authority. Even if he is kicked off the site he could come back, or just browse to nick shots. We're teethless. So, let's focus on what can be done.

Dean has turned to face the music. Okay, so he hasn't had to look anyone in the eye to do it, but still he has. Personally I think that he has done what he can. Not bad for a teenager. This whole thing could be one of the best darn lessons he has learnt - and that includes learning that some people do forgive, and others just can't.

Regarding trust. Well, that's got to be earnt, by everyone. No one should take it for granted. Dean now has to earn it increment by increment. I'll be interested to see if his professed love for photography and expressed eagerness to learn will keep him here despite all that is now set against him.

Dean: Come on mate. You've faced the music; now walk the walk.

Deapee: Forgiveness is hard. Very hard. It means letting go and not holding on. Takes a bit of maturity, but it worth in in the long run. You won't get anything out of seeing Dean toasted.
02/10/2006 11:23:17 PM · #43
Originally posted by PaulE:

Deapee: Forgiveness is hard. Very hard. It means letting go and not holding on. Takes a bit of maturity, but it worth in in the long run. You won't get anything out of seeing Dean toasted.


You guys are right...let's just open our arms and accept the thief into the community and treat him like a long-lost neighbor. Let's tell him that what he's done, by admitting he was wrong, is the most honest, beautiful thing that's ever happned...

Yeah right...that's teaching the kid a lesson alright...nothing like catching your kid stealing from the store and then when you confront him, he apologizes and you tell him how great and awesome it was that he apologized, and hope that he learned from his mistake.

LOL Please...I wish I had parents like you all as I was growing up.

--

People need to be accountable for the crimes that they commit...and this isn't just some petty little arguement, name-calling stunt, this is a serious offense. The kid should be banned from the site, someone should contact his parents and let them know what he's been doing lol.
02/10/2006 11:40:14 PM · #44
Maybe send him off to SE Asia for a savage caning? I see your point but he did at least have the courage to make a public apology instead of scampering off and hiding.

Message edited by author 2006-02-10 23:41:42.
02/10/2006 11:45:49 PM · #45
give him a go.. if anyone should forgive him its jemison and he has, so why do some feel the need to keep it going.
Yes it was wrong but a very public apology is a hard thing to write, especially coming into a site that claims to be a union of friends from around the world. Come on... give it up.. stop wasting all this negitive energy. I am so over this place.
02/10/2006 11:49:40 PM · #46
Originally posted by deapee:

Originally posted by PaulE:

Deapee: Forgiveness is hard. Very hard. It means letting go and not holding on. Takes a bit of maturity, but it worth in in the long run. You won't get anything out of seeing Dean toasted.


You guys are right...let's just open our arms and accept the thief into the community and treat him like a long-lost neighbor. Let's tell him that what he's done, by admitting he was wrong, is the most honest, beautiful thing that's ever happned...

Yeah right...that's teaching the kid a lesson alright...nothing like catching your kid stealing from the store and then when you confront him, he apologizes and you tell him how great and awesome it was that he apologized, and hope that he learned from his mistake.

LOL Please...I wish I had parents like you all as I was growing up.

--

People need to be accountable for the crimes that they commit...and this isn't just some petty little arguement, name-calling stunt, this is a serious offense. The kid should be banned from the site, someone should contact his parents and let them know what he's been doing lol.


Deapee: Much of what you say is true. And your reception of Dean's apology ensures that he has not met purely with open arms. As I said - all of this carries learning opportunities.

Nonetheless we are teethless. We do not have the authority to contact his parents (assuming he hasn't spoken to them himself). And banning him from the site will not prevent further theft.

One way forward is if he stays involved with DPC; and we demonstrate appropriate behaviour, and be role models.

In the words of Nelson Mandela - 'They say familiarity breeds contempt. I say they are wrong. Familiarity breeds understanding'. My point; with us Dean can over time learn not only that theft is wrong, but why it is wrong, and what impact it has on others.

I challenge you, Deapee, to be a role model: to consider not only your actions but also your words.
02/10/2006 11:52:22 PM · #47
perhaps getting caught and the public backlash was exactly what he needed to see the error of his ways. So yes, getting caught probably did cause him to apologize. But the more important point is he did acknowledge his wrongdoing and said he wouldn't do it again. And that result is the positive aspect, not how he got to that point. Sometimes, when we make mistakes, what corrects our ways is seeing the "love" even when we feel terrible. Because out of that awareness, we dare not do it again, especially when it hurts other people.
02/11/2006 12:01:00 AM · #48
The great ChrisW123 forgives your sins, my son. You may submit to challenges as it was your first time now. :)

Actually like others have said, thumbs up for doing the right thing and appologizing. You don't need to copy others work, give yourself a chance first to see what YOU can do. Then, if you feel you still need to rip other works, feel free to snag some of mine for your challenges. :D :D
02/11/2006 12:05:20 AM · #49
i need to make one other thing straight, i no i stole someones work and used it to my advantage, but i only ever stole one work, and i know i did the wrong thing - and i will never do it again... but for those people who keep saying that "oh he probably stole all the other photo's he had in his gallery" i didn't i took the one and the rest are mine. I apologised to Bill J and he has and i have accepted what i did was wrong and we have moved on. please understand how sorry i am for what i did, and i don't blame any of you for wanting me kicked from DP.
Dean
02/11/2006 12:09:19 AM · #50
Originally posted by dinodeano89:

i need to make one other thing straight, i no i stole someones work and used it to my advantage, but i only ever stole one work, and i know i did the wrong thing - and i will never do it again... but for those people who keep saying that "oh he probably stole all the other photo's he had in his gallery" i didn't i took the one and the rest are mine. I apologised to Bill J and he has and i have accepted what i did was wrong and we have moved on. please understand how sorry i am for what i did, and i don't blame any of you for wanting me kicked from DP.
Dean


I thinking kicking someone off is wrong...maybe you should be put on a probationary period...but definitley not get kicked off. If I was Bill your appology would be excepted and I would move on. It seems as though he has, or at least said he has. Just remember other people's work is their work, if you want to feature them ask...
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