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DPChallenge Forums >> Challenge Announcements >> 'Off-Centered Subject II' Results Recalculated
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02/08/2006 08:48:38 AM · #26
My opinon... when Joey won with the photo in this thread, everyone screamed that the ruled need to be strongly enforced, and when they are..... SC gets screamed at that its not right...
02/08/2006 08:51:54 AM · #27
Originally posted by Di:

My opinon... when Joey won with the photo in this thread, everyone screamed that the ruled need to be strongly enforced...


So they started today?
02/08/2006 08:55:00 AM · #28
Read the forums, Mark.. no it didn't start today...this isnt the first time that someone got hit up for a major element and Joey's photo got put inthe thread because of the DQ.



Originally posted by nsbca7:

Originally posted by Di:

My opinon... when Joey won with the photo in this thread, everyone screamed that the ruled need to be strongly enforced...


So they started today?
02/08/2006 08:58:25 AM · #29
[quote=Di] Read the forums, Mark.. no it didn't start today...this isnt the first time that someone got hit up for a major element and Joey's photo got put inthe thread because of the DQ.

So instead of me having to read the contents of the site for the past several months cue me in. What other images that you may know of were DQ'd in an advanced editing challenge for added blur?

02/08/2006 08:58:48 AM · #30
It's just a crapshoot. Sometimes it's OK, maybe it's not.
02/08/2006 09:00:24 AM · #31
Honestly- SC got quiet because Manic is at work, and I'm trying to get to work. :)

I didn't even pay attention to who submitted the entry in question until this morning when I caught the thread. :)

Now- in this case you added a complete new element (motion blur) to the shot. It was never present, or even implied in the original. I don't have time to check, but as I recall, both Joey and Falc had implied blur present that was enhanced.

I'm totally willing to stand corrected, again keep in mind I'm trying to answer here as I'm on the way out the door.

Now as has been said before- we are working on the clarification for major elements. As you guys all noted, it's not the easiest thing to clarify.

In the interum, I am not going to stop voting on images because we are revising the rules. If you are adding blur- ask SC if it's pushing it. This isn't hard, and it's no more time consuming than the discussion we have to have for these entries anyway.

Now, if you feel the need to holler that we are out to get you, I sure as heck can't stop you. but yelling, screaming, hooting and hollering isn't going to make this go any faster. :)

To recap-

1) Didn't see it was you
2) No motion present, stationary object
3) Bulk of impact of shot from addition of blur
4) Major element added = DQ
5) Questions? Next time you add blur- double check with SC. Takes you 5 minutes and saves us all headache and frusteration.

And on that note, I'm off to work so I will not be responding. I got a long shift. :)
02/08/2006 09:16:19 AM · #32
Read this thread ..... from last week.....

DQ'd...
02/08/2006 09:16:48 AM · #33
honest to God, i am about done with challenges.

i don't edit my images other than making minor adjustments, just because i'm too much of a chicken shit as to what i may or may not be able to get away with.

when i said in the other thread that i don't want to push the envelope in this manner, shannon said it was a pity. maybe so, but who needs this type of aggravation? as is, there really is no level playing field.

i don't give into to any of that crap about favoritism playing into rules interpretation. i think it's just that the sc doesn't have a meeting of the minds as to how to interpret the rules.

i'm not entering any more advanced editing challenges until a new rule set is published.
02/08/2006 09:17:32 AM · #34
Originally posted by blemt:

Now- in this case you added a complete new element (motion blur) to the shot. It was never present, or even implied in the original. I don't have time to check, but as I recall, both Joey and Falc had implied blur present that was enhanced.



Falc's image was taken with a wide angle prime of a stationary object. Tell me how there was implied motion blur present in the original image. (feel free to answer this when you finish your long shift)

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02/08/2006 09:20:31 AM · #35
Rather than splitting hairs and having this happen every challenge, let's just ban all motion and zoom blur filters. Problem solved. No grey area. You use motion blur or zoom blurs, DQ. Simple as that. Why bother rewriting and trying to refine what constitutes this or that or the other thing. That makes everything harder than it is.
02/08/2006 09:22:32 AM · #36
Originally posted by nsbca7:

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Original cropped to the size to be used for the entry before any other editing.

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/441/thumb/286172.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/441/thumb/286172.jpg', '/') + 1) . '
Image entered in challenge.

Major elements?


Personally I think the original shot was better anyway :-)
02/08/2006 09:22:47 AM · #37
Originally posted by laurielblack:

Rather than splitting hairs and having this happen every challenge, let's just ban all motion and zoom blur filters. Problem solved. No grey area. You use motion blur or zoom blurs, DQ. Simple as that. Why bother rewriting and trying to refine what constitutes this or that or the other thing. That makes everything harder than it is.


I would agree with that, but let us go one further and ban all blur filters.
02/08/2006 09:22:55 AM · #38
My image was disqualified from the "best of 2005" challenge for the same unclear reason.
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I created a thread to discuss it and to try to get a clear understanding of the DQ but I got more confused, I was given different reasons for the DQ from different SC members, one said it was the motion blur, another said it was the background which was obscured, then it was a lake that was removed, then it was that the image looked so different from the original which is against the "SPIRIT" of DPC!!

Here is the thread, you can read it if you really have nothing else to do:
Followed the rules and still disqualified !!

The two major problems I see here are:
1- The rules are not being applied consistantly, the other two images mentioned here are a proof, and no Clara, the blur did not exist in them either.
2- The whole major element thing is very subjective, someone else pointed to this one the other day where the whole background was removed, but no response (or at least a clarification) from the SC:
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02/08/2006 09:26:28 AM · #39
Originally posted by marksimms:

Originally posted by nsbca7:

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Original cropped to the size to be used for the entry before any other editing.

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/441/thumb/286172.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/441/thumb/286172.jpg', '/') + 1) . '
Image entered in challenge.

Major elements?


Personally I think the original shot was better anyway :-)


It may have been. If you look at the majority of my images they are done with a minimal of editing other then cropping. This was a test of sorts just to see how it would fair as I had stated in another thread I was going to attempt.
02/08/2006 09:33:15 AM · #40
It appears to be marginal at the most, and truthfully I don't see an infraction, which I would base on allowable use of filters in advanced. The rules for filters in advanced is becomming too complicated.
Adding grain to a picture to me seems a more aggresive filter layer than this example.
From the sample in this thread it appears his clean up is not drastic either.
Admitedly the filter he used is controversial, but his actual use of it appears fairly tame.
02/08/2006 09:34:14 AM · #41
Originally posted by laurielblack:

Rather than splitting hairs and having this happen every challenge, let's just ban all motion and zoom blur filters. Problem solved. No grey area. You use motion blur or zoom blurs, DQ. Simple as that. Why bother rewriting and trying to refine what constitutes this or that or the other thing. That makes everything harder than it is.


I agree. As long as these filters are allowable, there will always be different interpretations as to what's too much, or what becomes an added major element.
02/08/2006 09:43:29 AM · #42
My lord, the SC is out of freaking control. Ya'll need to re-position your heads into reality.
02/08/2006 09:46:37 AM · #43
Originally posted by laurielblack:

Rather than splitting hairs and having this happen every challenge, let's just ban all motion and zoom blur filters. Problem solved. No grey area. You use motion blur or zoom blurs, DQ. Simple as that. Why bother rewriting and trying to refine what constitutes this or that or the other thing. That makes everything harder than it is.


The only problem with this is that as time goes by, more and more tools will appear (even in-camera ones) as the software and firmware developers think outside the "film" box.
People keep saying this is "Digital PHOTOGRAPHY Challenge" with the emphasis on photography, but there's another word there, Digital.
It's going to become harder and harder to judge photos on an analog (film) standard.
Eventually the judgement of what is liked or not liked will fall to the general community in the way of scoring. It would be nice to judge pictures on what we see and not the process.
02/08/2006 09:51:48 AM · #44
Originally posted by nsbca7:

Originally posted by blemt:

Now- in this case you added a complete new element (motion blur) to the shot. It was never present, or even implied in the original. I don't have time to check, but as I recall, both Joey and Falc had implied blur present that was enhanced.



Falc's image was taken with a wide angle prime of a stationary object. Tell me how there was implied motion blur present in the original image. (feel free to answer this when you finish your long shift)

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I would like to see original image for this.

Nick
02/08/2006 09:55:46 AM · #45
Originally posted by nsbca7:

SC gets awful quiet.


Message edited by author 2006-02-08 11:04:30.
02/08/2006 10:12:23 AM · #46
Originally posted by nsbca7:

Originally posted by cpanaioti:

Originally posted by nsbca7:

Originally posted by cpanaioti:

Originally posted by nsbca7:

Originally posted by cpanaioti:

One thing, each rule is not a stand alone. It is interpreted/applied in conjunction with all the other rules.


So explain it to me.


Explain what? How all the rules are linked together?

edit: BTW, I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with the SC decision.


Explain how the editing of the Red Dawn image was interpreted/applied in conjunction with all the other rules to be disqualified.


It's not up to me. Have an SC member explain it. They did mention major elements.


Then why did you bring it up?


Because you chose one rule of the set to be applied on its own. You're not the first to think that each rule can be applied separately without regards to others in the set.
02/08/2006 10:13:54 AM · #47
Originally posted by cpanaioti:

Originally posted by nsbca7:

Originally posted by cpanaioti:

Originally posted by nsbca7:

Originally posted by cpanaioti:

Originally posted by nsbca7:

Originally posted by cpanaioti:

One thing, each rule is not a stand alone. It is interpreted/applied in conjunction with all the other rules.


So explain it to me.


Explain what? How all the rules are linked together?

edit: BTW, I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with the SC decision.


Explain how the editing of the Red Dawn image was interpreted/applied in conjunction with all the other rules to be disqualified.


It's not up to me. Have an SC member explain it. They did mention major elements.


Then why did you bring it up?


Because you chose one rule of the set to be applied on its own. You're not the first to think that each rule can be applied separately without regards to others in the set.


So tell me how this applies to my picture.
02/08/2006 10:15:21 AM · #48
Originally posted by marksimms:

Originally posted by nsbca7:

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Original cropped to the size to be used for the entry before any other editing.

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/441/thumb/286172.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/441/thumb/286172.jpg', '/') + 1) . '
Image entered in challenge.

Major elements?


Personally I think the original shot was better anyway :-)


Me too, although, I enjoyed the more vivid sunset and lack of telephone poles, I did NOT like the motion blur whatsoever.

Of note, I think people need to STOP digging up old photos from last year and whining "they were allowed, why not me". When it known that the rules are being tightened. The examples they pointed to caused much controversy when they were not DQ'd. And since there has been a tighter belt. They've told us on several occasions that a rules clarification is in the works. I am quite sure as soon as they are done they will post it for all.
02/08/2006 10:15:53 AM · #49
Originally posted by nsbca7:

Originally posted by cpanaioti:

Originally posted by nsbca7:

Originally posted by cpanaioti:

Originally posted by nsbca7:

Originally posted by cpanaioti:

Originally posted by nsbca7:

Originally posted by cpanaioti:

One thing, each rule is not a stand alone. It is interpreted/applied in conjunction with all the other rules.


So explain it to me.


Explain what? How all the rules are linked together?

edit: BTW, I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with the SC decision.


Explain how the editing of the Red Dawn image was interpreted/applied in conjunction with all the other rules to be disqualified.


It's not up to me. Have an SC member explain it. They did mention major elements.


Then why did you bring it up?


Because you chose one rule of the set to be applied on its own. You're not the first to think that each rule can be applied separately without regards to others in the set.


So tell me how this applies to my picture.


Uh, you stated the one rule that allows filters to be applied in advanced editing challenges without reference to the others rules in the ruleset?

Whatever.
02/08/2006 10:26:34 AM · #50
Originally posted by theSaj:

Of note, I think people need to STOP digging up old photos from last year and whining "they were allowed, why not me". When it known that the rules are being tightened. The examples they pointed to caused much controversy when they were not DQ'd. And since there has been a tighter belt. They've told us on several occasions that a rules clarification is in the works. I am quite sure as soon as they are done they will post it for all.


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This was from last week. Until it is posted in the rules section what is and what is not allowed I have been basing my interpretation of the rules on what has been allowed in the past. So in this context what was allowed last year is relevant and should still be allowed this year. The rules haven't been altered since 2004.

Message edited by author 2006-02-08 11:04:15.
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