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02/07/2006 01:47:45 PM · #1
For the next free study I would either like to suggest categories (such as people, pets, nature, misc.) and you can only enter one, or have much longer to vote. If you had categories but wanted an overall winner, have a "Best Overall Free Study" where the top 10 or 15 entries of each category are put together for a second vote. This should be done after the initial vote but before any winners are announced. This might work for Best of 2006, too.
02/07/2006 02:01:36 PM · #2
That is a good idea. Someone on the SC mentioned it a while back, so I'll go see if I can find it and renew that discussion. ;)

thanks
02/07/2006 02:08:59 PM · #3
I was thinking the same thing. It's very hard to compare a portrait with a landscape (for example).
02/07/2006 02:12:30 PM · #4
great idea...
02/07/2006 02:24:39 PM · #5
Originally posted by chaimelle:

For the next free study I would either like to suggest categories (such as people, pets, nature, misc.) and you can only enter one, or have much longer to vote. If you had categories but wanted an overall winner, have a "Best Overall Free Study" where the top 10 or 15 entries of each category are put together for a second vote. This should be done after the initial vote but before any winners are announced. This might work for Best of 2006, too.


What would it make it a free study then? Sounds like like catagorizing it into just another challenge.
02/07/2006 02:26:25 PM · #6
Good question Brent though based on the example given it could be meant for the Best of the year challenges only.
02/07/2006 02:28:28 PM · #7
best of the year, is best of the year to me. Isn't it that much sweeter to do well in a competition of so many entries?

I never enter anyways but I'm just thinking to win that would be pretty nice.
02/07/2006 02:40:00 PM · #8
Brent - Ditto to that - Its a "Free" study... any form of restriction would be a contradiction in terms obviously.

As for the 'repeat vote' mentioned by another - I think that would be highly biased in any regard; when in fact once you vote, you can go back, view them, and make your adjustments before closing ---

What would it make it a free study then? Sounds like like catagorizing it into just another challenge. [/quote]
02/07/2006 02:42:12 PM · #9
Originally posted by Brent_Ward:


What would it make it a free study then? Sounds like like catagorizing it into just another challenge.


You could shoot whatever you like and it would fit in somewhere. For instance, if the category was animals it could be a pet portrait, zoo shot, wildlife or anything with an animal involved. You could just take what you want and see where it fits. The categories should be broad, but the people shots would be separate from the landscapes and the animals.

Edit to add: I have 169 votes in Free Study and 241 in Blue II.

Petraka: I, for one, would not mind having best landscape and 10th best overall. (In my dreams, maybe) Yes, it is nice to win a blue out of 600 or 800 shots, but categories would make voting easier. I don't even have 200 votes yet, so apparantly the numbers have scared voters away.

Message edited by author 2006-02-07 14:43:24.
02/07/2006 02:43:52 PM · #10
How about a free study without cats? That would eliminate about a hundred entries;-)
02/07/2006 02:45:55 PM · #11
I'm not sure why it matters to have more than 200 votes on an image. What's a matter with having only 100 votes on image?

Message edited by author 2006-02-07 14:46:09.
02/07/2006 02:56:54 PM · #12
Originally posted by Brent_Ward:

I'm not sure why it matters to have more than 200 votes on an image. What's a matter with having only 100 votes on image?


Except for once when the DPC servers were down, I've voted on every photo of every challenge I've entered. If everyone would used that rule, every entry would have at least 619 votes in this free study. I know many will use the exuse of limited bandwidth of dial up, but last informal poll put dial up use at less than 10% of DPC users (if I remember correctly). The other 90% ????.

edit: 618 since you can't vote on your own image.

Message edited by author 2006-02-07 14:58:10.
02/07/2006 02:58:41 PM · #13
chaimelle - I think you've answered your own question in fact.... "For instance, if the category was" - the operative word there is category.

Its the very reason there's not a category in a Free Study.

Besides; with all the deep subjectivity in photography, its hard enough to keep folks on task in the first place - IE the challenge could be Cat's, and the next thing ya know someone has turned in a shot of a CAT Earthmover Tractor [made by CAT]...
02/07/2006 03:13:43 PM · #14
In "Best of 2005" there were 829 entries. In the recent "Fantasy" challenge there were 106 entries. Each of these challenges awarded 3 ribbons.

If the Free Studies and Best-of's were split into, say, 4 broad categories for voting then there would be 12 ribbons total in the category voting, and then the top 10 from each category would be automatically entered in a second round of voting for an overall winner, and 3 of the entrants would receive an additional ribbon in that.

It seems very reasonable to me. Think of Dog Shows; best-of-breed, best-of-group, and best-of-show.

Robt.
02/07/2006 03:14:51 PM · #15
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

In "Best of 2005" there were 829 entries. In the recent "Fantasy" challenge there were 106 entries. Each of these challenges awarded 3 ribbons.

If the Free Studies and Best-of's were split into, say, 4 broad categories for voting then there would be 12 ribbons total in the category voting, and then the top 10 from each category would be automatically entered in a second round of voting for an overall winner, and 3 of the entrants would receive an additional ribbon in that.

It seems very reasonable to me. Think of Dog Shows; best-of-breed, best-of-group, and best-of-show.

Robt.


Hmmmm I like this idea a lot Robert ;)
02/07/2006 03:15:59 PM · #16
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Think of Dog Shows; best-of-breed, best-of-group, and best-of-show.

Robt.


But at dog shows can't one image win multiple ribbons?

edit: dog not image

Message edited by author 2006-02-07 15:16:38.
02/07/2006 03:18:59 PM · #17
What about a free study divided up by average score. All us 5 and belows could face off. A challenge for the challenged.

Ben VanBergen

View my photo's at:
//vanbergen.dpchallenge.com/
02/07/2006 03:23:39 PM · #18
The categories need to be broad. Cat is way too narrow. And when you have a weekly challenge, there is one topic of the week (or one of two for open challenges). This would be a "take anything you want", but if you take a pet portrait it would be judged against other shots with animals. If you take a boy and his dog on the beach, you could put it in people or animals or nature. The idea is to have smaller groupings of entries to vote on instead of 600 to 800 pictures in one challenge, not to tell people what kind of picture to take.

The problem with only 100 votes is that a small percent of the "poplulation" is deciding the outcome. Any one vote carries more weight when there are less voters. (I think we should have stopped at 100 voters as I was over 6 at the time and have fallen since then!) There are less opinions about each entry, and with so many to judge there are far fewer comments.
02/07/2006 03:26:11 PM · #19
I for one really like the free studies for the variety they give us. Voting on them is refreshing, and I find I can vote far more pics without having to stop because of voter burn-out. I do like Robert's idea, but it would mean the initial challenges would all have less variety within them, and so they wouldn't be as fun to vote... for me.
02/07/2006 03:26:26 PM · #20
Originally posted by Brent_Ward:

I'm not sure why it matters to have more than 200 votes on an image. What's a matter with having only 100 votes on image?


You could handicap things this way. Go off a 90 day average and have catagories like 4 and down, 5&6's, 7 on up. Same thing is done in billiards. But I wouldn't suggest it, I hate handicap systems.
02/07/2006 03:26:32 PM · #21
Originally posted by hyperfocal:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Think of Dog Shows; best-of-breed, best-of-group, and best-of-show.

Robt.


But at dog shows can't one image win multiple ribbons?

edit: dog not image


Yes, that's the POINT: we just had 829 images face off for 3 ribbons, with great portraits being pitted against great landscapes and great still lives and so forth. Why not, in "Best of Year" at least, be able to vote on "best portrait", "best landscape", etc and then pit the best of the best against each other for "Best of the Year"?

R.
02/07/2006 03:30:17 PM · #22
Originally posted by kirbic:

I for one really like the free studies for the variety they give us. Voting on them is refreshing, and I find I can vote far more pics without having to stop because of voter burn-out. I do like Robert's idea, but it would mean the initial challenges would all have less variety within them, and so they wouldn't be as fun to vote... for me.


I donno about that; all you'd have to do would be vote in one category for 10 images then move to the next one, and do them all in rotation that way. You'd still be voting, in the end, on the exact same group of images in toto, and it's up to you how you space them out if you seek variety and texture in your voting.

Robt.
02/07/2006 03:32:57 PM · #23
Maybe we need to do this in reverse. Start off with the totally open (subject wise) free study. When you enter, you get to choose a category which does not show up on the voting page. After the initial voting but before the winners are announced the top 20 images of each category are put out for a week to be voted on again.

This would solve the 800+ entries and 3 ribbons problem, but not help with the voting.

Message edited by author 2006-02-07 15:49:29.
02/07/2006 03:49:12 PM · #24
Originally posted by chaimelle:

Maybe we need to do this in reverse. Start off with the totally open (subject wise) free study. When you enter, you get to choose a category which does not show up on the voting page. After the initial voting but before the winners are announced the top 20 images of each category are put out for a week to be voted on again.


That's an interesting twist :-) I like it.

R.
02/07/2006 03:54:19 PM · #25
Think you guys are either getting confused between "Free Study" and/or "Best of the Year"... Two totally different matters.

If you're talking about the best of the year, well, the first time the Catagories are posted, someone will want more, then where is the line. Potentially in a best of the year, you could end up with only one shot in a catagory [theoretically] - that math fails.

The point of a best of the year, is just that - its supposed to be the best all around image from all things photographic, judged by users.

I am sure the admin's already go through hell on feedback for challenge topics now... With at least part of the objective for global ease of ribbons, I would think that the fact that they now have only 3-4 (and on rare times 5) winners at one time... Otherwise you could end up with pages of winners at a time - kinda not the intent of DPC's origination!

Thanks,

jf
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