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01/18/2006 02:55:16 AM · #1
Tribute challenge. I believe that is should be one of the few advanced editing challenges for an open challenge. It's still early enough and there is precedent for changing the challenge guidelines. Discussion welcome!
01/18/2006 03:20:22 AM · #2
Any specific reasoning behind this proposal?
...just to help spark discussion.
(although I think I can kind of see where you're heading)
01/18/2006 03:24:42 AM · #3
None of the great artists took a negative out of the camera and printed it as is. Ansel Adams wrote a large volume about the negative itself and another volume about the print... It seems to me that using basic editing to emulate the great photographers is like emulating the great chefs of the world using only a hot plate and a microwave...
01/18/2006 03:34:08 AM · #4
I see it as a healthy challenge for the Basic Editing masses.
We already have an Ansel Adams challenge for Advanced editing awhile back, havent we? Havent we already had fun?

The way I see it, having this tribute in the Basic Ed is good, so we can all try improving our composition this time :)

dont flame me
01/18/2006 03:35:33 AM · #5
Originally posted by crayon:

I see it as a healthy challenge for the Basic Editing masses.
We already have an Ansel Adams challenge for Advanced editing awhile back, havent we? Havent we already had fun?

The way I see it, having this tribute in the Basic Ed is good, so we can all try improving our composition this time :)

dont flame me


Won't flame ya, just ask ya to go to a book store and look at some high end photography magazines...
01/18/2006 03:43:04 AM · #6
Originally posted by TooCool:

None of the great artists took a negative out of the camera and printed it as is.


Uhhhh no ...

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Henri Cartier-Bresson. (August 22, 1908 August 3, 2004) was a French photographer. He was commonly considered the undisputed master of candid photography using the small-format 35mm rangefinder camera.

Cartier-Bresson was considered by most to be the father of photojournalism. He exclusively used the Leica 35 mm rangefinder cameras equipped with normal 50mm lenses or occasionally a telephoto for landscapes. He would have the camera's chrome body taped black to make it less conspicuous. He was one of the first photographers to shoot in the 35mm format and helped to develop the photojournalistic "street photography" style that influenced generations of photographers to come. Kodak's Plus-X and Tri-X films and the sharpness of Leica lenses allowed documentary photographers to work almost by stealth, to capture the events that surrounded them. Photographers were no longer bound by a huge press camera, or an intrusive flash gun and bulbs. These photographers operated with what Henri called "the velvet hand...the hawk's eye." Henri never photographed with a flash bulb. He said: "Impolite...like coming to a concert with a pistol in your hand." He believed in composing his photographs in his camera and not in the darkroom. He showcased this belief by having his photographs be printed at full-frame and completely free of any manipulation.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have forever been in awe of his works. Just reviewing for this post, they still take my breath away. No-tricks camera, no through-the-lens focusing. This was photography at its purest - and its best. Follow the links to his portraits, and his photojournalism.

Brett

Message edited by author 2006-01-18 03:48:51.
01/18/2006 04:03:31 AM · #7
Originally posted by KiwiPix:

Originally posted by TooCool:

None of the great artists took a negative out of the camera and printed it as is.


Uhhhh no ...

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Henri Cartier-Bresson. (August 22, 1908 August 3, 2004) was a French photographer. He was commonly considered the undisputed master of candid photography using the small-format 35mm rangefinder camera.

Cartier-Bresson was considered by most to be the father of photojournalism. He exclusively used the Leica 35 mm rangefinder cameras equipped with normal 50mm lenses or occasionally a telephoto for landscapes. He would have the camera's chrome body taped black to make it less conspicuous. He was one of the first photographers to shoot in the 35mm format and helped to develop the photojournalistic "street photography" style that influenced generations of photographers to come. Kodak's Plus-X and Tri-X films and the sharpness of Leica lenses allowed documentary photographers to work almost by stealth, to capture the events that surrounded them. Photographers were no longer bound by a huge press camera, or an intrusive flash gun and bulbs. These photographers operated with what Henri called "the velvet hand...the hawk's eye." Henri never photographed with a flash bulb. He said: "Impolite...like coming to a concert with a pistol in your hand." He believed in composing his photographs in his camera and not in the darkroom. He showcased this belief by having his photographs be printed at full-frame and completely free of any manipulation.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have forever been in awe of his works. Just reviewing for this post, they still take my breath away. No-tricks camera, no through-the-lens focusing. This was photography at its purest - and its best. Follow the links to his portraits, and his photojournalism.

Brett


Just because they say no manipulation doesn't mean they were printed with no B&W filters in the darkroom to enhance the image. I really doubt he used a straight enlarger with no filters in the darkroom. I didn't see anything about if he used the zone system or not.
01/18/2006 04:06:54 AM · #8
Yeah say the persons style is like joey l's then you need the editing:)

Message edited by author 2006-01-18 04:07:09.
01/18/2006 04:16:03 AM · #9
Originally posted by Brent_Ward:

Just because they say no manipulation doesn't mean they were printed with no B&W filters in the darkroom to enhance the image. I really doubt he used a straight enlarger with no filters in the darkroom. I didn't see anything about if he used the zone system or not.

Which bit of "...and completely free of any manipulation." didn't sound right?
01/18/2006 04:28:39 AM · #10
Originally posted by KiwiPix:

Originally posted by Brent_Ward:

Just because they say no manipulation doesn't mean they were printed with no B&W filters in the darkroom to enhance the image. I really doubt he used a straight enlarger with no filters in the darkroom. I didn't see anything about if he used the zone system or not.

Which bit of "...and completely free of any manipulation." didn't sound right?


Have you ever printed B&W? You don't get a great print without some sort of manipulation whether it's in the developing time and temp, or filters in the enlarger when printing.

I also doubt his prints were never dust spotted either.
01/18/2006 04:36:54 AM · #11
HCB depended on the decisive moment, that sense of composition. That's why he was great. He was not Ansel Adams. They were two completely different entities.

HCB's images aren't just about being pretty, but they do reflect back a statement on our collective existence. I do think that this characteristic is something that DPC could have more explorations on.

If the site is about learning about photography, I'd hope there would be room for us to explore how and why a photograph doesn't have to be pretty to be "great," and why some images are great precisely because they're NOT pretty.

I don't know this for a fact, and I'll try to research this in the next day or two, but I would NOT be surprised at all to get a confirmation that HCB printed literally, and with no manipulation.

I suppose the quote from him:
"Once the picture is in the box, I'm not all that interested in what happens next. Hunters, after all, aren't cooks,"
suggests that he really didn't care about how his photos got printed.

Message edited by author 2006-01-18 04:53:17.
01/18/2006 12:21:43 PM · #12
Bump for the afternoon crowd.
01/18/2006 12:29:34 PM · #13
Originally posted by TooCool:

Ansel Adams wrote a large volume about the negative itself and another volume about the print...


To add strength to your argument here... his estate had many of his negatives destroyed, because they did not want reprints, because he believed much of the beauty in his photos was due to darkroom work.
01/18/2006 12:44:39 PM · #14
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

Originally posted by TooCool:

Ansel Adams wrote a large volume about the negative itself and another volume about the print...


To add strength to your argument here... his estate had many of his negatives destroyed, because they did not want reprints, because he believed much of the beauty in his photos was due to darkroom work.

I think the main attraction and commercial appeal of Adams's work was in the natural beauty of his subjects.
01/18/2006 12:59:36 PM · #15
Originally posted by TooCool:

None of the great artists took a negative out of the camera and printed it as is. Ansel Adams wrote a large volume about the negative itself and another volume about the print... It seems to me that using basic editing to emulate the great photographers is like emulating the great chefs of the world using only a hot plate and a microwave...


I agree. This should be advanced editing. Almost all the photographers I could think of off hand that I would want to do a tribute to would require advanced editing. Despite that you are eliminating the ability to recreate the dark room effects of older film based photographers almost all popular artistic photographers today using digital post process.
01/18/2006 01:03:17 PM · #16
I tend to agree. Actually I think both basic challenges this week would benefit from the advanced editing rules.

I brought it up with SC. I think that it probably is too late, as the challenges have started, but it's worth talking about anyway.


01/18/2006 01:05:38 PM · #17
Originally posted by TooCool:

None of the great artists took a negative out of the camera and printed it as is. Ansel Adams wrote a large volume about the negative itself and another volume about the print... It seems to me that using basic editing to emulate the great photographers is like emulating the great chefs of the world using only a hot plate and a microwave...


i wouldn't say none thats a bit extreeme there are lots of very highly prased photogs. who are now know as the "greats" that didn't darkroom edit beyond the basic editing rules here at DPC.

now it all depends on your fav. photog. or whom u plan to pay the tribute to, as fars the editing that is nessary to achive an image of kin to there's i agree for there are some who would like tomymic all componts of the photogs. style and for some that means advanced editing.

_bran(just my 2 cents)do_
01/18/2006 01:08:57 PM · #18
Originally posted by KiwiPix:

Originally posted by TooCool:

None of the great artists took a negative out of the camera and printed it as is.


Uhhhh no ...

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Henri Cartier-Bresson. (August 22, 1908 August 3, 2004) was a French photographer. He was commonly considered the undisputed master of candid photography using the small-format 35mm rangefinder camera.

Cartier-Bresson was considered by most to be the father of photojournalism. He exclusively used the Leica 35 mm rangefinder cameras equipped with normal 50mm lenses or occasionally a telephoto for landscapes. He would have the camera's chrome body taped black to make it less conspicuous. He was one of the first photographers to shoot in the 35mm format and helped to develop the photojournalistic "street photography" style that influenced generations of photographers to come. Kodak's Plus-X and Tri-X films and the sharpness of Leica lenses allowed documentary photographers to work almost by stealth, to capture the events that surrounded them. Photographers were no longer bound by a huge press camera, or an intrusive flash gun and bulbs. These photographers operated with what Henri called "the velvet hand...the hawk's eye." Henri never photographed with a flash bulb. He said: "Impolite...like coming to a concert with a pistol in your hand." He believed in composing his photographs in his camera and not in the darkroom. He showcased this belief by having his photographs be printed at full-frame and completely free of any manipulation.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have forever been in awe of his works. Just reviewing for this post, they still take my breath away. No-tricks camera, no through-the-lens focusing. This was photography at its purest - and its best. Follow the links to his portraits, and his photojournalism.

Brett


are u going to mymic him also? or can we reach an agreement. lol as always 1 ofmy fav. photogs.
01/18/2006 05:19:35 PM · #19
Originally posted by rgo:

I suppose the quote from him:
"Once the picture is in the box, I'm not all that interested in what happens next. Hunters, after all, aren't cooks,"
suggests that he really didn't care about how his photos got printed.


This doens't mean that the Professional printers that were hired to print his stuff didn't care. I'm sure they did all in the power to make his stuff look as good as possible.
01/18/2006 05:34:20 PM · #20
ask and ye shall receive....
Looks like the rules are Advanced Editing now for both Tribute and Wildlife II.
01/18/2006 05:34:56 PM · #21
Just read this thread and want to congratulate you Brent Ward on a succesful outcome. Seems the rules have been changed and it is very cool to see that valid and thoughtful suggestions ARE noticed and taken seriously.
Great job to everyone... :)
01/18/2006 05:52:04 PM · #22
Originally posted by Qart:

Just read this thread and want to congratulate you Brent Ward on a succesful outcome. Seems the rules have been changed and it is very cool to see that valid and thoughtful suggestions ARE noticed and taken seriously.
Great job to everyone... :)


I wasn't even argueing for advance editing on these challenges. ;o)
01/18/2006 06:03:01 PM · #23
Originally posted by Brent_Ward:

Originally posted by Qart:

Just read this thread and want to congratulate you Brent Ward on a succesful outcome. Seems the rules have been changed and it is very cool to see that valid and thoughtful suggestions ARE noticed and taken seriously.
Great job to everyone... :)


I wasn't even argueing for advance editing on these challenges. ;o)


Didn't you get the memo? All arguments are to be attributed to you from now on :þ
01/18/2006 06:07:25 PM · #24
Originally posted by Megatherian:

Originally posted by Brent_Ward:

Originally posted by Qart:

Just read this thread and want to congratulate you Brent Ward on a succesful outcome. Seems the rules have been changed and it is very cool to see that valid and thoughtful suggestions ARE noticed and taken seriously.
Great job to everyone... :)


I wasn't even argueing for advance editing on these challenges. ;o)


Didn't you get the memo? All arguments are to be attributed to you from now on :þ


It's my bad boy status isn't it? :D
01/18/2006 07:25:27 PM · #25
Originally posted by Brent_Ward:

Originally posted by Megatherian:

Originally posted by Brent_Ward:

Originally posted by Qart:

Just read this thread and want to congratulate you Brent Ward on a succesful outcome. Seems the rules have been changed and it is very cool to see that valid and thoughtful suggestions ARE noticed and taken seriously.
Great job to everyone... :)


I wasn't even argueing for advance editing on these challenges. ;o)


Didn't you get the memo? All arguments are to be attributed to you from now on :þ


It's my bad boy status isn't it? :D


Man oh man... gotta start proof reading entries...
Pls delete the name Brent Ward from original... and perhaps all future posts and substitute with the very worthy name of Too Cool... Thank you... LOL
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