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01/16/2006 11:51:11 PM · #1
is finding the right place to stand.--Fred Picker

The camera don't count. The lens don't count. The post processing don't count. It's you the photographer that makes the photograph...

01/16/2006 11:53:33 PM · #2
Originally posted by TooCool:



The camera don't count. The lens don't count. The post processing don't count. It's you the photographer that makes the photograph...


I wish that was true. I could have saved a lot of time and money.
01/16/2006 11:56:46 PM · #3
Originally posted by jmsetzler:

Originally posted by TooCool:



The camera don't count. The lens don't count. The post processing don't count. It's you the photographer that makes the photograph...


I wish that was true. I could have saved a lot of time and money.

But that IS true!... Cameras don't take pictures, people do. You could have all the best equipment of the world, have spent thousands and thousands of money, but if you have no talent, it won't be worthy! And really, if you have the talent, you could make wonders with a 3 MP point and shoot digital camera...
01/17/2006 12:00:31 AM · #4
Originally posted by TooCool:

is finding the right place to stand.--Fred Picker

The camera don't count. The lens don't count. The post processing don't count. It's you the photographer that makes the photograph...


It's a nice sentiment but honestly it's a combination of all of those things (not necessarily divided equally).
01/17/2006 12:10:20 AM · #5
I would tend to agree with LaMerry on this one. I think the test is what would happen if you give 100 people the same camera equipment, took them to the same place, and let them have at it. (even taking knowledge of the camera out of the factor by shooting on auto)

You would certainly be able to tell who has the creative eye. In a perfect world we would all have the best equipment. However there are lots of rich folks with expensive DSLR cameras that many people here at DPC could outshoot in a second using their all in one cam. On the other hand if you already have the eye and the knowledge, the equipment can't do anything but make you better because you have more tools at your disposal. However that is what they are: tools.

getting off of soapbox now.

Ernie
01/17/2006 12:13:17 AM · #6
Originally posted by LaMerry:


But that IS true!... Cameras don't take pictures, people do. You could have all the best equipment of the world, have spent thousands and thousands of money, but if you have no talent, it won't be worthy! And really, if you have the talent, you could make wonders with a 3 MP point and shoot digital camera...


Talent definitely is the basis, but it's not the only thing you need.
01/17/2006 12:15:21 AM · #7
doesnt dpc have a lst of all the users and their cameras? You could go look at the cheaper cameras and see what their work is and comapre it to the more expensive cameras. Well that may not tell anything, its all sujective anyway.
01/17/2006 12:19:24 AM · #8
idk what subjective means
maybe it means what im about to say
but joey lawrence took some reall good pictures with the olympus D-600L
and they are done really well
i think better equipment jsut improves the picture
the ideas are where it is at though
01/17/2006 12:24:29 AM · #9
No one is saying talent isn't important - it is VERY important, but it's not the only thing in a REALLY GOOD picture.

Get a group of monkeys (let's say they are equally talented) and give them $10 Walmart cameras or D200's (assuming they can figure out how to operate them) and I can almost guarantee the D200's shots will be much better. Now put the camera in the hands of someone who has some idea what they are doing...
01/17/2006 12:27:01 AM · #10
Originally posted by Kivet:

doesnt dpc have a lst of all the users and their cameras? You could go look at the cheaper cameras and see what their work is and comapre it to the more expensive cameras. Well that may not tell anything, its all sujective anyway.


Or you could go the other way and see how the most expensive dslr available fares here at DPC.

bazz.
01/17/2006 12:30:24 AM · #11
Originally posted by TooCool:

is finding the right place to stand.--Fred Picker


Great quote! There is a lot to that, it's all about pointing the camera at the right place at the right time.

I think the gear does make life easier but in some cases is required regardless of the talent - long lenses, macros, flashes e.t.c. Funny, I was using my fathers old camera a while back just for kicks (he don't use it anymore either) - it's HARD work, manual everything and I was in bright sunlight most of the time.
01/17/2006 12:32:02 AM · #12
I asked Fred to to take a look. "A little stiff," he said, "but go ahead and make it." I did. Then, without a word he panned my tripod head 90 degrees to the right with his finger. He never even looked through the lens. "Take a look at that," he said. It was almost perfect and radically better than what I'd done. He just smiled. I made a minor adjustment and readied the exposure. The sun was behind a cloud. "Wait," said Fred. The sun began to peek out and the scene took on an airy glow. "Now," he said and I snapped. The proof is lovely but I've never printed that negative because it isn't mine. It's his since he literally put it in my camera. Now, years later, before I make an exposure, I think of Fred and turn around to look behind me to see if there's anything better in that direction. Sometimes there is, sometimes not but I know the habit is good for me. I can always turn the camera after I make the first exposure and make another.--Bruce Barlow
01/17/2006 12:39:02 AM · #13
Originally posted by TooCool:

is finding the right place to stand.--Fred Picker


I think the hardest part of finding the right place to stand is realising that the right place to stand is often where you are, not where you imaging you have to be.
01/17/2006 01:01:06 AM · #14
using a point and shoot for DPC, i can tell you that i got lot of comments about picture quality for my challenge enteries. Most of them say the same thing that i already know, but could not do anything about it since my P&S can not do it. So its not only the photographer, but the equipment also. I think its a combination of things equipment and photographer are two of them.

Originally posted by Kivet:

doesnt dpc have a lst of all the users and their cameras? You could go look at the cheaper cameras and see what their work is and comapre it to the more expensive cameras. Well that may not tell anything, its all sujective anyway.
01/17/2006 01:13:27 AM · #15
Originally posted by zxaar:

using a point and shoot for DPC, i can tell you that i got lot of comments about picture quality for my challenge enteries. Most of them say the same thing that i already know, but could not do anything about it since my P&S can not do it. So its not only the photographer, but the equipment also. I think its a combination of things equipment and photographer are two of them.


jjbeguin
01/17/2006 01:16:00 AM · #16
Originally posted by zxaar:

using a point and shoot for DPC, i can tell you that i got lot of comments about picture quality for my challenge enteries. Most of them say the same thing that i already know, but could not do anything about it since my P&S can not do it. So its not only the photographer, but the equipment also. I think its a combination of things equipment and photographer are two of them.


I know what you mean.
Sometimes, I wish I have faster lense.
I have a few times felt that F3.2 (largest for my camera) isn't fast enough for some pics that I'd like to take. And at other times, F7 isn't slow enough for long exposure shots :(
01/17/2006 01:17:20 AM · #17
Originally posted by Megatherian:

No one is saying talent isn't important - it is VERY important, but it's not the only thing in a REALLY GOOD picture

Not picking on you in particular Mega but that sentiment in general. Check out what true talent can do with a 1.3 megapixel "$100 camera" or this 1.2 Megapixel one.

I think that's a perfect illustration and vindication of Fred Picker's hypothesis

Brett

Message edited by author 2006-01-17 02:02:07.
01/17/2006 01:27:35 AM · #18
Photography is like any other artform. You need the talent, the vision, the timing and the right equipment for the job.

Sure you can get a great shot with a 1.3 MP camera, but what is it good for? IF your only goal is to get a great shot @ 640 pixels for a challenge then yes, use your camera phone ( which I find is more fun). But if you want more, than the equipment is gonna make the difference between an 11x14 and a 30x40 print.
01/17/2006 01:27:51 AM · #19
I think a lot of the post here are valid.
See we (humanís) wanted to go to the moon. It took the right equipment to get there and passion. And all of stood in wonder waiting to see the first up close pictures of the moon. But when we finally got there and seen them the best picture of all was when they turned around and took a picture of our own planet, earth.
-SDW

Message edited by author 2006-01-17 01:33:28.
01/17/2006 01:31:00 AM · #20
Originally posted by southern_exposure:

I think a lot of the post here are valid.
See we (humanís) wanted to go to the moon. It took the right equipment to get there and passion. And all of stood in wonder waiting to see the first up close pictures of the moon. But when we finally got there and seen the first pictures of the moon close up the best picture of all was when they turned around and took a picture of our own planet, earth.
-SDW


:D
01/17/2006 01:47:33 AM · #21
how about we put this discussion to the test... i propose a challenge where all the technical parameters are controlled, ( that made more sense in my head ). i'm not sure how we can go about doing that .. mmm maybe ... fixed ISO, fixed focal length .. maybe even f-stop limit say above f/11 or something, that way all the folks with narrow apperature lenses would not be out matched by fast ones... just a tallent challenge.. and if you have a point and shoot and a DSLR, use the point and shoot ..
01/17/2006 01:49:00 AM · #22
Going purely by fickle DPC voters, my highest rated shots were taken with cameras that were not my usual point and shoot. However, of all of the pictures I have ever taken with any camera, on a personal level I like the point and shoot shots much better, because I have to work a lot harder to get a picture that I enjoy. Whenever I borrow a Rebel or something from a friend, I find myself focusing less on the general aesthetics of a photograph and just doing things like...hey, wow, your 300mm lens lets me do some pretty neat things.

I suppose I'm just biased because I have a rather close attachment to my lovely 2mp Olympus.
01/17/2006 01:50:38 AM · #23
its not just resolution brent_ward ... there is DOF, macro, long focal length lenses, apperature and speed ... all those parameters can really stand in the way of taking a great shot that you see with your eye simply because your camera/lense capabilites are simply way under-exposed at its best...
01/17/2006 01:52:17 AM · #24
Originally posted by TooCool:

is finding the right place to stand.--Fred Picker

The camera don't count. The lens don't count. The post processing don't count. It's you the photographer that makes the photograph...

I disagree. Without a camera, you're not going to be making any photos, no matter where you're standing. I think what this Fred person was trying to express is that the skill of the photographer is often the most important factor in creating a good photo. Quite often, that is true, but not always. How many of the Hubble's better shots were dependent on where the photographer was standing?

01/17/2006 01:52:39 AM · #25
even he can not produce the shallow DOF with my camera that i wish for some of the composition. At some point the equipment will tell the photographer, this is what i can do, more that use your brain.
And it is not that i have not shot good pictures from my P&S(i wish i were memberi could have shown some in portfolio) its just that sometimes i can not produce what i think, due to some limitations.

Originally posted by TooCool:

Originally posted by zxaar:

using a point and shoot for DPC, i can tell you that i got lot of comments about picture quality for my challenge enteries. Most of them say the same thing that i already know, but could not do anything about it since my P&S can not do it. So its not only the photographer, but the equipment also. I think its a combination of things equipment and photographer are two of them.


jjbeguin
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