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01/09/2006 02:21:05 PM · #1
When someone puts their entry in a forum for critique purposes BEFORE a contest. Then they submit that entry?! I saw it, went back to check the thread, and the post with photo has now been edited out.

You gave up anonymity for the purposes of trying to find positives from others, and for that reason you will be getting a (1) vote from me for trying to get pre-critique on your entry. I think that although this may not be against "rules" here, it's a pretty LOW way to figure out what to enter and how it will do pre-challenge.

UGHHH...
Rose

Message edited by author 2006-01-09 14:21:38.
01/09/2006 02:24:41 PM · #2
Bad form? Yes. Easy Solution? Just don't vote on it. Vote the rest of the entries.
01/09/2006 02:28:10 PM · #3
It's not the first time it's happened. With fair frequency someone puts up a photo and some others say "DUDE! You should be entering this!" and they yank the photo. I think it's a little strange to get so worked up about it, but for sure if it bothers you that much don't vote on it. Why punish someone for this?

Robt.

Edit to add; I think it's remarkable that the OP is PRESUMING an ulterior motive by the photographer...

Message edited by author 2006-01-09 14:29:10.
01/09/2006 02:32:35 PM · #4
Rose, it happens sometimes where the photographer has no intentions of entering the photo, and then when they think about it, they want to enter it. In that case, they did not do it on purpose and had no malicious intent.
However, if the person does it on purpose, like 'I'm going to post this in the forums, get opinions and then enter it in the challenge' as an 'experiemnt' that's just plain uncalled for.
Not only is it a waste of the voters time, but a waste of SC time having to deal with the DQ requests.

Now, on that note, remember not to discuss specific entries in the current voting please.
(yes, I realize this person discussed it, but at that time, it was not in the current voting) I remember a thread from awhile back, but cannot find it where a SC member strictly states that this type of behavior is punishable. We are looking into it though.
Yes. It sucks.
01/09/2006 02:46:06 PM · #5
Originally posted by HBunch:

Rose, it happens sometimes where the photographer has no intentions of entering the photo, and then when they think about it, they want to enter it. In that case, they did not do it on purpose and had no malicious intent.
However, if the person does it on purpose, like 'I'm going to post this in the forums, get opinions and then enter it in the challenge' as an 'experiemnt' that's just plain uncalled for.
Not only is it a waste of the voters time, but a waste of SC time having to deal with the DQ requests.

Now, on that note, remember not to discuss specific entries in the current voting please.
(yes, I realize this person discussed it, but at that time, it was not in the current voting) I remember a thread from awhile back, but cannot find it where a SC member strictly states that this type of behavior is punishable. We are looking into it though.
Yes. It sucks.


Don't worry. I am not going to mention the photo by name, or by poster. I'm also not going to enter it for DQ. However, it stirred up a LOT of controversy on another thread. It seems to me that the photo must have been pulled and entered ONCE the posts were more in their favor, and in that I am going to have to assume that it was those posts that prompted the entry becoming reality.

I am not overly worked up about it, but I think it is a terrible way to enter a challenge when anonymity is supposed to be key.

A lot of us ponder over which photos are best. I started a thread about the "Challenge Blues" discussing this very delemma we all go through. Should I choose door one, two, or three kind of thing. A lot of us think and rethink our entries, spending hours taking shots and PP. Wondering which one may score higher. I don't think it is fair when someone just posts it to get a "preview" of what may come.

DrAchoo, I already voted on it unfortunately, before I realized when returning to that thread what happened. Now I WILL be changing my vote. There may not be rules specifically here against this, but I am not keen on this happening. I am sure my one little ol` vote won't amount to much, so it's of no matter I would think.

Rose

Message edited by author 2006-01-09 14:47:32.
01/09/2006 02:52:04 PM · #6
you obviously are overlyworked up about it ... since youa re raising a stink about it in the forums...
Take a vacation from DPC since we all seem to do things wrong, at least it seems like it to many of us.
This is to let you know officially that any thread youpost to gets put on ignore by me. So I dotn get so upset by your postings. SC knows that I do that as I've informed them of such... I've jsutnot informed you yet about it ... and am now. This thread goes on ignore now.

Originally posted by Rose8699:

Originally posted by HBunch:

Rose, it happens sometimes where the photographer has no intentions of entering the photo, and then when they think about it, they want to enter it. In that case, they did not do it on purpose and had no malicious intent.
However, if the person does it on purpose, like 'I'm going to post this in the forums, get opinions and then enter it in the challenge' as an 'experiemnt' that's just plain uncalled for.
Not only is it a waste of the voters time, but a waste of SC time having to deal with the DQ requests.

Now, on that note, remember not to discuss specific entries in the current voting please.
(yes, I realize this person discussed it, but at that time, it was not in the current voting) I remember a thread from awhile back, but cannot find it where a SC member strictly states that this type of behavior is punishable. We are looking into it though.
Yes. It sucks.


Don't worry. I am not going to mention the photo by name, or by poster. I'm also not going to enter it for DQ. However, it stirred up a LOT of controversy on another thread. It seems to me that the photo must have been pulled and entered ONCE the posts were more in their favor, and in that I am going to have to assume that it was those posts that prompted the entry becoming reality.

I am not overly worked up about it, but I think it is a terrible way to enter a challenge when anonymity is supposed to be key.

A lot of us ponder over which photos are best. I started a thread about the "Challenge Blues" discussing this very delemma we all go through. Should I choose door one, two, or three kind of thing. A lot of us think and rethink our entries, spending hours taking shots and PP. Wondering which one may score higher. I don't think it is fair when someone just posts it to get a "preview" of what may come.

DrAchoo, I already voted on it unfortunately, before I realized when returning to that thread what happened. Now I WILL be changing my vote. There may not be rules specifically here against this, but I am not keen on this happening. I am sure my one little ol` vote won't amount to much, so it's of no matter I would think.

Rose
01/09/2006 02:54:37 PM · #7
Originally posted by Rose8699:

A lot of us ponder over which photos are best. I started a thread about the "Challenge Blues" discussing this very delemma we all go through. Should I choose door one, two, or three kind of thing. A lot of us think and rethink our entries, spending hours taking shots and PP. Wondering which one may score higher. I don't think it is fair when someone just posts it to get a "preview" of what may come.

Did you speak to the person who posted the shot? - Do you know first hand what their reasons were?

Also, do you think it's fair that you have access to a professional photographer to get pre-challenge opinions from? - What's the difference?
01/09/2006 02:55:15 PM · #8
Originally posted by Di:

you obviously are overlyworked up about it ... since youa re raising a stink about it in the forums...
Take a vacation from DPC since we all seem to do things wrong, at least it seems like it to many of us.
This is to let you know officially that any thread youpost to gets put on ignore by me. So I dotn get so upset by your postings. SC knows that I do that as I've informed them of such... I've jsutnot informed you yet about it ... and am now. This thread goes on ignore now.

Originally posted by Rose8699:

Originally posted by HBunch:

Rose, it happens sometimes where the photographer has no intentions of entering the photo, and then when they think about it, they want to enter it. In that case, they did not do it on purpose and had no malicious intent.
However, if the person does it on purpose, like 'I'm going to post this in the forums, get opinions and then enter it in the challenge' as an 'experiemnt' that's just plain uncalled for.
Not only is it a waste of the voters time, but a waste of SC time having to deal with the DQ requests.

Now, on that note, remember not to discuss specific entries in the current voting please.
(yes, I realize this person discussed it, but at that time, it was not in the current voting) I remember a thread from awhile back, but cannot find it where a SC member strictly states that this type of behavior is punishable. We are looking into it though.
Yes. It sucks.


Don't worry. I am not going to mention the photo by name, or by poster. I'm also not going to enter it for DQ. However, it stirred up a LOT of controversy on another thread. It seems to me that the photo must have been pulled and entered ONCE the posts were more in their favor, and in that I am going to have to assume that it was those posts that prompted the entry becoming reality.

I am not overly worked up about it, but I think it is a terrible way to enter a challenge when anonymity is supposed to be key.

A lot of us ponder over which photos are best. I started a thread about the "Challenge Blues" discussing this very delemma we all go through. Should I choose door one, two, or three kind of thing. A lot of us think and rethink our entries, spending hours taking shots and PP. Wondering which one may score higher. I don't think it is fair when someone just posts it to get a "preview" of what may come.

DrAchoo, I already voted on it unfortunately, before I realized when returning to that thread what happened. Now I WILL be changing my vote. There may not be rules specifically here against this, but I am not keen on this happening. I am sure my one little ol` vote won't amount to much, so it's of no matter I would think.

Rose


Sweety, I think you have mistaken me for someone who cares.

Or should I have just replied with an "Oh my lord" or how about an "OMG" like you usually do with no other intelligent input? LMAO...

See ya! Can't say I will miss ya!
Rose
01/09/2006 03:00:35 PM · #9
Originally posted by jhonan:

Originally posted by Rose8699:

A lot of us ponder over which photos are best. I started a thread about the "Challenge Blues" discussing this very delemma we all go through. Should I choose door one, two, or three kind of thing. A lot of us think and rethink our entries, spending hours taking shots and PP. Wondering which one may score higher. I don't think it is fair when someone just posts it to get a "preview" of what may come.

Did you speak to the person who posted the shot? - Do you know first hand what their reasons were?

Also, do you think it's fair that you have access to a professional photographer to get pre-challenge opinions from? - What's the difference?


I have no need to contact the person in question. It is and was quite obvious.

Yes, what I do outside of DPC is none of your concern. I have a very nice pro photographer buddy of mine that I can use whenever I see fit. Why? Because he is a FAMILY member of mine. I refer to him as a buddy because that is a pet name I have for him. LOL.....IN that regard, it is NONE of your business who I may use. I may also use my husband, my cousins, and my brother, who is a technical equipment genius from computers to cameras. BUT, I do NOT post my pre-challenge photos on DPC to get feedback from actual "VOTERS" before a competition. Those I consult are outside of DPC totally, and are not voting in the competitions, nor are they members, or even in some cases, they don't even know of this site. So your argument is wasted, but I have no doubt you will find another.

Rose


01/09/2006 03:00:48 PM · #10
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

It's not the first time it's happened. With fair frequency someone puts up a photo and some others say "DUDE! You should be entering this!" and they yank the photo. I think it's a little strange to get so worked up about it, but for sure if it bothers you that much don't vote on it. Why punish someone for this?

Robt.

Edit to add; I think it's remarkable that the OP is PRESUMING an ulterior motive by the photographer...


I believe I know of the shot you are talking about and if anything it was the voters (other people posting in the thread) that encouraged the person to enter the photo. I do not believe there was any malicious intent.

There does seem to be malicious intent on your part though by opening a thread about it. If you were speaking of this type of problem in general it would be one thing but you are not, you're talking about a specific photo and it seems you are trying to rally up support to vote it down. Just because you don't specifically name the photographer and the thread doesn't mean you aren't breaking the rules yourself by discussing an entry during an open challenge. It wouldn't take much work to find out which photo you are refering to.
01/09/2006 03:11:14 PM · #11
Originally posted by Megatherian:

[quote=Bear_Music] It's not the first time it's happened. With fair frequency someone puts up a photo and some others say "DUDE! You should be entering this!" and they yank the photo. I think it's a little strange to get so worked up about it, but for sure if it bothers you that much don't vote on it. Why punish someone for this?

Robt.

Edit to add; I think it's remarkable that the OP is PRESUMING an ulterior motive by the photographer...


I believe I know of the shot you are talking about and if anything it was the voters (other people posting in the thread) that encouraged the person to enter the photo. I do not believe there was any malicious intent.

AND this is exactly my complaint. People here, or at least I do, pride myself on anonymity. By encouraging a poster to place an entry into a challenge by them showing it to "voters" PRE-challenge means you will also be voting the photo UP knowing who it is, and so will others that encouraged them. And you think this is ok? LOL....YET, you think me voting it down because they did this is wrong? I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

There does seem to be malicious intent on your part though by opening a thread about it. If you were speaking of this type of problem in general it would be one thing but you are not, you're talking about a specific photo and it seems you are trying to rally up support to vote it down. Just because you don't specifically name the photographer and the thread doesn't mean you aren't breaking the rules yourself by discussing an entry during an open challenge. It wouldn't take much work to find out which photo you are refering to.

Unless I mention that photo by name and the poster by name and actually describe it, I AM talking in general. In "general" about a specific entry in which I have given no specific information on. This is NOT against the rules. I can't see how it would be that easy to find with little to no information to go on, but if you want to make it your mission to, go ahead. You seem to think it makes little difference anyway right? If you find it, then you can encourage others to vote it up! I am not encouraging others to vote it down. I just said I am against this sort of thing. If that person wants to consult outside of DPC forums and its voters, then that is another story, but it shouldn't be done within. Period.

Rose


01/09/2006 03:17:09 PM · #12
Look, Rose:

You "recognize" an image that is no longer visible in the threads, and because you recognize it you feel it deserves a poor score. There are going to be hundreds of votes, and very few of the voters will have ever seen the original thread. It makes no point to tell us that those who encouraged the shooter to submit it are voting it "unfairly", because we DO think it is a good shot. YOU, on the other hand, are willing to vote it down not on photographic merit but on what you perceive as a breach of etiquette.

I'm sure glad you';re not the boss of me, 'cuz I wouldn't last a week under your thumb.

R.
01/09/2006 03:21:29 PM · #13
Originally posted by Rose8699:

Originally posted by Megatherian:

[quote=Bear_Music] It's not the first time it's happened. With fair frequency someone puts up a photo and some others say "DUDE! You should be entering this!" and they yank the photo. I think it's a little strange to get so worked up about it, but for sure if it bothers you that much don't vote on it. Why punish someone for this?

Robt.

Edit to add; I think it's remarkable that the OP is PRESUMING an ulterior motive by the photographer...


I believe I know of the shot you are talking about and if anything it was the voters (other people posting in the thread) that encouraged the person to enter the photo. I do not believe there was any malicious intent.

AND this is exactly my complaint. People here, or at least I do, pride myself on anonymity. By encouraging a poster to place an entry into a challenge by them showing it to "voters" PRE-challenge means you will also be voting the photo UP knowing who it is, and so will others that encouraged them. And you think this is ok? LOL....YET, you think me voting it down because they did this is wrong? I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

There does seem to be malicious intent on your part though by opening a thread about it. If you were speaking of this type of problem in general it would be one thing but you are not, you're talking about a specific photo and it seems you are trying to rally up support to vote it down. Just because you don't specifically name the photographer and the thread doesn't mean you aren't breaking the rules yourself by discussing an entry during an open challenge. It wouldn't take much work to find out which photo you are refering to.

Unless I mention that photo by name and the poster by name and actually describe it, I AM talking in general. In "general" about a specific entry in which I have given no specific information on. This is NOT against the rules. I can't see how it would be that easy to find with little to no information to go on, but if you want to make it your mission to, go ahead. You seem to think it makes little difference anyway right? If you find it, then you can encourage others to vote it up! I am not encouraging others to vote it down. I just said I am against this sort of thing. If that person wants to consult outside of DPC forums and its voters, then that is another story, but it shouldn't be done within. Period.

Rose


This is a photography contest, not a contest to see who can remain the most anonymous.

Who ever said I would vote the image up? Why do you assume everyone will vote higher just because they know who shot it? The only person here who said they would change their vote was you. I'll vote on the image based upon it's technical and creative merits regardless of who shot it. But hey that's just me because of my values.

Message edited by author 2006-01-09 15:23:00.
01/09/2006 03:22:41 PM · #14
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Look, Rose:

You "recognize" an image that is no longer visible in the threads, and because you recognize it you feel it deserves a poor score. There are going to be hundreds of votes, and very few of the voters will have ever seen the original thread. It makes no point to tell us that those who encouraged the shooter to submit it are voting it "unfairly", because we DO think it is a good shot. YOU, on the other hand, are willing to vote it down not on photographic merit but on what you perceive as a breach of etiquette.

I'm sure glad you';re not the boss of me, 'cuz I wouldn't last a week under your thumb.

R.


No. What I am saying is I shouldn't be accused of swaying votes in this thread when those who encouraged the poster to enter their photo also did the same swaying THROUGH the positive "public" encouragement they gave them.

The one vote I 'gave' will make little difference. I found that I had voted it low anyway. That is neither here nor there. What I am saying is that NO ONE should be submitting a photo to a public thread to get pre-challenge critique. It sucks. It is unethical. And it isn't fair to those that struggle to decide which photo to enter as they keep their morals in tact during, before, and after the voting process.

Rose

Message edited by author 2006-01-09 15:23:24.
01/09/2006 03:25:08 PM · #15
Point me to the spot where it says challenge entries must remain as anonymous as possible. Then let's discuss this.
01/09/2006 03:26:29 PM · #16
Originally posted by Rose8699:

...keep their morals in tact during, before, and after the voting process. ...


How do you feel about posting 'Outtakes' from a challenge while the challenge is still be voted on? Some find that unethical also...
01/09/2006 03:26:58 PM · #17
(That's a very thin line you're walkin with the post Mega - as far as the TOS. Not that I disagree...but...

*mumbles something about sinking to a level and leaves*)

post no longer makes sense - thx Manic! :p

Message edited by author 2006-01-09 15:29:16.
01/09/2006 03:28:08 PM · #18
Just a reminder that even though this is a Rant thread, you shouldn't descend to the level of personal attacks...
01/09/2006 03:29:21 PM · #19
We ALL have different values AND morals, Megatherian. Placing a photo in a challenge knowing it was encouraged to do so openly and publicly by "voters" is against my moral beliefs and my values. I prefer to enter a challenge in a more dignified manner then knowing I have at least 5 or 6 high votes coming "UNLESS the person was lied to just to have them enter a bad photo to help those that feel their entries are superior"..LOL, which would be immmoral on the part of the encourager.

If I win a ribbon, I don't want it to be based on knowing who knows what prechallenge about my entry. And I would bet dime to dollar that if it were "I" who had done this, there wouldn't be the same supportive attitude by many.

Rose
01/09/2006 03:33:03 PM · #20
Question for an SC - how does this thread not influence the votes on a specific photo? We all (regular forum readers) know what she's talking about. For better or worse, that affects the score. It makes me want to go change my vote on the photo to 'make up' for her lowering her score. I didn't change the vote, but doubtless others have - up or down. Isn't THAT what's against the rules and "may result in having your account suspended"?

Enforce ALL the rules - not just time stamp and major element rules.

Please.
01/09/2006 03:33:32 PM · #21
Originally posted by mavrik:

Point me to the spot where it says challenge entries must remain as anonymous as possible. Then let's discuss this.


Anonymity is really not so much the issue as having others say to you "the photo is great! I would enter it!". This is what is the problem to me. By saying that, you are basically saying that you would enter the same photo. Why? Because you think it would score well. Hence the entry goes in, and those who said that to the person who entered it have pretty much given them the confidence that they will receive some initially good scores.

How it fairs in the end is always anyones game. But nontheless, to me it is unethical and should not be allowed. Just MY opinion.

Rose
01/09/2006 03:35:18 PM · #22
I recognized this image in the mother challenge by Coley immediately...

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/427/thumb/274417.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/427/thumb/274417.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

He has pictures of his family all over his portfolio - should I vote him down and say he is immoral and unethical because he used models that could be easily recognized by anyone familiar with his work?

Has he not earned his past ribbons?

Message edited by author 2006-01-09 15:36:22.
01/09/2006 03:36:56 PM · #23
I agree with Rose. I think it's a cheesy thing to do. Once a photo has been posted to the forums, it should never be entered into an 'anonymous' challenge.
01/09/2006 03:38:21 PM · #24
Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by Rose8699:

...keep their morals in tact during, before, and after the voting process. ...


How do you feel about posting 'Outtakes' from a challenge while the challenge is still be voted on? Some find that unethical also...


I know you are saying this because I posted my outtake for burst of color. I will explain that, and then lets see if you actually read this.

In the past I have never posted an outtake, to my knowledge, not even after a challenge. When I saw that another poster did do an outtake of their burst of color and posted it, I waited to see if there was any flack about it before I did my own. Since there was none, I went ahead and posted mine. Notice I also stated it was not even close to my original entry.

So, did I post my ACTUAL entry in order to get critique on it before I entered it into the challenge? LOL...no. The challenge was already underway. In that regard, I have no problem with those who want to post their outtakes after a challenge has gone in, and post challenge results, or even afterwards.

Rose


01/09/2006 03:42:07 PM · #25
Originally posted by Rose8699:

And I would bet dime to dollar that if it were "I" who had done this, there wouldn't be the same supportive attitude by many.


Actually one of your good buddies posted his image in the thread WHILE voting was going on and you supported him. Why the reversal? Need I find the post?

note - I don't like when people post their images that are currently in voting, I'm not totally at peace with people posting, getting feedback and then submitting, but ya know what - if you really think it's 100% anonymous except for that guy's forum post, you need to think HARD again. It's not.


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