DPChallenge: A Digital Photography Contest You are not logged in. (log in or register
 

DPChallenge Forums >> Challenge Results >> Stunning Photos Scoring 1 - Why?
Pages:  
Showing posts 1 - 25 of 105, (reverse)
AuthorThread
01/06/2006 11:30:32 AM · #1
I've noticed from time to time that even blue ribbon, stunning photo's often times have a 1 or several 2's. Now I realize that everyone has differences of oppinions but come on. Some of these shots are so incredible there is NO WAY someone can think it is a 1 or 2 unless they are just flat out being a jerk. Then it dawned on me. Is it possible that some really competitive people, those competing for a ribbon, are going out and finding the other great photo's in the contest and giving them a 1 just for the hopes of getting that measily 1/1000th of a percentage point that might be the difference between a blue or a red ribbon? I'd hate to think that this happens but for the first time I have a photo scoring really high and for a moment entertained the idea that I could get a 4th place (honorable mention) then thought, if I go handing out 9's and 10's to my competitors I'm only hurting my chances of getting an honorable mention. Now don't get me wrong, I have personal integrety and I will NOT resort to that level and have already given out an 8 and a 9 (nothing struck me as a 10 yet). Still, I wonder if this is happening.
01/06/2006 11:35:21 AM · #2
Ya, There has been alot of talk of this, and I'm sure it does happen in some cases. I'd like to think it doesn't happen in our member challenges (and the open, don't get me wrong,) but with the Hundreds of members and registered users, it's bound to happen from time to time. All we can do is vote according to the actual photo, and not worry about what someone else is doing to us =)
01/06/2006 11:35:50 AM · #3
Imagine how you would feel if you gave out 1's to win..
In other words anyone doing this is only hurting themselves...
Other than those few people (and I doubt it is anyone doing well, probably just a few bitter, pathetic people), everyone is in the same boat, so don't worry about it..
01/06/2006 11:52:35 AM · #4
Originally posted by bucket:

Imagine how you would feel if you gave out 1's to win..
In other words anyone doing this is only hurting themselves...
Other than those few people (and I doubt it is anyone doing well, probably just a few bitter, pathetic people), everyone is in the same boat, so don't worry about it..


Some people will do anything to win whether it be on DPC or in real life. Therefor to think that they would "feel" anything is a bit misguided. Take for example the Confidence Artist AKA Conman. I doubt seriously he/she cries in their pillow at night about the money they bilked out of someone that day. I also doubt that anyone who voted down a good imagee to help their own in order to win here has any sympathy/empathy for others.

My 2 cents.
01/06/2006 12:08:50 PM · #5
Originally posted by _eug:

Originally posted by bucket:

Imagine how you would feel if you gave out 1's to win..
In other words anyone doing this is only hurting themselves...
Other than those few people (and I doubt it is anyone doing well, probably just a few bitter, pathetic people), everyone is in the same boat, so don't worry about it..


Some people will do anything to win whether it be on DPC or in real life. Therefor to think that they would "feel" anything is a bit misguided. Take for example the Confidence Artist AKA Conman. I doubt seriously he/she cries in their pillow at night about the money they bilked out of someone that day. I also doubt that anyone who voted down a good imagee to help their own in order to win here has any sympathy/empathy for others.

My 2 cents.


hey they might not feel for others, but they would be stuck wondering if they could have won without "cheating"..even if they manage to justify their actions, I don't believe it wouldn't taint their own score..
01/06/2006 12:13:33 PM · #6
Solution: Vote for the challenge you did not enter.
01/06/2006 12:24:26 PM · #7
On the bright side of things, their pathetic efforts have little effect overall in the long run and yes, they do spread their misery evenly.

General "low voters" bum me out the most. If their same keen, hyper-critical eyes were pointed back towards themselves by all the voters collectively, their own averages would most likely drop like stones.
(was that clear?) It's taking more than giving...

We need to weed them out...like the villagers in Frankenstein, with pitch-forks, torches and sickles...
(kidding, of course)

Message edited by author 2006-01-06 12:31:12.
01/06/2006 12:26:19 PM · #8
Originally posted by bucket:

Originally posted by _eug:

Some people will do anything to win whether it be on DPC or in real life. Therefor to think that they would "feel" anything is a bit misguided. Take for example the Confidence Artist AKA Conman. I doubt seriously he/she cries in their pillow at night about the money they bilked out of someone that day. I also doubt that anyone who voted down a good imagee to help their own in order to win here has any sympathy/empathy for others.

My 2 cents.


hey they might not feel for others, but they would be stuck wondering if they could have won without "cheating"..even if they manage to justify their actions, I don't believe it wouldn't taint their own score..


Again, IMO I don't think it will even cross their minds. It's called amoralism.

a·mor·al Pronunciation Key (a-môrl, a-mr-)
adj.
1. Not admitting of moral distinctions or judgments; neither moral nor immoral.
2. Lacking moral sensibility; not caring about right and wrong.

It's not that they don't know the difference between right and wrong. THEY DON'T CARE if it's right or wrong. They did what was neccessary to reach the goal.

Edit: It's the result that matters and not the means.

Message edited by author 2006-01-06 12:28:28.
01/06/2006 12:26:57 PM · #9
This exact thing happened for the challenge "Pet Portrait"
161996.jpg
I recieved four 1 votes.
I noticed that my score dropped like 6 minutes before it ended.
My assumption is someone went through in hopes to downgrade mine to try to bump theirs up.
Its a shame but what could we do about it.
01/06/2006 01:01:50 PM · #10
Originally posted by _eug:

Originally posted by bucket:

Originally posted by _eug:

Some people will do anything to win whether it be on DPC or in real life. Therefor to think that they would "feel" anything is a bit misguided. Take for example the Confidence Artist AKA Conman. I doubt seriously he/she cries in their pillow at night about the money they bilked out of someone that day. I also doubt that anyone who voted down a good imagee to help their own in order to win here has any sympathy/empathy for others.

My 2 cents.


hey they might not feel for others, but they would be stuck wondering if they could have won without "cheating"..even if they manage to justify their actions, I don't believe it wouldn't taint their own score..


Again, IMO I don't think it will even cross their minds. It's called amoralism.

a·mor·al Pronunciation Key (a-môrl, a-mr-)
adj.
1. Not admitting of moral distinctions or judgments; neither moral nor immoral.
2. Lacking moral sensibility; not caring about right and wrong.

It's not that they don't know the difference between right and wrong. THEY DON'T CARE if it's right or wrong. They did what was neccessary to reach the goal.

Edit: It's the result that matters and not the means.


still I pity them...this amorality only exists on the conscious level..it doesn't sound like the road to happiness ..now you could argue they aren't interested in happiness, but only in obtaining things..no argument, but I would rather be me..
and unless they are stupid they still are aware of HOW they won, and on this site you win nothing but a virtual ribbon...
so to those who cheat to win a virtual ribbon..well go ahead, it simply is not going to affect me, but I do suggest getting help..
01/06/2006 01:09:56 PM · #11
Originally posted by ChasSourek:

This exact thing happened for the challenge "Pet Portrait"
161996.jpg
I recieved four 1 votes.
I noticed that my score dropped like 6 minutes before it ended.
My assumption is someone went through in hopes to downgrade mine to try to bump theirs up.
Its a shame but what could we do about it.


What's really interesting is that you didn't get any 2's. That does support the theory that the 1's were malicious. I am sorry to say I only gave it a 6. Would bump it up now if I could. Nice photo!!
01/06/2006 01:55:01 PM · #12
This is an old grind that will never go away. The troller is infact a property of the vested interest, that is when you vote on a challenge and you also have a horse in the race. Believe me, this topic has vexed me very much and after doing a heavy amount of challenges I have a word of advise for them but I know they will not listen: grow up!

There are different types of motives but let us examine two of them. The majority of these offenses would appear to come from an individual who is not a top photographer. This fellow does not have the ability to estimate the virtues of an image. That is, they have no idea which images will really finish in the top 5. His own image, and they know it, is not a top image. They scan the images and vote down images which to them are headed for paydirt. This causes a minor havoc because it skews the end result. That is, many images are going head to head with the general voters and then comes the troll to upset the apllecart.

Now, a top photographer has little to fear if he spent the time and technique to deliver an image which to him/her is the best they can deliver for a particular challenge. They simply forget about and vote just like the rest of us, because either his image captured the crowd or it did not. Nothing he/she can now do is going to change his standing. He applies his talent to the next. Culprits are everywhere and the heat of competition may temp some, but the better the photographer, the more proud he is and to troll would mean to win by manipulation rather than on merit.

Now, I always look at the stats of anyone I come in contact with, or people making posts. I always compare average votes received versus average vote given and this tells you a lot. Those with an under 5 average of votes given need to improve. Worse are those with under 5 average who have received an average of 5.2, 5.3 or upwards.

You will also hear stories of how the evaluation of images is solely a subjective thing. While this is true, this is a learning site and when one image has a pleasant subject, good composition, great color and overall good technique there is no reason to give such an image a one or a two.

The conclusion may even surprise the trollers. They do not understand stats. They never accomplish their aim, they only have a minor effect on the outcome and it is always contrary to what they aimed for. In challenges where votes exceeds 300 are the ones they fear the most because the bigger the vote count the less effect they have.

Solution: always get out and vote. Every additional vote renders them insignificant.

01/06/2006 02:05:43 PM · #13
all we can hope is for other peoples integrity ... and ouselfs too :-)
we are doing this in a real world and we all know what kind of wolrd is it and what kind of people are hanging around us every freakin' day ... right ?
so ... smile and move on. the life is outside of boundaries as we know them, trust me ...
01/06/2006 02:50:00 PM · #14
Originally posted by graphicfunk:

Solution: always get out and vote. Every additional vote renders them insignificant.


Here,here! Great advice. I vote on every image in the Open Exclusive Challenges (Can't compete or vote in the Member Challenges). All we can do is make sure that their vote is a small portion of the total.
01/06/2006 02:50:12 PM · #15
I suggest that if there were an overabundant amount of 1's or 2's in the top ten by the same individual, that all of their votes could be disqualified. This could be done immediately after the vote is tallied, by the admin.
Just thought.
01/06/2006 03:22:19 PM · #16
Originally posted by autool:

I suggest that if there were an overabundant amount of 1's or 2's in the top ten by the same individual, that all of their votes could be disqualified. This could be done immediately after the vote is tallied, by the admin.
Just thought.

It's a very good thought. In fact they don't actually have to do it, just announce that they will be checking 1's scored on top 10 finishers.

The thread of discovery and loss of membership would do the trick

Brett
01/06/2006 03:36:41 PM · #17
I have a suggestion which is more "positive".

Assign KARMA ratings to users, based on their votes. The more closely the score matches the final outcome of a contest, the more Karma points they get. You would also get Karma points for critiques, but this would be based on the number of words in the critique (so atta-boy's don't necessarily increase Karma as much).

The upside: people might start to nurture their Karma. They would want to try and pick the winning shots. Voting 1's, 2's or 3's on winning entries would decrease Karma. So that would be discouraged. Since Karma numbers would be public, those developing "bad karma" would be obvious. And eventually, you could even go further and give more weight to those voters with more Karma.

There are downsides. Basically, it encourages thinking in the box, with the masses.

But assuming the Karma management system is developed right, and other things can be used to increase your Karma, I think it would be a positive development for the site.

01/06/2006 04:02:08 PM · #18
I usually don't give anything lower than a 4, other than size and technical parts of a photo and that would be a 3. But here lately I given more 1's than ever. Its seems lately there is no respect for the challenge/challenge description, this has been a hot issue lately. Thatís where this game starts. Example phobia, if you didnít have the phobia name or in fear of in your title, you got a 1. I don't care how great the shot is, another example; 4:00 to 5:00 any shot that wasn't taken a this time would had gotten a 1, but since this is a world wide site I gave benefit of the doubt and what takes a ribbon a photo which should be disqualified, imo. Sorry some people won't like my post. Folks say this is what photography is all about, yes if all challenges where free studies I'd agree, its not, its about taking the challenge and description and coming up with a great shot with in those binderies. The most recent shot of the Tiger dnmc thread, great capture very well done work, if the title didn't help with tying the shot to the challenge/description I'd gave that a 1. I like out of the box thinking, just the shot should tell us your within the spirit of the challenge description.......thoughts from an average person/photographer which loves this site.

01/06/2006 04:03:49 PM · #19
Originally posted by nshapiro:

I have a suggestion ... Assign KARMA ratings to users ...

Oh, dear! Two problems with that:
First, my highest choices seldom include any ribbon winners, and are sometimes not even in the top 50. And conversely, my average score for images that did win ribbons is probably around 5.5 or so. There are exceptions, but you are talking about averages in your suggestion. (I'm not mad, by the way, but I've come to realise that I'm just not looking for the same things as the majority of voters).
Second, by tiny increments, the inevitable outcome of your scheme would be that all DPC voters would eventually adapt to think the same (well, those that were left). Natural selection.
01/06/2006 04:15:09 PM · #20
Originally posted by graphicfunk:

................Now, I always look at the stats of anyone I come in contact with, or people making posts. I always compare average votes received versus average vote given and this tells you a lot. Those with an under 5 average of votes given need to improve. Worse are those with under 5 average who have received an average of 5.2, 5.3 or upwards............


The best way to dicover the trolls!
01/06/2006 04:40:57 PM · #21
I am not really concern about trolls and score I am more concern about how many are going in wrong direction whit classics photographic and what it is about by taking picture of object in close distant whit dark background and getting ribbon for it for me a really long distant from photographic, look at best photographer in he world what are they doing and compear whit what is here, are we on right track ?
01/06/2006 04:47:30 PM · #22
Interesting....You should start a thread on this subject. I've gotten to know a few people that don't see photography on this site as I do......

Originally posted by IceRock:

I am not really concern about trolls and score I am more concern about how many are going in wrong direction whit classics photographic and what it is about by taking picture of object in close distant whit dark background and getting ribbon for it for me a really long distant from photographic, look at best photographer in he world what are they doing and compear whit what is here, are we on right track ?
text
01/06/2006 04:51:46 PM · #23
how about statistical way of doing that to remove 5 or 10% of lowest and highest scores and then show the numbers ?

/me hides in the dark :-)
01/06/2006 04:54:19 PM · #24
Neil, your Karma idea is interesting in a way, but not entirely fair.
In every single challenge, there are a number of photos that ended up with a very different score to what I gave it - and that works in both directions.

Even whilst voting as fairly as possible, we DO all have different ideas and preferences and should not be punished for liking an "underdog", or disliking something that had general mass-appeal.
01/06/2006 05:54:21 PM · #25
Originally posted by nshapiro:

I have a suggestion which is more "positive".

Assign KARMA ratings to users, based on their votes. The more closely the score matches the final outcome of a contest, the more Karma points they get. You would also get Karma points for critiques, but this would be based on the number of words in the critique (so atta-boy's don't necessarily increase Karma as much).

The upside: people might start to nurture their Karma. They would want to try and pick the winning shots. Voting 1's, 2's or 3's on winning entries would decrease Karma. So that would be discouraged. Since Karma numbers would be public, those developing "bad karma" would be obvious. And eventually, you could even go further and give more weight to those voters with more Karma.

There are downsides. Basically, it encourages thinking in the box, with the masses.

But assuming the Karma management system is developed right, and other things can be used to increase your Karma, I think it would be a positive development for the site.


I don't think you get good Karma by doing something because you expect something in return...
Pages:  
Current Server Time: 02/16/2019 04:52:42 AM

Please log in or register to post to the forums.


Home - Challenges - Community - League - Photos - Cameras - Lenses - Learn - Prints! - Help - Terms of Use - Privacy - Top ^
DPChallenge, and website content and design, Copyright © 2001-2019 Challenging Technologies, LLC.
All digital photo copyrights belong to the photographers and may not be used without permission.
Proudly hosted by Sargasso Networks. Current Server Time: 02/16/2019 04:52:42 AM EST.