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01/04/2006 06:57:14 PM · #1 |
My good friend and mentor has just proved to whoever is willing to listen that you do not have to meet a challenge to score a 6+. I love him for exposing the fickle nature of the human opinion, the inherent inconsistencies we all suffer from.
Well done Bobby, surely this is the best tiger pic I have ever seen, whether it met the challenge or not. The tribe has spoken.;-)
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01/04/2006 07:02:16 PM · #2 |
It is a really pretty shot... but... DNMC.
I probably would have given it a 4. This one's technical excellence promotes it a little in my opinion. But an 8? (or even a 6 or 7?) No way.
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01/04/2006 07:05:04 PM · #3 |
| Makes a "Challenge Title" a farcial concept in my humble opinion. |
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01/04/2006 07:05:59 PM · #4 |
I gave a 7, and felt like it was a stretch for the challenge. Great image, and I think deserving of a high placement.
Seems as thought the tiger listened to the prior days weather forcast. They are full of OOPs all the time where I live. :) |
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01/04/2006 07:06:10 PM · #5 |
Personally I find it hard to give a very low score to a really good photo unless the challenge requirements are really specific - like 'in the garden' where it said no flowers.
I was really undecided with this one, but gave it a 7. In the right challenge I would probably have given it more.
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01/04/2006 07:15:28 PM · #6 |
I agree that it is a stunning photo, but I am quite upset that some people enter with total and deliberate disregard to the challenge, knowing full well they are shoehorning it in.
That photo could have been saved for the "Best of 2005" or simply shared and offered as print, instead of making a mockery of everybody who actually WORKED on getting a photo for a CHALLENGE.
Seeing such gloating about it afterwards makes it even worse.
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01/04/2006 07:16:27 PM · #7 |
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01/04/2006 07:20:05 PM · #8 |
I'm with you Beetle!
The only way this will EVER be solved is when DNMC is made a DQ offence. I think it's got to the point where that may have to happen.
It's a horrid concept to enforce because the meeting challenge is pretty subjective, but still if it was very liberally applied, there are 18 voters for DQ, then blatant DNMC's like this would be gone
Good riddance
Brett |
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01/04/2006 07:20:47 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by Beetle:
I agree that it is a stunning photo, but I am quite upset that some people enter with total and deliberate disregard to the challenge, knowing full well they are shoehorning it in.
That photo could have been saved for the "Best of 2005" or simply shared and offered as print, instead of making a mockery of everybody who actually WORKED on getting a photo for a CHALLENGE.
Seeing such gloating about it afterwards makes it even worse. |
Perfect and well said! I am sick of people voting the 'pretty' shot and not the challenge requirements. If a photo meets the challenge it should score higher than a pretty photo that does NOT meet the chalenge...just my opinion... |
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01/04/2006 07:39:34 PM · #10 |
you are correct in my single light source, my image was balanced but did not have WOW factor. It did poorly compared to lot of pictures which were obviously shot in day light and challenge description said use only artificial light.
Sometimes challenge title and decription create lot of confusion, for example, oops-ii,
title : "OOPS"
Description: "photograph something gone wrong"
by decription you can shoot anything that has gone wrong and it may not be an OOPS, lot of people commented its not an oops, well so why do we have the challenge decription then.
in the end, i have concluded that if i need to win, i need to get a dSLR use prime lense and shoot anything but it should be stunning looking photograph that follows some rules that these voters here vote on , some rules like 'Rule of thirds' etc. Thinking out of box has alomost no meaning here.
Originally posted by Alienyst:
Originally posted by Beetle:
I agree that it is a stunning photo, but I am quite upset that some people enter with total and deliberate disregard to the challenge, knowing full well they are shoehorning it in.
That photo could have been saved for the "Best of 2005" or simply shared and offered as print, instead of making a mockery of everybody who actually WORKED on getting a photo for a CHALLENGE.
Seeing such gloating about it afterwards makes it even worse. |
Perfect and well said! I am sick of people voting the 'pretty' shot and not the challenge requirements. If a photo meets the challenge it should score higher than a pretty photo that does NOT meet the chalenge...just my opinion... |
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01/04/2006 07:42:09 PM · #11 |
Problem is, shoe-horned or not, the voice of the voters is in, and they've said it was a very good challenge entry. Or did they? It was voted high because they liked it?
I agree that this bites, big time. What can be done about it? Everytime this (DNMC) comes up some people say they vote it down significantly - then others chime in and say that DNMC isn't a severe markdown in their eyes and belittle those who would give an image a 1,2, or 3 vote.
The balls in our court, and court rules say that all votes count. Did you make yours count in this case? There were 50 comments made, of those 50 comments 26 made mention of the image being a stretch (or more) on meeting the challenge - yet collectively, the avg score for all commenters was 7.326. This says DNMC doesn't mean squat.
It's a shame because I like to try and figure out a way to meet the challenge - after all that's what it is right? I don't know, perhaps we should just have 'Free Study' free-for-alls every week instead...
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01/04/2006 07:46:13 PM · #12 |
When put with the title, which is part of the presentation of the photo, it does fit the challenge.
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01/04/2006 07:47:20 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Problem is, shoe-horned or not, the voice of the voters is in, and they've said it was a very good challenge entry. Or did they? It was voted high because they liked it?
I agree that this bites, big time. What can be done about it? Everytime this (DNMC) comes up some people say they vote it down significantly - then others chime in and say that DNMC isn't a severe markdown in their eyes and belittle those who would give an image a 1,2, or 3 vote.
The balls in our court, and court rules say that all votes count. Did you make yours count in this case? There were 50 comments made, of those 50 comments 26 made mention of the image being a stretch (or more) on meeting the challenge - yet collectively, the avg score for all commenters was 7.326. This says DNMC doesn't mean squat.
It's a shame because I like to try and figure out a way to meet the challenge - after all that's what it is right? I don't know, perhaps we should just have 'Free Study' free-for-alls every week instead... |
I second that. |
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01/04/2006 07:49:53 PM · #14 |
I gave it a 4. I think you went way overboard with NI and lost most of the good detail in the image. That and the blatant disregard for the challenge topic.
IF YOU CANNOT TAKE A PICTURE FOR THE CHALLENGE PLEASE DO NOT ENTER IT! It is uncalled for and disrespectful to the people who DO put in the time and effort to meet the requested topic.
Think of DPchallenge as a client asking for specific things each week. If you shoot a picture that does not meet the client's requirements it is the responsibility of the community (the voters) to let you know with their vote that you missed the mark. Unfortunately I don't believe enough people do that.
Why do you think we have challenges here and why do you feel the need to mock them and the voters alike?
(you figuratively, as in the people who shoehorn in entries)
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01/04/2006 07:50:18 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
I don't know, perhaps we should just have 'Free Study' free-for-alls every week instead... |
I worry that eventually DPC will become just DP, since the challenge part of it won't matter at all anymore :-( |
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01/04/2006 07:52:19 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by zxaar:
Sometimes challenge title and decription create lot of confusion, for example, oops-ii,
title : "OOPS"
Description: "photograph something gone wrong"
by decription you can shoot anything that has gone wrong and it may not be an OOPS, lot of people commented its not an oops, well so why do we have the challenge decription then.
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OK then, you tell me what's "gone wrong" with a tiger in the snow. Tigers live in snowy climates.
Originally posted by zxaar:
in the end, i have concluded that if i need to win, i need to get a dSLR use prime lense and shoot anything but it should be stunning looking photograph that follows some rules that these voters here vote on , some rules like 'Rule of thirds' etc. Thinking out of box has alomost no meaning here.
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Not true, just shoot something that makes sense in the context of the challenge.
Message edited by author 2006-01-04 19:52:53.
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01/04/2006 07:55:25 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by Konador:
When put with the title, which is part of the presentation of the photo, it does fit the challenge. |
I respectfully disagree. Otherwise all challenges are free study if you can just think of a snappy title.
It could be titled "Just ate a tourist, knife, fork, spoonand all" and be entered into the knife fork spoon challenge and according to this logic meet the challenge. |
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01/04/2006 07:59:28 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by livitup:
OK then, you tell me what's "gone wrong" with a tiger in the snow. Tigers live in snowy climates. |
Looks like he's laying there ready to bask in the sun, but his face looks like it has an annoyed kind of expression. And we all know the weather forecast on TV is always wrong, so I found it quite a funny way of meeting challenge and voted appropriately.
In no way to I find this photo disrespectful. I'm baffled how people could. Disrespectful to the people below? Well the people below are some of the same people who voted on the challenge, and this shot did better, so it obviously is a better photo for the challenge by majority vote.
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01/04/2006 08:00:46 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by Konador:
When put with the title, which is part of the presentation of the photo, it does fit the challenge. |
I tend to push the limits too often for this group, and don't fit within the narrow vision of the challenge. I do, however, put in time and energy to come up with my image and the connection to the challenge.
Over the years, I have worked with children to help them see the possibilities. We would practice looking at the "many varied and unusual ways" something could be viewed. It is not Black or White thinking. It is not even out of the box. It is just another viewpoint that has some explanation in the title for those looking from the usual perspective.
I find it interesting that as photographers who are constantly looking for a unique perspective in our images, we don't try the same thing in our view of the challenge.
I've gotten used to the narrow interpretations of the challenges and gennerally work within them. You have to, in order to do well in this forum. But, every once in a while, a beautiful shot with a strong title connection gets viewed as a whole. I don't think that is wrong, just a slight change in the perspective. |
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01/04/2006 08:01:14 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by Konador:
When put with the title, which is part of the presentation of the photo, it does fit the challenge. |
Ben, personally I agree that a good title can help an image. The whole title is/isn't important is a whole 'nother can of worms that could be debated quite heavily (again) I'm sure.
In this case however, the OP made it sound as if the entry was an intentional DNMC. The photographer has not surfaced in this thread, but he did make the following comment on the image page:
Originally posted by sajin:
ok everyone...i know that meeting the challenge with this pic was a bit of a long shot...but...i got a great pic...and i wanted to share it with u |
Part of the point I am trying to make is that this thread has sparked some enthusiasm regarding the DNMC issue. Some have expressed opinions that they don't like the way this worked out, yet over half of the commenters during voting on this entry stated concerns about meeting the challenge. Commenters avg? 7.326
On one hand we're saying we don't like DNMC, on the other the scores don't reflect the same opinion. It's kind of like "put up, or shut up". Another cliche I can't remember exactly - "talk the talk" or "walk the walk"...somebody help me out here. ;^)
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01/04/2006 08:02:49 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by Megatherian:
Originally posted by Konador:
When put with the title, which is part of the presentation of the photo, it does fit the challenge. |
I respectfully disagree. Otherwise all challenges are free study if you can just think of a snappy title.
It could be titled "Just ate a tourist, knife, fork, spoonand all" and be entered into the knife fork spoon challenge and according to this logic meet the challenge. |
I would personally find this title lame, and an extreme shoe-horn, whereas I thought the tiger shot fitted well and with humor, whether intended by the photographer or not.
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01/04/2006 08:10:24 PM · #22 |
I gave it a ten, and would do it again.
I think it was perfect for the contest. However, many did not....and thats why it does not have a ribbon.
So, whats the big deal again? |
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01/04/2006 08:15:06 PM · #23 |
That's the point, where do you drawn the line?
There is a balance that has to be met. Many people use this site to learn but there's more to photography than just taking a great picture - it's also meeting the clients request. As voters shouldn't we vote accordingly to both criteria.
If someone is hired to take a family portrait and the photographer takes the most amazing shot of the rose bush behind the family and then says, "well the family was there" they are going to get fired no matter how great a shot the roses were.
Again, I'm speaking generally of DNMC - I used the tiger as an example in my last post just because it was readily avaialble. |
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01/04/2006 08:15:49 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by livitup:
Not true, just shoot something that makes sense in the context of the challenge. |
just wait till the shapes-ii voting stops, the image i have entered is
1. meets the challenge perfectly well
2. very good composition
3. out of box thinking
4. no wow factor
after 70 votes its at 4.0 score, and it does not need title to explain the image. |
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01/04/2006 08:20:07 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by Konador:
When put with the title, which is part of the presentation of the photo, it does fit the challenge. |
I'm in agreement here... seems that if the challenge was meant to be based solely on the image, a title wouldn't be asked for or even necessary. One should be able to look at any image and immediately tie it to the appropriate topic. Should be as plain as the nose on ones face. No room for thought or reflection. Click... 3 click 7... based solely on first impressions. I've seen tons of images that didn't hit me at first second or even sometimes 3rd glance... but after reading the title, it hit me like a ton of bricks... of course, I see it now, what a brilliant take. I vote for the immediate removal of all titles... |
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