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01/17/2006 12:27:12 AM · #151 |
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
I was only able to create one scenario where a vote is actually miscast, |
That is enough. I have no idea what I'm doing wrong but without trying to re-create any scenario it has happened at least a few dozen times in the last week.
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01/17/2006 12:27:52 AM · #152 |
Originally posted by livitup:
Originally posted by ayshih:
Just thought I'd chime in. I'm having a more sinister problem than mentioned earlier with making a second pass using the Thumbnail page (although maybe I missed it). Not only are some of my votes not registering, but some of my votes are being assigned to the wrong photos. If it matters, I am using the restricted view to see only those photos I've scored, say, 9. I am not using multiple pages or browsers in any way.
Linux, Firefox 1.5 |
I noticed the same problem when I was voting on the Burst of Color Challenge.
I do a first pass on all the photos, bucketing in 4,5,and 6.
I then used the "view all 6's" option, because that top 'bucket' will all get promoted to 7, 8, or 9.
I noticed that if, in the thumbnail viewer, I click on the 7,8, or 9 to bump up the score, the border of the photo would change to green, indicating the change was made. However, if I refresh the page all my votes are back where they were originally. Same if I close the browser and re-open. I can't seem to make those votes 'stick.' I have to go to the individual images and bump up from there.
This was using XP SP2 and IE6. |
I don't think simply refreshing the page will do it. For me, I've always had to click on a different page number for it to register the changed vote. I've never tried to do it via refresh, though, so I could be wrong.
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01/17/2006 12:34:03 AM · #153 |
Originally posted by justin_hewlett:
I don't think simply refreshing the page will do it. For me, I've always had to click on a different page number for it to register the changed vote. I've never tried to do it via refresh, though, so I could be wrong. |
It used to be that clicking the number under the thumbnail would trigger some javascript that immediatley sent the update up to the DPC servers. Thus I could change an entire page worth of votes, close the window using the red x, open back up my browser, and the next time I logged in to DPC, the updated votes would be there.
Now it seems like that automagical update to the server isn't working (or was removed) and I've got to do something to record the changes on the page. If that's the case then an "Update Votes" button should be added to the thumbnails page.
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01/17/2006 12:38:07 AM · #154 |
Originally posted by livitup:
...automagical... |
I like that.
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01/17/2006 12:39:20 AM · #155 |
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
Bason on my testing, in most cases the VOTE issue is a display issue and not an actual miscast vote issue. I was only able to create one scenario where a vote is actually miscast, and that is if the voter selects a vote, then changes his mind and clicks another score (or the same one again) before the next page comes up.
All other instances cause the previous vote and comment to be DISPLAYED on the vote page, but not actually RECORDED, though if the user does not delete the comment, the comment will be recorded along with the vote actually case.
~Terry |
I get this kind of response, and give this kind of response, all the time on the job.
Whether you think it "the space between the chair and the keyboard" or not is not the point.
YOUR USERS ARE HAVING PROBLEMS AS A DIRECT RESULT OF A CHANGE PUT IN PLACE, PLEASE FIX IT.
It wasn't happening before, it is now. Simple as that. To sit there and say that something that your users tell you is a problem is not a problem, but a minor inconvenience and they're just doing it wrong, is a little silly.
I support the dicision to change, and understand why it was made, but there is a bug in the new code, and people need it changed back to the original functionality, if not format.
When you vote on an image, and change your mind before the next one loads, you used to be able to change your vote real quick, it screws up now.
When you press the back button to quick change a vote, it screws the system up now.
Sometimes you randomly get images slotted back into the voting when you already voted on them.
I have found though, that clicking on the challenge title under the picture, and gonig back to the thumbs page resets the re-votes though.
Message edited by author 2006-01-17 00:47:37. |
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01/17/2006 12:47:03 AM · #156 |
I'm not denying a darned thing. In fact, I've spent most of my day off from work today trying to nail down the specific sets of circumstances that trigger the problem. Without this, it's impossible to find the cause.
To be blunt, though, I can't fix it, nor can anyone else on Site Council. We don't have access to code. Langdon can fix it though, and is working on that fix. I've given him the results of my research so he can hopefully get this fixed as quickly as possible. Please be patient while he does that, as he also has a full-time job to contend with (plus the inevitable extra workload that always follows coming back from vacation).
~Terry
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01/17/2006 12:47:36 AM · #157 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by mycelium:
I very strongly prefer having it both on the top and bottom! Please bring it back!
Thank you! |
It was moved to the bottom to:
--Save vertical space for people with smaller displays
--Minimize "speed-voting" where people select a vote before the photo has even fully loaded. |
I think the issue with this is the movement up and down the screen - While I understand the intent, it's something I find annoying also. I run on a pretty fast link, so the delay in the picture loading for me is pretty small. Possibly another solution would be to disable the top vote links until the photo was down on the clients browser. |
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01/17/2006 12:48:30 AM · #158 |
Originally posted by robs:
I think the issue with this is the movement up and down the screen - While I understand the intent, it's something I find annoying also. I run on a pretty fast link, so the delay in the picture loading for me is pretty small. Possibly another solution would be to disable the top vote links until the photo was down on the clients browser. |
How would one implement that?
~Terry
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01/17/2006 12:54:08 AM · #159 |
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
Originally posted by robs:
I think the issue with this is the movement up and down the screen - While I understand the intent, it's something I find annoying also. I run on a pretty fast link, so the delay in the picture loading for me is pretty small. Possibly another solution would be to disable the top vote links until the photo was down on the clients browser. |
How would one implement that?
~Terry |
JS to change the viewable property in the DOM for that attribute - dunno... Just an observation and suggestion.... |
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01/17/2006 12:58:01 AM · #160 |
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
I'm not denying a darned thing. In fact, I've spent most of my day off from work today trying to nail down the specific sets of circumstances that trigger the problem. Without this, it's impossible to find the cause.
To be blunt, though, I can't fix it, nor can anyone else on Site Council. We don't have access to code. Langdon can fix it though, and is working on that fix. I've given him the results of my research so he can hopefully get this fixed as quickly as possible. Please be patient while he does that, as he also has a full-time job to contend with (plus the inevitable extra workload that always follows coming back from vacation).
~Terry |
Guess I misread you then. Sorry.
I would suggest that the problem with mis-assigned votes is that the code is switching to a new record to interface with before the record is displayed, so a user can encounter a scenario when if, for whatever reason, the new picture is not loaded, and the backend app is pointed to a new record anyways, the vote is miscast.
A simple (rhetorically) fix is to set the interface controls to load after the new image has loaded, and not before. If the new image does not load, the interface controls will still be pointed to the previous image. |
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01/17/2006 01:01:30 AM · #161 |
Originally posted by robs:
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
Originally posted by robs:
I think the issue with this is the movement up and down the screen - While I understand the intent, it's something I find annoying also. I run on a pretty fast link, so the delay in the picture loading for me is pretty small. Possibly another solution would be to disable the top vote links until the photo was down on the clients browser. |
How would one implement that?
~Terry |
JS to change the viewable property in the DOM for that attribute - dunno... Just an observation and suggestion.... |
Might work... I'm not familiar with Javascript. If it does it nicely solves the troll-voting issue. I'll point Langdon at this and see what he things.
~Terry
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01/17/2006 01:04:50 AM · #162 |
Originally posted by wavelength:
Guess I misread you then. Sorry.
I would suggest that the problem with mis-assigned votes is that the code is switching to a new record to interface with before the record is displayed, so a user can encounter a scenario when if, for whatever reason, the new picture is not loaded, and the backend app is pointed to a new record anyways, the vote is miscast.
A simple (rhetorically) fix is to set the interface controls to load after the new image has loaded, and not before. If the new image does not load, the interface controls will still be pointed to the previous image. |
No worries.
What it looks like to me is the image loaded last yanks out control from the one before it. It's definitely some type of session/caching issue. If that's the case, the fix above won't work.
Nonetheless, I'll point Langdon at this post as well... his knowledge on this is orders of magnitude better than mine.
Thanks,
~Terry
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01/17/2006 01:09:13 AM · #163 |
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
Nonetheless, I'll point Langdon at this post as well... his knowledge on this is orders of magnitude better than mine.
Thanks,
~Terry |
And mine too ;o) |
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01/17/2006 01:23:46 AM · #164 |
Something I've noticed, twice, during this best-of challenge, is that an earlier comment that I have read and checked helpful has been moved, verbatim, to the top of the comments list and is no longer checked as helpful. This is possibly a result of a sorting voter going back to change his vote. I don't know if it has any relation to any of these problems.
Robt. |
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01/17/2006 01:30:55 AM · #165 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Something I've noticed, twice, during this best-of challenge, is that an earlier comment that I have read and checked helpful has been moved, verbatim, to the top of the comments list and is no longer checked as helpful. This is possibly a result of a sorting voter going back to change his vote. I don't know if it has any relation to any of these problems.
Robt. |
This actually isn't new, it's happened to me on several occaions in the past; at least now I know I'm not crazy... or that both of us are!
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01/17/2006 01:33:09 AM · #166 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
This actually isn't new, it's happened to me on several occaions in the past; at least now I know I'm not crazy... or that both of us are! |
OK, there ya go!
R. |
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01/17/2006 01:40:28 AM · #167 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Something I've noticed, twice, during this best-of challenge, is that an earlier comment that I have read and checked helpful has been moved, verbatim, to the top of the comments list and is no longer checked as helpful. This is possibly a result of a sorting voter going back to change his vote. I don't know if it has any relation to any of these problems.
Robt. |
This actually isn't new, it's happened to me on several occaions in the past; at least now I know I'm not crazy... or that both of us are! |
me three :-) |
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01/17/2006 01:43:12 AM · #168 |
Originally posted by wavelength:
I get this kind of response, and give this kind of response, all the time on the job.
Whether you think it "the space between the chair and the keyboard" or not is not the point.
YOUR USERS ARE HAVING PROBLEMS AS A DIRECT RESULT OF A CHANGE PUT IN PLACE, PLEASE FIX IT.
It wasn't happening before, it is now. Simple as that. To sit there and say that something that your users tell you is a problem is not a problem, but a minor inconvenience and they're just doing it wrong, is a little silly.
I support the dicision to change, and understand why it was made, but there is a bug in the new code, and people need it changed back to the original functionality, if not format.
When you vote on an image, and change your mind before the next one loads, you used to be able to change your vote real quick, it screws up now.
When you press the back button to quick change a vote, it screws the system up now.
Sometimes you randomly get images slotted back into the voting when you already voted on them.
I have found though, that clicking on the challenge title under the picture, and gonig back to the thumbs page resets the re-votes though. |
Even if it is a perceptual problem (vote looks like it is cast but isn't untill you actually vote) it is still a problem that makes the site's voting structure look bad. If it looks bad it is bad for business. I know I'm in the pizza business, I know about the difference between perception and reality!
Something needs to be done soon to help the common denominator (the voter) feel secure in the system. |
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01/17/2006 02:08:16 AM · #169 |
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
Originally posted by robs:
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
Originally posted by robs:
IPossibly another solution would be to disable the top vote links until the photo was down on the clients browser. |
How would one implement that?
~Terry |
JS to change the viewable property in the DOM for that attribute - dunno... Just an observation and suggestion.... |
I'll point Langdon at this and see what he thinks. |
This sounds super duper. I'm all for fixes that reduce the incident of 'troll voting,' and I will remain hopeful that there is some way to get that top voting bar back. |
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01/17/2006 02:43:17 AM · #170 |
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
Bason on my testing, in most cases the VOTE issue is a display issue and not an actual miscast vote issue. I was only able to create one scenario where a vote is actually miscast, and that is if the voter selects a vote, then changes his mind and clicks another score (or the same one again) before the next page comes up.
All other instances cause the previous vote and comment to be DISPLAYED on the vote page, but not actually RECORDED, though if the user does not delete the comment, the comment will be recorded along with the vote actually case.
~Terry |
Huh. I was about to say that the bug I mentioned (bumping multiple pictures on the Thumbnail pages) definitely changed votes in an unintended fashion, and did not depend on trying to do stuff while pages were loading. *However*, I went back and did some further testing, and it appears that if I wait ~10 seconds between each changed vote, then the votes are processed correctly. Faster than that, votes start screwing up. There definitely appears to be some quite common "race condition" (CS term) with the Javascript calls. Thus, until an actual fix, the best temporary workaround may be to simply slow down quite a bit when voting (the amount probably depends on the speed of your internet connection).
By the way, I apologize to those guys whose votes I keep bumping up and down to do my testing, but you guys are the ones getting 9s and 10s from me anyway, so you shouldn't complain. =) |
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01/17/2006 04:21:29 AM · #171 |
Just ran into this-
I left a comment on an image. Voted (5). Went to the next image. Same vote (5) and same comment were there. Delected the comment, clicked the "<<" button, went to a different image I'd already voted on, with the same numerical vote (5) I'd previous left. I have by this point lost track of the image on which I intended to leave the comment.
Fortunately for this saga, the bug in which I return to images I've already voted on has helped me, because a few clicks later (going through images I've already rated), the same image from the beginning of this soap opera pops up. The vote of 5 is there, but the comment is not.
This is really not good.
The core purpose of this site - to vote on images and share our ideas and criticisms about them - is being seriously hampered.
The service I have paid for is not being delivered. I am not happy with this at all. |
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01/17/2006 06:53:43 AM · #172 |
Originally posted by mycelium:
Just ran into this-
I left a comment on an image. Voted (5). Went to the next image. Same vote (5) and same comment were there. Delected the comment, clicked the "<<" button, went to a different image I'd already voted on, with the same numerical vote (5) I'd previous left. I have by this point lost track of the image on which I intended to leave the comment.
Fortunately for this saga, the bug in which I return to images I've already voted on has helped me, because a few clicks later (going through images I've already rated), the same image from the beginning of this soap opera pops up. The vote of 5 is there, but the comment is not.
This is really not good.
The core purpose of this site - to vote on images and share our ideas and criticisms about them - is being seriously hampered.
The service I have paid for is not being delivered. I am not happy with this at all. |
Not surprising. The "<<" records a vote. The rest is a variation/combination of bugs already recorded.
Until this is fixed, I recommend avoiding use of the back or << buttons.
~Terry
Message edited by author 2006-01-17 07:38:36.
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01/17/2006 07:37:02 AM · #173 |
BUG CONFIRMATION AND SCOPE DESCRIPTION
We have confirmed the existence of a flaw in the DPChallenge voting mechanism that will cause comments and votes to DISPLAY incorrectly in some images while voting. In most cases, this is just a display error, but in a very small number of cases, those votes are recorded incorrectly.
This flaw most often occurs under the following scenarios:
1. Voting in multiple browser windows or tabs.
2. The "<<" button or the browser's "BACK" button is used while voting to go back and re-vote an earlier image.
3. Casting a vote, then re-clicking it or changing it before the next image appears, OR double-clicking rather than single-clicking while voting.
4. Changing votes from the thumbnail page.
A fix is being prepared. In the meantime, the following workarounds are recommended:
1. Vote in a single window or tab. Alternating screens while voting WILL trigger display errors.
2. Do not use the << or browser back buttons to go re-score an earlier image. Instead, return to the thumbnail page and adjust your score there (see also #4 below).
3. Once you have clicked on anything in the voting bar, do not click it again until the next image has loaded. If you need to change a score, go back to the thumbnail page to do so.
4. When changing scores from the thumbnail page, allow time between clicks to allow each individual change to be recorded. Ten seconds should be sufficient in most cases. Also wait about 10 seconds after making your final vote to refresh your browser. You can check whether your changes were recorded by refreshing your browser (again waiting 10 seconds after your last click to refresh).
Once again, the above are intended as temporary workarounds only. This will be repaired. Thanks for your patience.
~Terry
Message edited by author 2006-01-17 07:37:56.
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01/17/2006 08:29:10 AM · #174 |
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
... This will be repaired. Thanks for your patience.
~Terry |
NO, don't fix it...that's probably why I have a decent score going !!
:-P |
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01/17/2006 08:57:33 AM · #175 |
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