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DPChallenge Forums >> Hardware and Software >> 20D or XT (lens comprimise?)
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12/22/2005 05:10:09 PM · #1
Which senario would you pick?

1. Purchase the 20D and the Sigma 70-200 2.8 lens (tripod collar included).

- or -

2. Purchase the Rebel XT and the (non-IS) Canon 70-200 2.8 (have to add for tripod collar).

(I think the cost would be about equal)
12/22/2005 05:18:25 PM · #2
How about the 20D with Canon 70-200 F/4 ?

Just a thought.
12/22/2005 05:18:41 PM · #3
Buying new? the canon lens does not include the hood, and you'll want that.
The sigma lens is excellent (see alansfreed portfolio, the football shots of the steelers).

Are you buying one body, one lens? Shooting sports? if shooting sports, the 20D will beat the rebel in several ways.

Wither body will blow away the fuji you have now in overall performance (my pre-rebel cam was a S602z so i speak from expereince on this)
12/22/2005 05:21:51 PM · #4
I like option 2 better. The lens will last you forever (unless you want the IS version), the camera will probably be upgraded down the road.
12/22/2005 05:27:00 PM · #5
Originally posted by buzzrock:

How about the 20D with Canon 70-200 F/4 ?

Just a thought.


I think half of my shots will take place indoors (gymnasium setting, etc.).... I know, I should probably get a 2.0 (like the Canon 135 prime but not sure of it's flexibility?).
12/22/2005 05:33:46 PM · #6
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:

Buying new? the canon lens does not include the hood, and you'll want that.
The sigma lens is excellent (see alansfreed portfolio, the football shots of the steelers).

Are you buying one body, one lens? Shooting sports? if shooting sports, the 20D will beat the rebel in several ways.

Wither body will blow away the fuji you have now in overall performance (my pre-rebel cam was a S602z so i speak from expereince on this)


I really like the 20D but often hear the advice to error on the side of 'glass'. That being said, I have read various reviews which seem to put the (70-200 2.8) Sigma lens 'fairly' close company to Canon version (hence the confusion).
12/22/2005 05:51:09 PM · #7
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:

Buying new? the canon lens does not include the hood, and you'll want that.
The sigma lens is excellent (see alansfreed portfolio, the football shots of the steelers).

Are you buying one body, one lens? Shooting sports? if shooting sports, the 20D will beat the rebel in several ways.

Wither body will blow away the fuji you have now in overall performance (my pre-rebel cam was a S602z so i speak from expereince on this)


I thought that all the Canon L lenses came with their respective hoods. My 70-200 f4 certainly did.
12/22/2005 06:34:29 PM · #8
AJ - apparently they do include the hood, or at least the 70-200f4 does.

If you want absolutely the bigger aperture, then go that route. Remember that no lens is at its best at the extremes of zoom or aperture. I am a zoom man, have on e prime and will probably never have another except maybe as a macro lens.

I am not up to speed on the minor diffs on the XT vs 20D. Rebates - if you get a canon body and canon lens (if both have rebates) BOTH rebates double, so that may sway the decision a bit. I know the 20D is a better camera - build, speed, functions, over teh XT. So you'll do better with it and not upgrade as soon.
12/22/2005 06:53:04 PM · #9
I'm not a Canon guy so I don;t know the details here but, if it were me, I'd go for the 20D and the Sigma lens.

1. The days when the glass was all that mattered are over. Now the camera is the actual recording and processing device (not just a box with a hole in it as in film days) and therefore has a big impact on the quality of your pics

2. Sigma lenses give OEM lenses a run for their money these days. The differences are rarely perceptible in practice unless you're buying really top of the top end glass
12/22/2005 06:55:05 PM · #10
I vote for the XT and the L combo.
The 70-200 f2.8L comes with hood and tripod collar.
Plus you get double rebate for the lens and the body.

According to Photozone.de the L f2.8 has optimal sharpness at f4 while Sigma is sharpest at f5.6. So, I'd prefer stopping down one stop vs. two stops for max. sharpness for fast lenses.

Message edited by author 2005-12-22 18:55:55.
12/22/2005 07:49:36 PM · #11
Regardless of brand...glass is forever....camera bodies always get cheaper.

Get the xt and the better glass....Next year you will probably buy a 5D or whatever anyway :-D
12/22/2005 07:59:53 PM · #12
Just to clarify, the canon 70-200/2.8 does come with BOTH the hood and tripod collar, as well as a soft case. From B&H's page for the non-IS version of the lens:

Item Includes
E77 Front Cap
Rear Cap E
ET-83II Lens Hood
LZ1324 Soft Case
1-Year Warranty

12/22/2005 08:16:20 PM · #13
Originally posted by kirbic:

Just to clarify, the canon 70-200/2.8 does come with BOTH the hood and tripod collar, as well as a soft case. From B&H's page for the non-IS version of the lens:

Item Includes
E77 Front Cap
Rear Cap E
ET-83II Lens Hood
LZ1324 Soft Case
1-Year Warranty


I know that B&H shows the tripod collar but I see it isn't listed. I read a review (might have been an older review) which mentioned that the Canon 70-200 did not come with the tripod collar. (The darn collars are expensive!)
12/22/2005 08:30:52 PM · #14
]

I thought that all the Canon L lenses came with their respective hoods. My 70-200 f4 certainly did. [/quote]

I have three L lenses and they all came with a hood
12/22/2005 08:44:05 PM · #15
Originally posted by casualguy:

Originally posted by kirbic:

Just to clarify, the canon 70-200/2.8 does come with BOTH the hood and tripod collar, as well as a soft case. From B&H's page for the non-IS version of the lens:

Item Includes
E77 Front Cap
Rear Cap E
ET-83II Lens Hood
LZ1324 Soft Case
1-Year Warranty


I know that B&H shows the tripod collar but I see it isn't listed. I read a review (might have been an older review) which mentioned that the Canon 70-200 did not come with the tripod collar. (The darn collars are expensive!)


ALL "L" lenses come with a hood, all 70-200 f/2.8L's (IS and non-IS) come with the lens collar, the f/4L does not come with a lens collar, being a lot lighter the f/4L version does not really require a lens collar.

PS: The 20D is more "Pro" grade/build than the 350XT, has more features, shoots faster at 5 fps vs 3 fps for the XT, image quality are the same since they have the same sensor. In your place I'd probably go for the Canon 70-200 f/2.8 and the XT, bodies come and go, Good lenses stay for a while...

Message edited by author 2005-12-22 20:47:40.
12/22/2005 08:50:49 PM · #16
Originally posted by joezl:

.......2. Sigma lenses give OEM lenses a run for their money these days. The differences are rarely perceptible in practice unless you're buying really top of the top end glass


The Canon 70-200 f/2.8L is as Top end as you'll ever get, BEST zoom in that range...some say sharper than the IS version when shot side by side on a Tripod.
12/22/2005 09:44:08 PM · #17
Originally posted by doctornick:


PS: The 20D is more "Pro" grade/build than the 350XT, has more features, shoots faster at 5 fps vs 3 fps for the XT, image quality are the same since they have the same sensor.


Just a point of clarification.

The 20D and 350XT do not have the same sensor.

They are similar in pixel count, densisty and noise levels but the 20D is better on all counts.

cheers,
bazz.
12/22/2005 09:58:57 PM · #18
Could someone who owns the Canon 70-200 F2.8L please tell me if the tripod collar is/was INCLUDED with the lens when you purchased it?
12/22/2005 10:01:43 PM · #19
Originally posted by sir_bazz:

Originally posted by doctornick:


PS: The 20D is more "Pro" grade/build than the 350XT, has more features, shoots faster at 5 fps vs 3 fps for the XT, image quality are the same since they have the same sensor.


Just a point of clarification.

The 20D and 350XT do not have the same sensor.

They are similar in pixel count, densisty and noise levels but the 20D is better on all counts.

cheers,
bazz.


I stand corrected, the 350XT sensor has a slightly smaller pixel count at 8.2 MP vs 8.5 MP for the 20D, but according to Phil Askey the image quality is the same. The 20D is a better camera for sure but if budget is limited I'd go for the better lens than the better body...
12/22/2005 10:02:10 PM · #20
Originally posted by casualguy:

Could someone who owns the Canon 70-200 F2.8L please tell me if the tripod collar is/was INCLUDED with the lens when you purchased it?


YES
12/22/2005 10:04:31 PM · #21
Originally posted by doctornick:

Originally posted by sir_bazz:

Originally posted by doctornick:


PS: The 20D is more "Pro" grade/build than the 350XT, has more features, shoots faster at 5 fps vs 3 fps for the XT, image quality are the same since they have the same sensor.


Just a point of clarification.

The 20D and 350XT do not have the same sensor.

They are similar in pixel count, densisty and noise levels but the 20D is better on all counts.

cheers,
bazz.


I stand corrected, the 350XT sensor has a slightly smaller pixel count at 8.2 MP vs 8.5 MP for the 20D, but according to Phil Askey the image quality is the same. The 20D is a better camera for sure but if budget is limited I'd go for the better lens than the better body...


I heard the noise on the 20D is better at high ISOs (and maybe noise in general). I don't remember where that was, but it seems like I've heard it from more than one person... I kind of doubt that it's a Huge difference though.

Message edited by author 2005-12-22 22:05:11.
12/22/2005 10:13:15 PM · #22
Originally posted by doctornick:


I stand corrected, the 350XT sensor has a slightly smaller pixel count at 8.2 MP vs 8.5 MP for the 20D, but according to Phil Askey the image quality is the same. The 20D is a better camera for sure but if budget is limited I'd go for the better lens than the better body...


Hi doc,

On one of the comparo pages, Phil Askey also notes that at high ISO the 20D is better than the 300/350D. I've quoted the relevant text below.

"The cleanest ISO 1600 image is delivered by the EOS 20D, closely followed by the EOS 300D and 350D."

IMHO the 20D is head and shoulders above any entry-level camera and is priced accordingly.

If anyone considering a 20D can squeeze the extra funds into the budget then go for it.

Having said that, PMA2006 is just around the corner and the next generation of whiz bang technology enabled dslr's could make the 20D look noisy. :shrugs shoulders:

bazz.

Message edited by author 2005-12-22 22:14:14.
12/22/2005 10:13:39 PM · #23
hmm
12/22/2005 10:29:30 PM · #24
I say go with the 20D....if you don't.....you'll end up wishing you had...

12/22/2005 10:32:48 PM · #25
Originally posted by wgoodey:

I heard the noise on the 20D is better at high ISOs (and maybe noise in general).


I can vouch for that. I have a 350D at home and a 20D at work. The 350D at ISO800 is comparable to the 20D at ISO1600. I'd lean toward the 20D and Sigma personally. The advantages in frame rate, lower noise and build quality should more than offset the slight difference between those lenses, and the 20D's grip is WAYYY more comfortable unless you have elf hands.
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