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12/21/2005 07:42:51 PM · #1 |
I propose that the site abolish "cutesy" challenge titles and replace them with a numerical system--such as, Open Member Challenge #1234.
Too many people stop at the challenge title and never read beyond! If challenges were simply numbered we would have no doubt that entrants had read the description.
Despite the fact that entrants must go to a page with the description on it in order to enter their photo, we continuosly see entries that could have been taken for any reason and others that flaut the intention(s) of their descriptors! By the time people actually enter their photos it's too late! Let's avoid all that and force people to read descriptions--entrants and voters alike!
We could make them re-type in exactitude the description in order to enter the challenge!
If we must continue with titles, there should be no separation of the title from the description while the challenge is in submission phase. (With, of course, the exception of forum titles/discussions.)
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12/21/2005 07:45:51 PM · #2 |
| I like this idea...I didn't have the same but I think it has merit and a sound basis in application. |
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12/21/2005 07:49:20 PM · #3 |
i would like to get rid of photo titles more than challenge titles... but i see your point
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12/21/2005 07:52:25 PM · #4 |
Originally posted by nico_blue:
i would like to get rid of photo titles more than challenge titles... but i see your point |
Now thats a neat idea! No title in a challenge, that would be dang ineresting. |
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12/21/2005 07:52:29 PM · #5 |
| If we could find out on average how many ppl actaully do read the description that would help us out on this matter and maybe sway in favor of your opinion. |
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12/21/2005 07:56:59 PM · #6 |
I agree, Kadi... Look at the fantastic cheesy smiles that were in the cheese challenge... and they were voted poorly because they didnt have cheese in em... seems a select few decide what the challenge is all about... then discuss it to death in the forums prior to the voting starting...dunno if this idea will help that problem though
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12/21/2005 07:59:55 PM · #7 |
BAWAWAAHHHH
Now we have a thread about getting rid of challenge descriptions, and now you want to do away with the title and keep the descriptions?
Rose
PS: Actually, if it is just the title, I am cool with it. If it is just the description, that is cool too, as long as it is VERY defined.
Message edited by author 2005-12-21 20:01:56.
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12/21/2005 08:01:05 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by di53:
I agree, Kadi... Look at the fantastic cheesy smiles that were in the cheese challenge... and they were voted poorly because they didnt have cheese in em... seems a select few decide what the challenge is all about... then discuss it to death in the forums prior to the voting starting...dunno if this idea will help that problem though |
I dunno either.
And I really do like challenge titles--they're sort of historical in nature--as in, "Remember Pearl Harbor!" and, metaphorically, we all know what is meant! So, DPC-style, remember "Selective Desaturation"--and some of us say, "Yeah! WWIT?"
As a reader and language-lover and logician, I scour the words for clues. But that has proven not to be the case for all of our site members....what to do, what to do....?
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12/21/2005 08:02:22 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by Rose8699:
BAWAWAAHHHH |
BAWAWAAHHHH!
(LOL!)
*<|}:-)
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12/21/2005 08:03:37 PM · #10 |
you can leave the title empty ( virtually )
***
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12/21/2005 08:05:40 PM · #11 |
Maybe it needs to be no discussion in the forums... we have people who over analyze the challenges.. what happened to just let the challenge come, go out take YOUR interpretaion then let the voting start... nope not anymore .. now we have certain people sitting there demanding to have the challenge in their interpretaion... and telling people they ahve researched it to death and thats what it should be...right or wrong
Originally posted by KaDi:
Originally posted by di53:
I agree, Kadi... Look at the fantastic cheesy smiles that were in the cheese challenge... and they were voted poorly because they didnt have cheese in em... seems a select few decide what the challenge is all about... then discuss it to death in the forums prior to the voting starting...dunno if this idea will help that problem though |
I dunno either.
And I really do like challenge titles--they're sort of historical in nature--as in, "Remember Pearl Harbor!" and, metaphorically, we all know what is meant! So, DPC-style, remember "Selective Desaturation"--and some of us say, "Yeah! WWIT?"
As a reader and language-lover and logician, I scour the words for clues. But that has proven not to be the case for all of our site members....what to do, what to do....? |
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12/21/2005 08:19:12 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by di53:
Maybe it needs to be no discussion in the forums... we have people who over analyze the challenges.. what happened to just let the challenge come, go out take YOUR interpretaion then let the voting start... nope not anymore .. now we have certain people sitting there demanding to have the challenge in their interpretaion... and telling people they ahve researched it to death and thats what it should be...right or wrong |
I think I understand what you mean. There is an awful lot of dogma when it comes to what things "mean"....BUT, in many ways that's necessary. Especially when it comes to "photographic" terminology.
For example, last year I had never heard of the word "bokeh." Then, along came this challenge. Well, that required research and discussion, thought and more thought....and I nearly made it, in one week, I nearly had the whole concept! A photo in focus I did not have, but I really think I learned a HUGE thing from all the discussion. (What cheese means, I had less problem with--but that's why we're "here", isn't it?)
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12/21/2005 08:27:50 PM · #13 |
it shoudl be up to each photographer to look it up .. not one who tells everyone what the challenge means...
Originally posted by KaDi:
Originally posted by di53:
Maybe it needs to be no discussion in the forums... we have people who over analyze the challenges.. what happened to just let the challenge come, go out take YOUR interpretaion then let the voting start... nope not anymore .. now we have certain people sitting there demanding to have the challenge in their interpretaion... and telling people they ahve researched it to death and thats what it should be...right or wrong |
I think I understand what you mean. There is an awful lot of dogma when it comes to what things "mean"....BUT, in many ways that's necessary. Especially when it comes to "photographic" terminology.
For example, last year I had never heard of the word "bokeh." Then, along came this challenge. Well, that required research and discussion, thought and more thought....and I nearly made it, in one week, I nearly had the whole concept! A photo in focus I did not have, but I really think I learned a HUGE thing from all the discussion. (What cheese means, I had less problem with--but that's why we're "here", isn't it?) |
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12/21/2005 08:30:41 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by di53:
it shoudl be up to each photographer to look it up .. not one who tells everyone what the challenge means... |
That's the way it always has been....sigh. It just seems not to be such a good way to do things anymore.... *<|:-( |
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12/21/2005 08:39:21 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by MQuinn:
Originally posted by nico_blue:
i would like to get rid of photo titles more than challenge titles... but i see your point |
Now thats a neat idea! No title in a challenge, that would be dang ineresting. |
I really like the idea of a No Title challenge, although not as the challenge itself, just as part of the challenge.
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12/21/2005 08:40:04 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by KaDi:
Originally posted by di53:
Maybe it needs to be no discussion in the forums... we have people who over analyze the challenges.. what happened to just let the challenge come, go out take YOUR interpretaion then let the voting start... nope not anymore .. now we have certain people sitting there demanding to have the challenge in their interpretaion... and telling people they ahve researched it to death and thats what it should be...right or wrong |
I think I understand what you mean. There is an awful lot of dogma when it comes to what things "mean"....BUT, in many ways that's necessary. Especially when it comes to "photographic" terminology.
For example, last year I had never heard of the word "bokeh." Then, along came this challenge. Well, that required research and discussion, thought and more thought....and I nearly made it, in one week, I nearly had the whole concept! A photo in focus I did not have, but I really think I learned a HUGE thing from all the discussion. (What cheese means, I had less problem with--but that's why we're "here", isn't it?) |
HEY, di53, I totally agree with Kadi.
Very well put Kadi. Yeah, I certainly understand what she means too, but I totally agree with what you said. I learned a lot about shallow dof this week. Also, when one has a question on a challenge, they shouldn't be mocked for it. I ALWAYS ask questions when I have them, and for the most part, (aside from the posters out there who want to do nothing but talk about "certain people" all of the time and what they do that she doesn't agree with :) I have gotten some very nice and helpful responses.
There were great arguments about CHEESE. BUT, look at the top winners? ALL cheese related as in literal cheese. It was certainly worth the discussion, and NO I don't think it sways the votes either way. Like some council have said, "deal with it" if people make concept comments, and they also say that a lot of voters are probably not even seeing the threads on such discussion. BUT that IS what certain threads and folders are here for, I agree.
Rose
Message edited by author 2005-12-21 20:41:02.
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12/21/2005 08:41:50 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by vxpra:
Originally posted by MQuinn:
Originally posted by nico_blue:
i would like to get rid of photo titles more than challenge titles... but i see your point |
Now thats a neat idea! No title in a challenge, that would be dang ineresting. |
I really like the idea of a No Title challenge, although not as the challenge itself, just as part of the challenge. |
vxpra: not sure you're being clear here.
Do you mean:
1. a challenge with the "title" NO TITLE--and just a description
or
2. abolish all challenge titles
or
3. _______________ |
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12/21/2005 09:00:22 PM · #18 |
since you were one who demanded that cheese only be cheese not smiles or people saying cheese.. I dont think that i need to have this conversation with you...
Originally posted by Rose8699:
Originally posted by KaDi:
Originally posted by di53:
Maybe it needs to be no discussion in the forums... we have people who over analyze the challenges.. what happened to just let the challenge come, go out take YOUR interpretaion then let the voting start... nope not anymore .. now we have certain people sitting there demanding to have the challenge in their interpretaion... and telling people they ahve researched it to death and thats what it should be...right or wrong |
I think I understand what you mean. There is an awful lot of dogma when it comes to what things "mean"....BUT, in many ways that's necessary. Especially when it comes to "photographic" terminology.
For example, last year I had never heard of the word "bokeh." Then, along came this challenge. Well, that required research and discussion, thought and more thought....and I nearly made it, in one week, I nearly had the whole concept! A photo in focus I did not have, but I really think I learned a HUGE thing from all the discussion. (What cheese means, I had less problem with--but that's why we're "here", isn't it?) |
HEY, di53, I totally agree with Kadi.
Very well put Kadi. Yeah, I certainly understand what she means too, but I totally agree with what you said. I learned a lot about shallow dof this week. Also, when one has a question on a challenge, they shouldn't be mocked for it. I ALWAYS ask questions when I have them, and for the most part, (aside from the posters out there who want to do nothing but talk about "certain people" all of the time and what they do that she doesn't agree with :) I have gotten some very nice and helpful responses.
There were great arguments about CHEESE. BUT, look at the top winners? ALL cheese related as in literal cheese. It was certainly worth the discussion, and NO I don't think it sways the votes either way. Like some council have said, "deal with it" if people make concept comments, and they also say that a lot of voters are probably not even seeing the threads on such discussion. BUT that IS what certain threads and folders are here for, I agree.
Rose |
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12/21/2005 09:09:15 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by KaDi:
Originally posted by vxpra:
Originally posted by MQuinn:
Originally posted by nico_blue:
i would like to get rid of photo titles more than challenge titles... but i see your point |
Now thats a neat idea! No title in a challenge, that would be dang ineresting. |
I really like the idea of a No Title challenge, although not as the challenge itself, just as part of the challenge. |
vxpra: not sure you're being clear here.
Do you mean:
1. a challenge with the "title" NO TITLE--and just a description
or
2. abolish all challenge titles
or
3. _______________ |
Simply no titles allowed on photos. Titles on the Challenge yes, descriptions of challenge yes. Just for one challenge (or maybe one a month) do a challenge without any titles on the photos.
Message edited by author 2005-12-21 21:11:25.
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12/21/2005 09:12:18 PM · #20 |
since you were one who demanded that cheese only be cheese not smiles or people saying cheese.. I dont think that i need to have this conversation with you...
Nope. You didn't have to even respond to my last comment either. But since you did, let's say I just have a one sided conversation about it, and then you can go on with your hopping threads informing others of your opinion about "me", in which you consistantly refer to "me" as "certain people". It hasn't gone unnoticed, just so you know. I know you have personal issues with me, but it shouldn't really effect my views stated in the forums. Everyone has them, and I am no exception. Any personal issues you have with me can be taken to PM.
To respond to your assumption, I did not demand anything. I simply stated that it said to 'use cheese', and not 'use smiles' - AND I was agreed with by many. BUT, how many listened to my supposed "demands"? LOL....I seriously doubt anyone did. People will enter what they care to when they care to, period. It's called "personal preference". As for the forums it is called "discussion" or "debate". I can certainly have any discussion with anyone on any level. You are not excluded.
Rose
Message edited by author 2005-12-21 21:18:19.
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12/21/2005 09:16:32 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by vxpra:
Simply no titles allowed on photos. Titles on the Challenge yes, descriptions of challenge yes. Just for one challenge (or maybe one a month) do a challenge without any titles on the photos. |
I could go one challenge without titles on the photos.
But I think that, in general, titles matter--they add to the art piece. (That is, however, separate from this thread's intent.)
There is another thread running which proposes to "do away with" challenge descriptions. That's why I started this thread....because, if I had to live without one or the other, as much as I despise the idea, I would abolish the title rather than the description. |
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12/21/2005 09:21:19 PM · #22 |
How about no description at all? (except maybe special occasions)
As in :
Cheese
Shallow DOF
Holiday Catalog
With no desription there is nothing to read, and it leaves the meeting/not meeting to less gray area - if the voter doesn't get the connection, the TFB, you're gonna get a low score.
What you get now is much aguing about the 'intent' or letter or spirit of the description.
Just a thought. Another site I patricipate in has done away with descriptions for most challenges and it seems to work. Last few challenges there: (with descriptions if they had them)
Nature in b&w ( Black and white nature images )
Food
Fire
Communication
Freedom
Vintage Advertising (An old style/antique looking ad, using old or new products.)
People in Action (eg Work, Rest, Leisure or Sports)
Nature Shots
Interestingly, People In Action's description mentions REST, but not PEOPLE - can you imagine the forum discussion we'd have on that one?
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12/21/2005 09:22:44 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by KaDi:
Originally posted by vxpra:
Simply no titles allowed on photos. Titles on the Challenge yes, descriptions of challenge yes. Just for one challenge (or maybe one a month) do a challenge without any titles on the photos. |
I could go one challenge without titles on the photos.
But I think that, in general, titles matter--they add to the art piece. (That is, however, separate from this thread's intent.)
There is another thread running which proposes to "do away with" challenge descriptions. That's why I started this thread....because, if I had to live without one or the other, as much as I despise the idea, I would abolish the title rather than the description. |
I totally agree that titles matter. In some cases, titles actually make the photo. In my cheese entry, I had about 2 comments that stated they wouldn't have known it was even made out of cheese if I hadn't said so. I "think" it actually effected those votes. Since my snowman was smiling, they may have just assumed I had a snowman saying cheese, which I think would have seriously diminished those votes.
In cases where I vote, the title I find can be very meaningful. There was one that comes to mind I believe was called "silent rendevous" or something along those lines, where there was a bench near a beach and no one sitting there. Otherwise it would have just been that. With the title I actually was able to visualize the emotion of the scene. So yeah, I think titles make a huge difference. HOWEVER, it may be cool for a challenge itself. A "no title" challenge but WITH a description of what is expected for the photos to be submitted. Example: No titles allowed: landscape.
Rose
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12/21/2005 09:32:19 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
How about no description at all? (except maybe special occasions) |
Pardon me, but there's a thread about that...this is the "No Challenge Title" thread....
Not the "No Photo Title" thread.
Not the "I was misunderstood about my position on cheese" thread.
It's the: "I only want a freakin' description of the challenge and everybody has to read it or die" thread!
>>>Kadi will now quietly retire, resting from the exertions of explanation....>>> |
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12/21/2005 09:52:31 PM · #25 |
| Interesting idea KaDi but even though you don't have a Challenge Title, it still doesn't guarantee that everyone will interpret the Challenge description to mean the same thing. You will still get all the discussions on everyone's opinion as to meaning. It will still come down to each photographer having to decide for themselves how they interpret the description and what type of photo they want to enter to meet that. No matter what you do, with as many diverse people as there are on this site, I doubt if there will ever be a complete agreement as to what meets a challenge. Isn't that a part of what keeps this site so interesting and a great place to learn? 8) |
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