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DPChallenge Forums >> Rant >> Stanley "Tookie" Williams.. Thoughts?
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12/12/2005 07:13:28 PM · #1
Should he have been granted Clemency?

Yes/No?-- Why/Why-Not?
12/12/2005 07:16:06 PM · #2
Linky?

R.
12/12/2005 07:18:39 PM · #3
I've changed my opinion over the years and am now pretty well against the death penalty for both philosophical and religious reasons. Clemency from being put to death? Yes. Release from prison? Probably not.
12/12/2005 07:19:06 PM · #4
Let me just finish off this thread for you, buzz...

Did he grant clemency to his victims?
Two wrongs don't make a right.
He has not even admitted his guilt and remorse.
Violence begets violence.
He does not deserve clemency, he deserves justice.
He is a victim of society.
He must be made accountable for his actions.
He has redeemed himself by contributing childrens books that keep kids from joining gangs.
I wonder how many childrens books his victims would have written.

...and back and forth, ad infinitum.
12/12/2005 07:19:13 PM · #5
You don't know the story bear?

Start here-

News
12/12/2005 07:22:13 PM · #6
Call me a redneck, but I support the death penalty on the whole, and I support it in this case. He ended the lives of several innocent people directly (and who knows how many indirectly with his gang's proliferation across the country) and now will pay for it with his own. I believe justice has been served in this case.
12/12/2005 07:23:19 PM · #7
redneck...

j/k!
12/12/2005 07:26:05 PM · #8
Originally posted by DrAchoo:

redneck...

Looks like you and I could be the "spoons" in this debate, Laurie. ;-)
12/12/2005 07:27:42 PM · #9
death penalty - I vote with the majority - No.
12/12/2005 07:36:46 PM · #10
Lets get this going full tilt...
Why do so many conservatives adopt the fisherman mentality on issues like abortion and the death penality?

They're too small throw them back, we'll get them when they're full grown.
12/12/2005 07:43:39 PM · #11
I won't shed a tear for him tonight.
12/12/2005 07:48:24 PM · #12
OK...the death penalty...costs more then life in prison...does not bring any closure or peace to the victims relatives ( really look it up)..Are these not reasons enough??
I beleive Life in prison without parole, and they should be made to some how contribute back to the society the harmed...But then again, I am an anti DP adovocate...
12/12/2005 07:48:55 PM · #13
Originally posted by Jammur:

Lets get this going full tilt...
Why do so many conservatives adopt the fisherman mentality on issues like abortion and the death penality?

They're too small throw them back, we'll get them when they're full grown.


I'm actually against abortion AND the death penalty,

what galls me is the reasons many were given for granting him clemency. I kill innocent people, start a gang that ends up nationwide (promoting violence), but I can write a couple of children's books and get off. Lovely.
12/12/2005 07:50:02 PM · #14
Originally posted by Jammur:

Lets get this going full tilt...
Why do so many conservatives adopt the fisherman mentality on issues like abortion and the death penality?

They're too small throw them back, we'll get them when they're full grown.


Just to retort..Why do so many liberals think it is ok to kill innocent babies but not kill people who made a choice to kill (Tookie).

and back and forth and back and forth and back and forth
12/12/2005 07:53:10 PM · #15

I don't know which religion it is that speaks against capital punishment, but I do know that the Bible is filled with clear examples of it. God himself establishing it.

I am for the death penalty. In the case of Tookie I believe that the jury, judge and 24 years of appeals have provided more than enough due diligence for the system to exhaust any possibility of a reversal.

From which ever side we stand this is a true human tragedy. It should remind us of the fragility of life and of our short time here. May God grant Mercy to Tookie and all observers of this tragedy. Capital punishment is but a reflection of God's wrath for those who have not been rescued from that great day. That is what we all should really be concerned about.

12/12/2005 07:56:07 PM · #16
If you don't put him to death then there is no fear of justice for violent crimes. So you spend the rest of your life being fed everyday watching cable tv and working out in your own private gym. Where is the suffering there. The victims and their families spend eternity with the pain of loss while some scumbag sits in a "low budget" motel at tax payers expense. There has to be some sort of deterence in place that will cause people to stop and think before taking someone elses life. Not to say I'd like to pull the switch. I am very Christian but, I have to say there is a point where society has to draw a line or else it's criminals will take advatage knowing the worse possible penalty is 3 meals a day and HBO with gym priveleges for the rest of their lives.
12/12/2005 07:59:30 PM · #17
Arnold refuses to grant clemency. So what is going to happen is going to happen.
12/12/2005 08:03:12 PM · #18
Originally posted by faidoi:

Arnold refuses to grant clemency.

There's a shocker (no pun intended...well ok it was intended - - hey gives me some ideas...)
12/12/2005 08:04:34 PM · #19
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by faidoi:

Arnold refuses to grant clemency.

There's a shocker (no pun intended...well ok it was intended - - hey gives me some ideas...)


You didn't needle go there.
12/12/2005 08:09:39 PM · #20
Originally posted by faidoi:

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by faidoi:

Arnold refuses to grant clemency.

There's a shocker (no pun intended...well ok it was intended - - hey gives me some ideas...)


You didn't needle go there.

hilarious.gif

LOL! I just thought I would inject my opinion into the discussion.
12/12/2005 08:14:56 PM · #21
from what I understand, he is now an opponent to gangs and violence, and has written books in this regard. If he truly cares about stopping the violence it only makes sense that he follow through with the punishment for his crimes, displaying to those he is trying now to reach, the consequences of the behavior.
12/12/2005 08:19:19 PM · #22
Originally posted by buzzrock:

You don't know the story bear?

Start here-

News


Oh, I know the story. I just wondered if the "rest of the world" did.

R.
12/12/2005 08:24:37 PM · #23
Bear and Tookie go back a long ways from Robert's days back in the hood. That was before they both parted ways on opposite sides of the law. Or did they....
12/12/2005 08:27:35 PM · #24
Originally posted by RickH:

I don't know which religion it is that speaks against capital punishment, but I do know that the Bible is filled with clear examples of it. God himself establishing it.

I am for the death penalty. In the case of Tookie I believe that the jury, judge and 24 years of appeals have provided more than enough due diligence for the system to exhaust any possibility of a reversal.

From which ever side we stand this is a true human tragedy. It should remind us of the fragility of life and of our short time here. May God grant Mercy to Tookie and all observers of this tragedy. Capital punishment is but a reflection of God's wrath for those who have not been rescued from that great day. That is what we all should really be concerned about.


In high school, I took this view and felt the Bible supported it. However, as I looked at the question again later in life I realized that the only time Christ addresses captial punishment, when He confronts the adultress, He refuses to allow her execution. "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." What we fail to realize is that Jesus, of course, was Himself without sin and if Justice demanded such an action, then why didn't he stone her?

That passage, to me, carries far more weight than any Old Testament ideas. If the Man who is the namesake of my religion chose not to kill a woman when He had every right, what place do I have to demand the same?

I feel strongly that Christianity today has twisted biblical Justice. One read of Isaiah made me believe that God's Justice is much more concerned with upholding the rights of the underpriviledged (the "fatherless and the widow" of our time) than it is "giving someone what they deserve". If we received a taste of our own Justice, I think we would be a little slower to cast judgement.

EDIT: Spelling.

Message edited by author 2005-12-12 20:29:00.
12/12/2005 08:48:39 PM · #25
I don't know why, but I have saved this since the Carter days.

268529.jpg
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