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07/02/2003 12:22:08 AM · #1
are you giving a high score just because the picture looks nice and has nothing to do with the challenge.

or are you giving high scores to the picture that best fits the challenge.


p.s.
if you're going to get overly defensive
please don't reply

and btw. i'm not saying that my photo is the best.
so don't put words in my mouth

Message edited by author 2003-07-02 00:24:51.
07/02/2003 12:50:08 AM · #2
Well... tell you what.. I don't understand getting ones..... and tens on the same picture....lol....also...If I give a one... or a two... the picture has to be pretty bad in my estimation..the lowest score I have ever given I think is a three....my average score for the Country Challenge was 5.692... not really bad.. but when someone votes ones... on a nice picture....it amazes me
07/02/2003 12:56:47 AM · #3
Originally posted by watermelon_junkie:

are you giving a high score just because the picture looks nice and has nothing to do with the challenge.

I see very few photos here which have "nothing" to do with the challenge. I will sometimes even give "bonus points" for photos with an unusual take on the challenge, even if they are technically flawed. I guess I was brought up to give some credit for effort as well as "results."
07/02/2003 01:11:54 AM · #4
Originally posted by watermelon_junkie:

are you giving a high score just because the picture looks nice and has nothing to do with the challenge.

I don't. No matter how "great" the picture is, if it doesn't fit the challenge I subtract off 3 to 5 points depending on how much it doesn't fit, depending on how "great" I think it is.

Originally posted by watermelon_junkie:

or are you giving high scores to the picture that best fits the challenge.

Even if a pic fits the challenge perfectly, if it's not technically good (in my opinion) or otherwise creative or interesting to me, I also subtract points (but not as many as if it doesn't fit the challenge).
07/02/2003 10:38:09 AM · #5
I vote pretty much like Chris above.. I'd like to see the average vote I'd given to a challenge as I'm handing them out as I'd like to balance them to about a 5... seems the only way that I can ensure a fair spread of votes
07/02/2003 10:55:15 AM · #6
Originally posted by ChrisW123:

No matter how "great" the picture is, if it doesn't fit the challenge I subtract off 3 to 5 points depending on how much it doesn't fit, depending on how "great" I think it is.

Sadly, this attitude seems to be becoming the norm around here - the photography doesn't matter as much any more, it's becoming more and more about who can meet the challenge the best.

I vote a simple yes/no on meeting the challenge, and allow for creative interpretations, then vote on the quality of the photograph. Having degrees of meeting the challenge is getting really picky, just for the sake of being able to mark peoples hard work down as far as I can tell.

This used to be a great place to learn about photography. Now it's just a great place to learn how to be an^H^H literal.
07/02/2003 10:58:21 AM · #7
Originally posted by bod:

[quote=ChrisW123]it's becoming more and more about who can meet the challenge the best.


I thought this was the whole point of the site?
07/02/2003 11:11:17 AM · #8
Originally posted by tjuneau13:

Originally posted by bod:

it's becoming more and more about who can meet the challenge the best.


I thought this was the whole point of the site?

I thought the whole point of this site was to help each other learn to be better photographers - it used to be anyway. I am learning nothing from comments like 'you missed the challenge by a fraction'.
07/02/2003 03:20:40 PM · #9
I also think the main objective SHOULD BE to meet the challenge! The winner should meet it AND have technical excellence, originality and more......
If we are just voting on a great pic and don't vote down if it doesn't meet the challenge, then we loose the main title at the top of this page(DP Challenge-a digital photography contest).
07/02/2003 03:23:01 PM · #10
if I would give photos that don´t fit the challenge the same scores as those that do....why have challenges...why not just post something every week...the challenge IS to take a photo that FITS the theme that week.... common ppl.... if the photo doesn´t fit I mark it down...way down
07/02/2003 04:33:32 PM · #11
Obviously the challenge should be met, but I have found that some people have a VERY narrow interpretation of what a challenge is and how it should be met. I think Bod is saying that instead of being open minded and saying to themselves, "Okay, I can perhaps see how the challenge is met in a creative way here; now let's look at this engaging photograph" they say to themselves, "My idea of the challenge is x and this is not x, so I have to look no further at this photograph." In other words, some fail to recognize that challenges themselves are open to alternate and creative interpretations, viewpoints and paradigms.

Like GeneralE, I have seen very, very few images that generally do not fit the challenges, and I very often reward creativity or a creative interpretation of a challenge. After all, the great photographers in the world are those who often interpreted the world around them in creative ways and made names for themselves. If they consistently made obvious choices, they would probably not be famous or all that great.
07/02/2003 04:34:29 PM · #12
When i vote the first thing i look for is that the photo meets the challenge description. If it does not then i mark it down, it may be a great photo but it has to meet the challenge foremost.
07/02/2003 04:47:24 PM · #13
Originally posted by dsidwell:

Obviously the challenge should be met, but I have found that some people have a VERY narrow interpretation of what a challenge is and how it should be met. I think Bod is saying that instead of being open minded and saying to themselves, "Okay, I can perhaps see how the challenge is met in a creative way here; now let's look at this engaging photograph" they say to themselves, "My idea of the challenge is x and this is not x, so I have to look no further at this photograph." In other words, some fail to recognize that challenges themselves are open to alternate and creative interpretations, viewpoints and paradigms.


Thank you David, this is exactly what I meant.

Anybody else noticing the exodus of good photographers from the site at the moment? 3 today, and I left my intention to quit in the details field on my speed entry yesterday. I can't speak for the rest, but I won't be entering again until this gets back to being a photography site.

Welcome to English Interpretation Challenge.
07/02/2003 05:03:10 PM · #14
I'm off submitting for now too. And for the same basic reasons.
Both the challenge and THE PHOTOGRAPH are important (equally IMHO). Creative interpretations of the challenge should be encouraged, but the narrow attitude that prevails discourages me greatly. (Sarcastic remark backspaced - several times)
I came to this site to LEARN. To be a better photographer. To grow as a person and to associate with other's with a similar interest.
The challenge is the framework to keep the weekly photo bashing to a common theme, but not to destroy creativity.
Try being kind - truly opening your minds to alternate thinking - and a final thought - score like there's nothing to win or lose because that's all there is, a moment in the spot light.

Help each other (is that asking too much?)
07/02/2003 05:09:17 PM · #15
I must admit that it is annoying when photos get marked down just because thay don't fit the challenge to the letter. I would prefer to see a creative take on a challenge rather than hundreds of obvious choices. I sometimes have to opt for a simpler photo just because if I do something a little different I know I will get marked down for it - and that's part of the creativity out of the window.

Check out my 'blue' entry and you'll see what I mean. So many 10s yet so many 1s.

I have to say though, this is a great site- no complaints about the way it's run, just that some people should open their minds a little..

Message edited by author 2003-07-02 17:18:17.
07/02/2003 05:43:09 PM · #16
[quote=TiN]I must admit that it is annoying when photos get marked down just because thay don't fit the challenge to the letter. I would prefer to see a creative take on a challenge rather than hundreds of obvious choices. I sometimes have to opt for a simpler photo just because if I do something a little different I know I will get marked down for it - and that's part of the creativity out of the window.

Check out my 'blue' entry and you'll see what I mean. So many 10s yet so many 1s.

That one was totally blue...really good I gave it a 9...

Message edited by author 2003-07-02 17:44:28.
07/02/2003 07:20:30 PM · #17
So people are leaving because others interpret the challenge differently to them and hence mark their work down.. Come on get real.. That's like saying you don't like what I do so I'm not showing it you anymore. Grow up..

If you want to be creative in challenge interpretation ... cool.. but surely if it's on the theme and a good image most people will get it.. If you're so way off beam that you're being marked down for not hitting the challenge then you're not engaging the viewer.. and guess what your image isn't working in the confines of the challenge.. The true art of creativity IMHO is to take your viewer with you to somewhere they never thought they'd be..

As I'm new here I entered a rush image to get something in for speed.. It wasn't very good but I wanted to participate.. That's the fun for me as well as taking the shot.. So it's getting pretty low marks.. big deal I can live with that..
07/02/2003 07:21:14 PM · #18
Both are (or should be) factors in voting, altough in my opinion meeting the challenge shouldnt play such a big role in voting as it does on this website. Photos should fit the challenge topics, but it seems that people are forgetting that the main factor in voting is whether the photo is a good one or not.
07/02/2003 07:27:01 PM · #19
Originally posted by Alpine99:

So people are leaving because others interpret the challenge differently to them and hence mark their work down.. Come on get real.. That's like saying you don't like what I do so I'm not showing it you anymore. Grow up..

That's not what's being said. Take a look at my scores, I have nothing to complain about there.

I'll ignore the attempted insult if you don't mind.
07/02/2003 08:14:17 PM · #20
Meeting the challenge is a big part of this site, because the challenges are what force us all to experiment and photograph new things. Submitting a flower to every challenge cannot be acceptable.

However, I'll go full guns with bod here. If an image meets the challenge in any creative way (and is not forcing the challenge to fit a generic shot) it shouldn't be penalized.
One solution to this I think would be to encourage challenge topics to be worded in a more open ended fashion... perhaps with some topics even only providing a word or two with no further description.

Message edited by author 2003-07-02 20:14:47.
07/02/2003 09:18:31 PM · #21
Meeting the challenge is a very important aspect as far as I'm concerned. The site isn't called "DPLookAtPrettyPictures.com" it's DP CHALLENGE.

I appreciate pictures that meet the challenges in unique ways, but all too often it really appears that people may have taken a lovely shot of something during the course of the week, and then they try to shoehorn it into the challenge.

For example, it wouldn't have surprised me to see someone take a lovely sunset shot and call it "Beautiful Sunset" so that it sorta kinda fits the "Letter B" challenge. (I don't recall anyone doing that particular example, BTW, it's just the kind of thing I see all too often.)
07/02/2003 09:33:43 PM · #22
2 distinct issues here:

1) what's the point of DPCHALLENGE? Duh, it's being "challenged" to come up with something that fits a theme in a short time span - and do it well :-D

2) What *is* a challenge theme? Is it a broad canvas that we can use to play out our visions and ideas with room for metaphor, humor, alternate interpretations? Or is it a little skinny line to be walked ? Well, apparently , in the mind of the majority of voters, who also happen to be the people that comment the least (I dont know about you but I always have a huge disparity between my 'average from commenters' and my 'total votes' - commenters score me much higher usually) it's the latter.

And in my opinion, therein lies the problem. #2, not #1. So the question is - how do we address 2? Site voting guidelines, maybe?

Message edited by author 2003-07-02 23:29:01.
07/02/2003 10:40:57 PM · #23
I vote 6 points on technical merit (in my opinion) and 3 on meeting the challenge - 0 for not meeting, 1 for a stretch, 2 for an average interpretation, and a 3 for meeting the challenge in a unique and interesting way. The last point is for WOW factor to separate 9's from 10's.

I interpret the challenge very loosely. (I do admit that the Letter B challenge is very straight forward - any NOUN beginning with "B". Any ADJECTIVE beginning with a "B" will get the stretch 1. But even here, I don't know many foreign languages, so I don't know what is or is not a "B" noun in Norway.)

So by my scoring system, a great photo that absolutely does not meet the challenge is a 6. Likewise, a really bad photograph meeting the challenge in a unique way could get a 3.

In another thread, there is a discussion around people leaving the site because the challenges are too hard. I don't think so. If I leave, it will because photographic excellence is not recognized and the site looses the sense of a fun, helpful community.

Dennis (into the second margarita)
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