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DPChallenge Forums >> Challenge Results >> The ethics of cropping
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06/30/2003 03:16:34 PM · #1
My entry for the "At Work" challenge scored a 5.681 higher than my average score so I was quite pleased with that

//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=25878

A number of people commented that it would have been better zoomed out showing more of the hull here's an uncropped version

//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=26994

I wonder if I'd entered the uncropped version what score I would have received. I was supprised that no one commented on it being a model I wonder if anyone realised

Was this misleading?







06/30/2003 03:18:24 PM · #2
lol! I must admit i didnt realise it was a model. i think the crop was good to give it a false scale.
06/30/2003 03:18:53 PM · #3
HAHA Nice job. I don't think it's unethical - but it raises the possibilites for how people are doing things. Cool work.
06/30/2003 03:22:35 PM · #4
Ha! I told my wife I thought it was a model. She thought it was for real! Nice job on creating the illusion. It would not have worked as well for the challenge if it had been uncropped, imo.
06/30/2003 04:02:31 PM · #5
I think it's a good example of people asking for something with absolutely no clue of what the outcome of their request would be. It happens all the time. "I would rather see it this way" is like saying I wish you had taken a different photograph.

Everyone should assume that what they see is what the photographer intended them to see. :)
06/30/2003 04:16:50 PM · #6
Originally posted by jmsetzler:

I think it's a good example of people asking for something with absolutely no clue of what the outcome of their request would be. It happens all the time. "I would rather see it this way" is like saying I wish you had taken a different photograph.

Everyone should assume that what they see is what the photographer intended them to see. :)

I assume it is what they wanted, but I don't think that will stop me from offering an opinion of what I think may be a more effective treatment of the material I know is available. In a sense, any score of less than ten means you wish they'd taken a "different" photograph.
06/30/2003 04:34:25 PM · #7
Originally posted by Paulk:

My entry for the "At Work" challenge scored a 5.681 higher than my average score so I was quite pleased with that

//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=25878

A number of people commented that it would have been better zoomed out showing more of the hull here's an uncropped version

//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=26994

I wonder if I'd entered the uncropped version what score I would have received. I was supprised that no one commented on it being a model I wonder if anyone realised

Was this misleading?


Of course it was misleading, that is what you intended with the crop and the title. Although I do not find anything wrong with the fact that you were misleading, just amused that you ask this question.
06/30/2003 04:49:28 PM · #8
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by jmsetzler:

I think it's a good example of people asking for something with absolutely no clue of what the outcome of their request would be. It happens all the time. "I would rather see it this way" is like saying I wish you had taken a different photograph.

Everyone should assume that what they see is what the photographer intended them to see. :)

I assume it is what they wanted, but I don't think that will stop me from offering an opinion of what I think may be a more effective treatment of the material I know is available. In a sense, any score of less than ten means you wish they'd taken a "different" photograph.


I don't look at it that way. I RARELY ever suggest that a different composition be used than what I see. I will often say that I don't like the composition though. I think it's better to do this than to make myself look foolish by asking for something that I could possibly like even less. In most cases where I do ask for a different composition, it's for a tighter view rather than an wider one. I, as the viewer of the photo, can have NO idea what would be introduced into a photo if a wider view was taken. I would never want to imply that to a photographer either.

I don't believe that 'any score less than 10' implies that I want a different photograph either. Maybe to some it does, but in many cases, I simply think the existing composition could be better.

I find that my critiques are better and more consistent when I comment only on what I see in the photo rather than asking for somethign else (some unknown element) to be introduced into the image.

Message edited by author 2003-06-30 16:50:12.
06/30/2003 06:42:04 PM · #9
Originally posted by jmsetzler:

I think it's a good example of people asking for something with absolutely no clue of what the outcome of their request would be. It happens all the time. "I would rather see it this way" is like saying I wish you had taken a different photograph.

Everyone should assume that what they see is what the photographer intended them to see. :)


AMEN.

I find that many comments address changes before they address the artist's intentions.

Message edited by author 2003-06-30 18:43:36.
06/30/2003 06:56:28 PM · #10
Most of the time I'm recommend a minor cropping change, not a complete change in composition. If I ever do suggest a different angle or lighting, I make it clear that I realize such an approach may have been tried already, or not even possible. I'm not sure how this is different from commenting on tone range or focus or any other element of the total photo.

I thought part of the idea of making this a learning site was to offer constructive suggestions as to how someone's entry could be improved.

Message edited by author 2003-06-30 18:57:34.
06/30/2003 07:06:45 PM · #11
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Most of the time I'm recommend a minor cropping change, not a complete change in composition. If I ever do suggest a different angle or lighting, I make it clear that I realize such an approach may have been tried already, or not even possible. I'm not sure how this is different from commenting on tone range or focus or any other element of the total photo.

I thought part of the idea of making this a learning site was to offer constructive suggestions as to how someone's entry could be improved.


I'm all for constructive criticism. I take plenty of it myself. However, suggesting something that definitely would not work is not constructive. So, you have to be careful when making suggestions.

07/01/2003 01:20:29 AM · #12
Hahahaha, I had no idea it was a model! I can tell now. But I don't think it's wrong to suggest he zoom out, after all the comment was based on what I saw and what looked like a boat floating in the ocean... so given that, what is wrong with suggesting he zoom out to show more of the hull? Obviously if I knew his "itention" was to crop based on the fact that it was a model I wouldn't suggest he zoom out. :)
07/01/2003 03:50:46 AM · #13
I don't think there's anything wrong with what was presented, it wasn't unethical. Many shots are staged - indeed, those that aren't get the "looks snapshotty" type comments.

Neither do I think there's anything wrong with saying what you'd like to see differently. In this instance there's really not a lot of difference between saying "I think you cropped that a bit too closely for my liking" or "I think it would be nice to zoom out a bit and show more of the hull". If something is cut off and leads to intrigue about what's behind it then if the photo works well people will voice that intrigue - that's what happened here. Maybe it's not possible, but then maybe getting better focus isn't possible for whatever reason, along with corrections to a thousand other flaws - it doesn't make it a less valid criticism. It can sometimes be impossible to get the image the voter would prefer, but it isn't always. Making suggestions like this encourage a photographer to consider the issue and perhaps sometimes it's things that can be corrected in future. If it had been a real boat perhaps the photographer hadn't noticed that the backdrop to the people he was taking a picture of was a boat that was cut off - being close to the scene and eager to get the shot can lead you to forget things sometimes. I see nothing wrong with voters asking for something other than the picture that was presented. If 20 voters say "I'd rather have a different picture" and their preference is for the same thing in terms of composition then that's a good indicator that the picture didn't work as intended and what should be improved upon in future.
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