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11/16/2005 03:15:17 PM · #1
just wanted to say how much I hate when people hide their profiles during voting. If you are going to give useless criticism, show who you are. What are people gaining by hiding their profile. Kind of weak in my opinion.
11/16/2005 03:19:30 PM · #2
Freedom from having to receive/read rebuttals during voting. I've notice no correlation between "bagheads" and "useless comments" in voting on my images, for what it's worth. This isn't a battle that's worth fighting IMO. Voting is anonymous; I see no reason why one shouldn't opt for anonymous commenting during the challenge, if this is one's preference.

Robt.
11/16/2005 03:20:33 PM · #3
Useless criticism is useless criticism whether you know who said it or not. And anyway, what would you do if you knew who it was? Send them a nasty PM or call them out in the forums? Seems to me that those are two of the main reasons people (including myself) do "put on the bag" when they vote.

But I have a better idea for you: why don't you sit back and actually read the comment, see if any of it applies to your picture, and if it does, see if you might actually learn from it. If it doesn't apply, even after you've thought it through, then just ignore the comment.
11/16/2005 03:21:16 PM · #4
There are some very valid reasons for hiding your profile during voting, I think.

While making comments on the Garbage and Landscape challenges I hid my profile for the first time as there are several pictures on my profile page in my highest scoring picture group (that one can't hide or change) that would have given my entry in the Landscape challenge away as it was so similar. Keeping your entry anonymous is very important, I think, anyway.
11/16/2005 03:30:33 PM · #5
Originally posted by Jmnuggy:

just wanted to say how much I hate when people hide their profiles during voting. If you are going to give useless criticism, show who you are. What are people gaining by hiding their profile. Kind of weak in my opinion.


My opinion is that it's kind of weak to be bad mouthing someone simply because they took advantage of one of the options the site offers. Actually, I think it would be better if all comments were anonymous until after voting is finished.
11/16/2005 03:32:58 PM · #6
I personally don't like the whole hidden profiles thingy too, but I know of another good reason for it, since the actual score is supposed to be anonymous, if you're voting and commenting on photos during the very early stages of voting, then your vote isn't going to be anonymous, cause if you have only 1 vote and 1 comment then you pretty much know what the vote was, and if you're actively using the update button and getting more votes with more comments then you can still figure out the vote that each commenter gave you.
11/16/2005 03:39:37 PM · #7
When the voting stage is over you will know who it is anyways. The reason poeple use the bag over the head is that they don't want to receive PM's.
11/16/2005 03:44:44 PM · #8
I am one of those people who has in the past, and may in the future, choose to be anonymous during voting, solely because I disliked being challenged on my comments during the voting - a process which compromises the anonymous nature of the voting. It's not because I'm lame, or chicken, or just want to leave nasty comments, it's because I value the anonymous nature of the voting process.
11/16/2005 03:49:16 PM · #9
Originally posted by Jmnuggy:

just wanted to say how much I hate when people hide their profiles during voting. If you are going to give useless criticism, show who you are. What are people gaining by hiding their profile. Kind of weak in my opinion.


Well, "I" agree with you, LOL..if no one else does, and I will tell you why. I had several anon's actually ask questions about my entry. Now, they were valid questions, but how am I supposed to answer to ghosts? Not only that, but if they are going to leave a negative message, then why not step up to the plate and be ready to be PM'd about it? Whats the worry? PM'ing is ALSO another option this site gives and so what is good for the goose....well, you get the idea. No one should be hiding for any reason, IMO. IF we are all adults, then there is no reason to hide during voting. If you are not an adult or act like one, then you shouldn't be here. Period.

Rose
11/16/2005 03:50:17 PM · #10
Originally posted by strangeghost:

I am one of those people who has in the past, and may in the future, choose to be anonymous during voting, solely because I disliked being challenged on my comments during the voting - a process which compromises the anonymous nature of the voting. It's not because I'm lame, or chicken, or just want to leave nasty comments, it's because I value the anonymous nature of the voting process.


Ditto that.


11/16/2005 04:01:10 PM · #11
Originally posted by strangeghost:

I am one of those people who has in the past, and may in the future, choose to be anonymous during voting, solely because I disliked being challenged on my comments during the voting - a process which compromises the anonymous nature of the voting. It's not because I'm lame, or chicken, or just want to leave nasty comments, it's because I value the anonymous nature of the voting process.


Yes, but what is the value of the anon nature of the voting process? That you don't want to be questioned about your comment? You find that a compromise? I would rather not make a comment then make one anon. I have no problem with PM's in question, and have had them before. You answer or explain and you move on. From what I understand though, you can always put it in your profile that you don't wish to be contacted, and others should respect that. However, I don't use either or. If I make a comment, I stand up to the plate. I just don't see the reasons for not doing it. The day I do, I won't vote or comment at all.

Rose
11/16/2005 04:04:31 PM · #12
I have had it in my profile that I'd prefer not to be contacted during the challenge voting period, but it never seemed to do any good. After the voting period is over, my identity will be revealed, and if the person wishes to, he/she can contact me then. That is the way I prefer it, NOT while voting is still going on. Just my personal preference, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Originally posted by Rose8699:

Originally posted by strangeghost:

I am one of those people who has in the past, and may in the future, choose to be anonymous during voting, solely because I disliked being challenged on my comments during the voting - a process which compromises the anonymous nature of the voting. It's not because I'm lame, or chicken, or just want to leave nasty comments, it's because I value the anonymous nature of the voting process.


Yes, but what is the value of the anon nature of the voting process? That you don't want to be questioned about your comment? You find that a compromise? I would rather not make a comment then make one anon. I have no problem with PM's in question, and have had them before. You answer or explain and you move on. From what I understand though, you can always put it in your profile that you don't wish to be contacted, and others should respect that. However, I don't use either or. If I make a comment, I stand up to the plate. I just don't see the reasons for not doing it. The day I do, I won't vote or comment at all.

Rose
11/16/2005 04:05:09 PM · #13
Originally posted by Rose8699:

If I make a comment, I stand up to the plate. I just don't see the reasons for not doing it. The day I do, I won't vote or comment at all.

Rose


That's not the issue, Rose. All bagheads can be "called to accountability" after the challenge ends. The history here is that significant number of people were disturbed that responses to their comments during the challenge were detracting from the anonymity of the image. Some people, for example, change their votes on second/third passes through the entries, and knowing the identity of a photographer might compromise their objectivity.

Robt.
11/16/2005 04:05:36 PM · #14
Originally posted by Rose8699:

Yes, but what is the value of the anon nature of the voting process? That you don't want to be questioned about your comment? You find that a compromise? I would rather not make a comment then make one anon. I have no problem with PM's in question, and have had them before. You answer or explain and you move on. From what I understand though, you can always put it in your profile that you don't wish to be contacted, and others should respect that. However, I don't use either or. If I make a comment, I stand up to the plate. I just don't see the reasons for not doing it. The day I do, I won't vote or comment at all.

Rose


That's your choice. Many people prefer the voting process to be anonymous as it can be easier to more fairly judge a photo when there isn't a personality attached. They aren't interested in explanations about how you think your photo fits the challenge or rebuttals of what comments they've left. If you have a burning desire to say something to an anonymous commenter, wait until the voting is over and they're disclosed and see if it's still that important. If it is, then go right ahead. There's really no need to leave instructions in your profile because this feature of the site provides for that.
11/16/2005 04:07:13 PM · #15
Originally posted by Rose8699:


Well, "I" agree with you, LOL..if no one else does, and I will tell you why. I had several anon's actually ask questions about my entry. Now, they were valid questions, but how am I supposed to answer to ghosts? Not only that, but if they are going to leave a negative message, then why not step up to the plate and be ready to be PM'd about it? Whats the worry? PM'ing is ALSO another option this site gives and so what is good for the goose....well, you get the idea. No one should be hiding for any reason, IMO. IF we are all adults, then there is no reason to hide during voting. If you are not an adult or act like one, then you shouldn't be here. Period.

Rose


Well how about looking at it this way... What if the questions asked during commenting were not meant to be answered, but were instead intended to make you think or to point out something that you had perhaps not thought about?
As far as not wanting to be PM'd during voting goes, it's not just the people who send out nasty PM's. It's also dealing with people who try to get you to change your vote by explaining their photo, giving background on the photo, or just plain out whining, which is almost as annoying as the flaming PM's.
11/16/2005 04:17:27 PM · #16
My profile is hidden. Many months ago I commented on image that I felt had several issues. The person emailed me back raising all kind of #$@%. Telling me I did not have a clue ect ect ect. I began to feel bad, yet after all was done and I was able to review his other comments I found that I hit it on the nose. Since that time I had my profile hidden . If I make a wrong call on my opinion, so be it. Every challenge I review my votes and compare them with the rest to see how I do with the norm.
11/16/2005 04:22:39 PM · #17
sometimes I want to see the profile of someone leaving a message. I would never PM someone to badmouth, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I want to know if the person 1. is a photographer and 2. I would like to see their images. This is because I would like to know where criticism is coming from.

To me someone's profile is the only way we know if they are in fact knowledgeable. If I get advice from someone with pictures all around 3 as a score, I may not be as likely to take what they say seriously, now if someone leaves me advice and they have ribbons and amazing pictures, I would take them a bit more seriously. Your profile is your photographic resume, it states instantly if you are capable of giving advice.

There is no activity/sport/profession in which beginners teach or offer constructive critism, why should this be different.
11/16/2005 04:24:58 PM · #18
And there's absolutely no reason that can't be done after the voting period and after you've had a chance to digest the comment.
After all, even an inexperienced photographer can have a valid opinion about something... Does one need perfect pitch to love, appreciate, and comment upon a piece of music?

Message edited by author 2005-11-16 16:26:03.
11/16/2005 04:29:25 PM · #19
Originally posted by Jmnuggy:

There is no activity/sport/profession in which beginners teach or offer constructive critism, why should this be different.


Sure there are. Ever critique a movie you saw? A meal you ate? A book you read? Most people have, even though they aren't filmmakers, chefs or writers. You don't necessarily have to be able to replicate something yourself to know what you like. Which isn't to say that it's not sometimes helpful to view the portfolio of a commenter, but lack of ability shouldn't necessarily mean an instant discredit.
11/16/2005 04:33:32 PM · #20
Originally posted by Jmnuggy:

There is no activity/sport/profession in which beginners teach or offer constructive critism, why should this be different.


This would only be valid if your intended audience were limited to those knowledgeable in your subject. The DPC audience is all of us, en masse. The votes you receive come from beginner and expert alike. Why shouldn't your comments as well? It should be of considerable interest to you to see how a spectrum of people perceive your work.

Robt.
11/16/2005 04:34:29 PM · #21
Originally posted by saracat:

And there's absolutely no reason that can't be done after the voting period and after you've had a chance to digest the comment.
After all, even an inexperienced photographer can have a valid opinion about something... Does one need perfect pitch to love, appreciate, and comment upon a piece of music?


I think I will try exposing myself again. I too look at the profiles of the people who comment.
11/16/2005 04:34:49 PM · #22
Originally posted by Jmnuggy:


There is no activity/sport/profession in which beginners teach or offer constructive critism, why should this be different.


I disagree. Ask a child thier honest opinion on something, and it will probably be the most valuable critique you will get in just about any genre.
11/16/2005 04:38:29 PM · #23
I have 6 comments on my current Triptych three of which are bagged. Thankfully these are all positive but I have had some negative bagged comments, so long as these are constructive (negative) criticisms then bagged or not I can learn from them.
While I do take this whole challenge thing seriously and launching into a tirade of @!*Ē!!# isnít my thing, people are fully entitled to their opinion.
11/16/2005 04:47:09 PM · #24
people are missing the point, obviously people who are not experts do make their opinions known in a lot of things. But how often do you critique a movie to the filmaker, or how often do you take a child's advice to heart. You don't take a class from a beginner. I can comment on how much I hated a Spielberg film, but that doesn't mean he is going to listen.

Im just saying if you have something to say, say it and stand by it, there is no need to hide identities.

By the way, this thread isn't out of spite, my photo is doing fairly well as of now.
11/16/2005 04:55:11 PM · #25
Ya know, I used to think it was lame to leave comments under an anonymous "bag", but I have since changed my mind. The purpose of this site is to promote unbiased critiques on your photography, so your response to anyone's comment is really secondary to their score (i.e., it shouldn't affect their initial impression). And after receiving some rather emotional appeals based upon comments I have made on challenge entries myself, I completely understand why someone would prefer to remain anonymous until the voting period is over. I mean after all, the response isn't going to change, nor should the vote, so why not take some weight off of the commenter...

BTW: I still don't wear a bag, but I don't have ANY qualms about those who do... In fact, I think they probably have fewer ulcers than I do! LOL

EDIT: I want to receive comments from EVERYONE, regardless of what they feel about my image - as long as they feel something! So, keep on commenting as far as I'm concerned, the more the better! :-)

Message edited by author 2005-11-16 16:56:35.
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