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11/16/2005 09:36:16 AM · #51 |
Originally posted by photodude:
Matt... While the law may technically be on your side, let's face it we are all terrified of Islamic terrorism. Thus far we have given up our own rights and changed our behaviors in order to at least have the perception of safety.
It is my hope that we will all get tired of it eventually and do what we should have done on 9/12/01 - stop issuing visas of any type to citizens of terrorist nations, and revoke all of the existing ones. Once the citizens of terrorist nations are out of the USA, we can go back to being a free society again. |
Whoa! Been watching too much Fox? Terrorist Nations? The last two biggest terrorist attacks on US soil were by Saudi- and US citizens.
And I wouldn't feel much safe if I were in constant fear of having my properties confiscated by some police brute.
If that were the case, the terrorists have already won.
/flame on!
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11/16/2005 09:38:21 AM · #52 |
I was hassled recently while taking some night shots of a refinery. I was across the road on public property and two SUV's with guards from the plant showed up and wanted to know what I was doing and why. I was polite and they were polite in kind.
They asked if they could see the images and I agreed (whether I had to or not). Once they verified that the refinery was in fact, in the photos, they asked that I delete the images. They explained that if I didn't (and they knew they had no right to force the issue), they would have to file an incident report with the FBI and I might expect someone to come knocking at my door. I politely refused and told them that if the FBI wanted to spend their time and money investigating me, then it was their choice because I had nothing to hide.
They took my information and left. That was 6 weeks ago and I have not heard anything yet - although I suppose each of my keystrokes might be being monitored as I type this.
While I understand the increased sensitivity here, the thing I find most disconcerting about these issues of infringements on photographers rights is that if anyone wanted images for terrorism purposes, it would be increadibly easy to take them without anyone noticing. In this case, anyone driving down the road and hanging a camera out of the window would have gotten more detailed close-ups than I did standing on a hill a quarter-mile away.
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11/16/2005 09:46:16 AM · #53 |
I'm surprised you even gave them your information.
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11/16/2005 10:04:07 AM · #54 |
Last year I had a 2 hour stopover at some US airport (don't remember :-P). I had all my gear with me and I wanted to take photos of planes but I kewn better than to just pull out my gear and start snapping away. I approached a security gard and asked him if it was ok to take a few shots of the planes through the window. He called his supervisor, who checked my passport and boarding pass, then gave me permission to shoot all I wanted.
Maybe I was just lucky, but I think that if you take the time to ask, problems just seem to disapear. :-)
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11/16/2005 10:13:18 AM · #55 |
Originally posted by kosmikkreeper:
Last year I had a 2 hour stopover at some US airport (don't remember :-P). I had all my gear with me and I wanted to take photos of planes but I kewn better than to just pull out my gear and start snapping away. I approached a security gard and asked him if it was ok to take a few shots of the planes through the window. He called his supervisor, who checked my passport and boarding pass, then gave me permission to shoot all I wanted.
Maybe I was just lucky, but I think that if you take the time to ask, problems just seem to disapear. :-) |
I had the same experience on a field trip to a dam yesterday. Their staff agreed the whole security thing (regarding cameras) was being overblown, even as a work crew was installing new security gates on the road up to the top : ) |
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11/16/2005 10:14:17 AM · #56 |
Originally posted by photodude:
Originally posted by Riponlady:
Originally posted by photodude:
It is my hope that we will all get tired of it eventually and do what we should have done on 9/12/01 - stop issuing visas of any type to citizens of terrorist nations, and revoke all of the existing ones. Once the citizens of terrorist nations are out of the USA, we can go back to being a free society again. |
I KNOW I should ignore this but please let's not bring this type of bigoted response into every thread that deals in any shape or form with the law, freedom of society, foreigners, the price of fuel or the best place to buy a tripod!!!!
Keep it for the rant section!
P |
This is not a "bigoted" statement. We are at war with these people. They threaten our way of life and perhaps our very existance. During WWII, were we letting in German and Japanese tourists or students?
If you don't live in a major metropolitan area, it's easy to feel safe and say it doesn't matter. But if you do, you are a target, you have to live with annoying intrusions on your basic liberty and freedom (which really won't do much good in the end), and you know that these people are here - legally in many cases.
So get off the politically correct soapbox. They are the enemy and we need to start thinking that way. And BTW, this is in Rant. |
While your at it, why don't you go and reopen all those internement camps, throw anyone and everyone in there who is from a terrorist country, and their families, and kids, and any one related to them in the most remote way. That will prevent all terrorist attacks. I can't believe you think that just because someone is from somewhere, that automatically makes them a terrorist threat. Oh no! Maybe you made a phone call to one of these people! Off to the internment camp you go. |
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11/16/2005 10:18:33 AM · #57 |
photodude -- Please remind me, to what country would you have deported Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nicholls?
And why is it OK for us to go around bombing people we don't like (15-80,000 Iraqi civilians dead so far) but it's somehow immoral when other people do it?
Message edited by author 2005-11-16 10:21:50. |
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11/16/2005 10:38:07 AM · #58 |
I believe that Israel is trying to stem terrorism within their borders by excluding or controlling the whereabouts of individuals whose nationality is suspect. At the same time, the state pursues vigorous military action in territory outside its borders against the terrorists.
But strangely, this policy appears to be provoking a certain amount of resentment and the threat of terror has not gone away...
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11/16/2005 10:51:10 AM · #59 |
I know, simply, what causes people to become terrorists.
THE HEAT
Hot climates drive people crazy, especially if they don't have air conditioning. If there are a lot of hot nights, and they can't get enough sleep, lookout! Sleep deprivation and relentless heat, a dangerous combination.
So remember, crank up that A/C at night and get your rest, or you might find yourself very grumpy.
My easy solution to do away with terrorism.... central air in every home! It might take a generation to iron out the lunacy, but it would pay off big time.
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11/16/2005 10:58:08 AM · #60 |
Hey Matthew, have there been any new developments in this incident? Did you get your CF card back yet?
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11/16/2005 11:17:56 AM · #61 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
I know, simply, what causes people to become terrorists.
THE HEAT
Hot climates drive people crazy, especially if they don't have air conditioning. If there are a lot of hot nights, and they can't get enough sleep, lookout! Sleep deprivation and relentless heat, a dangerous combination.
So remember, crank up that A/C at night and get your rest, or you might find yourself very grumpy.
My easy solution to do away with terrorism.... central air in every home! It might take a generation to iron out the lunacy, but it would pay off big time. |
Booo Slippy. If you do that, the A/C will spit so much CFC's into the air, global warming will accelerate, and then the whole world will be HOT and then we will all be terrorists! :P |
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11/16/2005 12:14:13 PM · #62 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
I know, simply, what causes people to become terrorists.
THE HEAT
Hot climates drive people crazy, especially if they don't have air conditioning. If there are a lot of hot nights, and they can't get enough sleep, lookout! Sleep deprivation and relentless heat, a dangerous combination.
So remember, crank up that A/C at night and get your rest, or you might find yourself very grumpy.
My easy solution to do away with terrorism.... central air in every home! It might take a generation to iron out the lunacy, but it would pay off big time. |
If everyone in Ontario took your advice noone would actually have air conditioning since the grid would be down more than it's up.
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11/16/2005 12:19:01 PM · #63 |
| This might explain why there are so few Canadian terrorists... ;) |
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11/16/2005 12:24:35 PM · #64 |
Originally posted by theSaj:
This might explain why there are so few Canadian terrorists... ;) |
Unfortunately it didn't work in Yorkshire!
:(
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11/16/2005 06:16:13 PM · #65 |
Originally posted by micknewton:
Hey Matthew, have there been any new developments in this incident? Did you get your CF card back yet? |
Way to go guys, I think you scared him away. Or, maybe he went down to the cop shop to demand his card back and they threw him in the cell with his card. 8^|
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11/16/2005 10:33:06 PM · #66 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
photodude -- Please remind me, to what country would you have deported Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nicholls?
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Please remind us, why would it have been necessary to deport McVeigh ANYWHRERE on 09-12-2001, since he had departed this world for that great big fertilizer truck in the sky about 3 months previously? That's the problem with knee-jerk replies; sometimes they happen too quickly, with insufficient study to the message being replied to. |
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11/16/2005 10:41:37 PM · #67 |
Originally posted by pidge:
Booo Slippy. If you do that, the A/C will spit so much CFC's into the air, global warming will accelerate, and then the whole world will be HOT and then we will all be terrorists! :P |
I'm pretty sure they don't use CFCs in air conditioners anymore...
Robt. |
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11/16/2005 10:46:26 PM · #68 |
McVeigh's execution was the fastest for anything of the sort and with all the questions, it is obvious it was meant to silence people.
Now, Terry Nichols tells feds that there was a whole nother stockpile. And FBI rejected the claims until finally pressure was made - sure enough they find it.
There were numerous reports on that day of a Arab man scene, John Doe III. A man was detained and questioned but he claimed profiling and they released him due to lack of evidence. (Said individual's last known where abouts? Boston Logan airport 9-11.)
Now new evidence that some of the explosive equipment were acquired thru a botched FBI sting operation.
Claims of contact between Timoty McVeigh and a member of the Iraqi Republican guard. And if the idea of white supremacists working with Arabs seems outrageous? Realize they have found several cases of such...why? because they have a common cause...both the white supremacist groups and the extremist muslims are opposed to the Jew.
The Oklahoma Bombing was one of the biggest government cover-ups ever. I find it funny - everyone keeps saying regards to 9-11 "What did the president know and when did he know it?" Funny, I'd like to know that answer from the prior administration.
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11/16/2005 10:46:26 PM · #69 |
Originally posted by bear_music:
Originally posted by pidge:
Booo Slippy. If you do that, the A/C will spit so much CFC's into the air, global warming will accelerate, and then the whole world will be HOT and then we will all be terrorists! :P |
I'm pretty sure they don't use CFCs in air conditioners anymore...
Robt. |
some stuff about cfcs
In the modern fleet, yes, but there is still a huge number of older vehicles in use throughout the world. Also, I think CFC's are emitted in the making of a/c units. |
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11/16/2005 11:36:26 PM · #70 |
I was on vacation in NY last month. I stopped in Albany, to walk around the city. I was standing on the sidewalk looking at the courthouse, thinking on how I was going to compose the shot when a cop and security gaurd stopped me. I wasn't even taking any pictures. After grilling my for a few minutes they said I can't stand in front of the state courthouse, and told me to move along.
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11/17/2005 12:16:58 AM · #71 |
Originally posted by theSaj:
McVeigh's execution was the fastest for anything of the sort and with all the questions, it is obvious it was meant to silence people.
Now, Terry Nichols tells feds that there was a whole nother stockpile. And FBI rejected the claims until finally pressure was made - sure enough they find it.
There were numerous reports on that day of a Arab man scene, John Doe III. A man was detained and questioned but he claimed profiling and they released him due to lack of evidence. (Said individual's last known where abouts? Boston Logan airport 9-11.)
Now new evidence that some of the explosive equipment were acquired thru a botched FBI sting operation.
Claims of contact between Timoty McVeigh and a member of the Iraqi Republican guard. And if the idea of white supremacists working with Arabs seems outrageous? Realize they have found several cases of such...why? because they have a common cause...both the white supremacist groups and the extremist muslims are opposed to the Jew.
The Oklahoma Bombing was one of the biggest government cover-ups ever. I find it funny - everyone keeps saying regards to 9-11 "What did the president know and when did he know it?" Funny, I'd like to know that answer from the prior administration. |
Don't attack me for this, but I think one reason nobody questioned the prior administration was because the Oklahoma bombings didn't result in a war overseas. Just a thought
Godd night |
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11/17/2005 02:00:21 AM · #72 |
Originally posted by frychikn:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
photodude -- Please remind me, to what country would you have deported Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nicholls?
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Please remind us, why would it have been necessary to deport McVeigh ANYWHRERE on 09-12-2001, since he had departed this world for that great big fertilizer truck in the sky about 3 months previously? That's the problem with knee-jerk replies; sometimes they happen too quickly, with insufficient study to the message being replied to. |
Who said anything about after any specific date? The statement I was responding to was a suggestion that we deport "potential terrorists" before they can act -- I was pointing out that such a strategy won't work when the terrorist is one of your native-born citizens. |
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11/17/2005 02:48:09 AM · #73 |
Originally posted by MQuinn:
Like I said I still don't see the link.. Between terrorist and photo's hows one the same. BTW it was on public property post road.. |
A terrorist quite probably visit a future target to look for weaknesses, time schedules, find the best placement of a bomb. Or maybe even photograph employees to figure out the best plan. I'm sure there are other things as well that would make photos advantageous to a terrorist.
I think they've uncovered a few terrorist plots that had photographs of possible targets.
Originally posted by theSaj:
Maybe, maybe a helluva lot more of us need to go to jail. Cause frankly, I am tired of elderly women with no probable cause being strip searched and hounded for an hour and muslims of arabic descent walking thru untouched because of policies that only allow them to search 1-in-3 so as not to be accused of profiling.
Well, that's simply stupid. If you have a murder and witnesses say "it was a short white guy" you don't stop every "tall black man" just to be fair. |
I think you're on to something. Let's just search every single person and be done with it. (FYI I'm being serious)
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
The next morning a cop woke us up... she didn't speak a word of English, my French is barely passable, I only had on my gitches, she was totally HOT! |
Three words - Menage a trois.
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
My easy solution to do away with terrorism.... central air in every home! It might take a generation to iron out the lunacy, but it would pay off big time. |
What if we reverse everyone's A/C and pump all that heat into one big building... We'll cool the whole planet at once!
Originally posted by frychikn:
Please remind us, why would it have been necessary to deport McVeigh ANYWHRERE on 09-12-2001, since he had departed this world for that great big fertilizer truck in the sky about 3 months previously? That's the problem with knee-jerk replies; sometimes they happen too quickly, with insufficient study to the message being replied to. |
Talk about not studying the message... you completely missed the point.
-----
MQuinn - Where in Minnesota are you? I live in Duluth and have Homeland Security contacted for taking photographs of the harbor.
Message edited by author 2005-11-17 03:31:27. |
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11/17/2005 08:22:22 AM · #74 |
Originally posted by MQuinn:
I finally agreed to give them the storage card that was in the camera. |
Why didn't you just erase the card instead? Would this not suffice?
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11/17/2005 11:50:09 AM · #75 |
I'm getting the card back YA! They sending out in the mail. But man what a damn run around! I really wish I had that printout of the photographers rights at the time. I talked to an attorney monday morning, I was told that it wasn't legal for them to take my card or camera. Hind sight being 20/20 I should handled this a whole different way, I shouldn't have givin the first cop the attidude, and short none discript answers. I think I could have avoided it If I simply said when I was asked "What are you doing" I should have just said taking pictures with my new camera, here check it out, even try it. So after many phone tag conversations I get my card back.
But I can't help but wonder, now if a true terrorist "wanted to take pictures" would they use a big dSLR?! |
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