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11/13/2005 10:29:24 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by theSaj:
Originally posted by mavrik:
You'd be in jail tonight however.
M |
Not true, in fact, most cases I have heard where people have stood up for their rights. Demanding supervisors or higher level employees/police. It has ended in their favor. |
I'd actually go down to the precinct and press theft charges against officer of said badge #. If they did not provide charges, or any significant suspicians. Nor, returned your goods after any verification of suspicions. They need to either "arrest you as a terrorist" or "return your property". If they do not, then the officers have in fact "stolen" you're property. File a charge. Officers are not above the law. |
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11/13/2005 10:31:07 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by theSaj:
Not true, in fact, most cases I have heard where people have stood up for their rights. Demanding supervisors or higher level employees/police. It has ended in their favor. |
If the cops said "hand over that memory card!" and demanded it and you didn't hand it over, you think you wouldn't see the inside of a jail cell?
ROFL
Where have you been since 9/11? Surely not Connecticut, NY or the USA.
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11/13/2005 10:47:47 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by theSaj:
Originally posted by theSaj:
Originally posted by mavrik:
You'd be in jail tonight however.
M |
Not true, in fact, most cases I have heard where people have stood up for their rights. Demanding supervisors or higher level employees/police. It has ended in their favor. |
I'd actually go down to the precinct and press theft charges against officer of said badge #. If they did not provide charges, or any significant suspicians. Nor, returned your goods after any verification of suspicions. They need to either "arrest you as a terrorist" or "return your property". If they do not, then the officers have in fact "stolen" you're property. File a charge. Officers are not above the law. |
Saj...It happens every once and awhile... I agree fully with you... This would be my tact
Message edited by author 2005-11-13 22:48:18. |
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11/13/2005 10:59:56 PM · #29 |
| If it happens again, to anyone, maybe it would have saved your card to simply suggest to the officer that you'd be happy to delete all the files on the card? Just a thought. |
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11/13/2005 11:11:28 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by MQuinn:
When the heck did it change, I mean come on! Went up to the local airport to take pictures, set up the tripod, broke out the new camera. I was like a kid in a candy store taking pictures of airplanes landing and taking off. Forty five minutes into it an officer of the law pulls up, starts asking me questions. After a bunch of no sir, yes sir questions, I told him I just got a new camera and always wanted to take pictures of airplanes taking off and landing. Few minutes later another officer of the law shows up, hes a little more forceful, tells me he wants my film or storage device. WTF! I asked why he said its suspisus for someone taking photos of airplanes. Granted I had been taking photos of planes taking off, there was nothing saying that is banned anywhere on this area. Has society changed that much!? I guess I can see somewhat of the reasoning but this is going to far. BTW the officer originally wanted to take my whole camera. |
Matt... While the law may technically be on your side, let's face it we are all terrified of Islamic terrorism. Thus far we have given up our own rights and changed our behaviors in order to at least have the perception of safety.
It is my hope that we will all get tired of it eventually and do what we should have done on 9/12/01 - stop issuing visas of any type to citizens of terrorist nations, and revoke all of the existing ones. Once the citizens of terrorist nations are out of the USA, we can go back to being a free society again. |
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11/13/2005 11:19:15 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by mavrik:
Originally posted by theSaj:
Not true, in fact, most cases I have heard where people have stood up for their rights. Demanding supervisors or higher level employees/police. It has ended in their favor. |
If the cops said "hand over that memory card!" and demanded it and you didn't hand it over, you think you wouldn't see the inside of a jail cell?
ROFL
Where have you been since 9/11? Surely not Connecticut, NY or the USA. |
No, but rest assured....if they did throw me in jail i would truly fight via the legal system tooth and nail. And if that failed i would fight with retribution. This is a cause worth dying for....or it will eventually become so if we do not stand firm on our freedoms and rights. We will die for it... |
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11/13/2005 11:24:31 PM · #32 |
I agree that they were wrong - but if you told them to come back with a warrant, you would be in jail.
The truth of the matter is, they don't need a warrant. They need probable cause. Probable cause when talking "photos of airplanes in the US" after 911 is "he was taking a photo of a plane" that's probable cause. You would be in jail if they wanted you there. Sucks, but truth.
(Note - the law was the same before 911, just not the suspicion)
M
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11/14/2005 12:56:08 AM · #33 |
| Pathetic - Please make sure you get to talk to the OIC at the station and higher as necessary. I would also discuss with the local poli though it will prob not help. Makes me sick when power mad/stupid police do this but it's a fact of life now day. So sad really... |
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11/15/2005 02:35:11 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by robs:
Pathetic - Please make sure you get to talk to the OIC at the station and higher as necessary. I would also discuss with the local poli though it will prob not help. Makes me sick when power mad/stupid police do this but it's a fact of life now day. So sad really... |
Some police personnel *may* be "stupid" ( just like in any other profession ), but I doubt that this has anything to do with the police being "power mad". They have a duty to protect the citizenry and investigate behaviours that are "suspicious" in nature, and post-9/11 there are many more activities that are "suspicious" than there were pre-9/11. Zealous they may be, but I'd rather have that than apathy. |
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11/15/2005 02:44:24 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by photodude:
It is my hope that we will all get tired of it eventually and do what we should have done on 9/12/01 - stop issuing visas of any type to citizens of terrorist nations, and revoke all of the existing ones. Once the citizens of terrorist nations are out of the USA, we can go back to being a free society again. |
I KNOW I should ignore this but please let's not bring this type of bigoted response into every thread that deals in any shape or form with the law, freedom of society, foreigners, the price of fuel or the best place to buy a tripod!!!!
Keep it for the rant section!
P
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11/15/2005 03:05:24 PM · #36 |
"but if you told them to come back with a warrant, you would be in jail."
Maybe, maybe a helluva lot more of us need to go to jail. Cause frankly, I am tired of elderly women with no probable cause being strip searched and hounded for an hour and muslims of arabic descent walking thru untouched because of policies that only allow them to search 1-in-3 so as not to be accused of profiling.
Well, that's simply stupid. If you have a murder and witnesses say "it was a short white guy" you don't stop every "tall black man" just to be fair.
Enough pandering. ALL HIGH PROFILE individuals should receive HIGH SCRUTINY and all general public should receive GENERAL SCRUTINY. If a short italian guy was the murderer and was seen driving into the airport. And me, being a short italian guy is pulled aside and told "we have a APB out for a short white male of italian/mediterranean heritage" do you mind if we ask you some questions? do you have ID? etc.
Am I going to be offended....nope. Cause it's reasonable. People are getting annoyed of the unreasonable. (ie: it was a few days before I even knew that the incident's in paris and the riots involved muslim youth as the few articles I read seemed to leave this rather relevant fact out). Enough pandering.
Don't don't tell me it's bigoted. Because the media has no problem putting in big headlines and emphasising such stuff if the perpetrators were christians or mormons, etc.
If we're going to reach the point where we cannot even take pictures of the Statue of Liberty, we might as well tear her down. And surrender to extremists.
Message edited by author 2005-11-15 15:05:37. |
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11/15/2005 03:12:36 PM · #37 |
I've often wondered if you offered to erase the images if they would still let you go, if so I'd hit erase (not format) and show them the card is empty then go home and hope my recovery software is working. Even if it isn't it would be better than losing my card or maybe going to jail. Granted you may have to get one that isn't so technically savy that doesn't know you can and know how to recover your images.
While I don't agree that you should have to give up your card I do agree that people should be approached and questioned as long as you and your personal items are still respected. I was actually stopped when an officer saw me on a hill shooting a sunrise, when I told him what I was doing he actually told me of a better location to try and left it at that...he was right it was much better. I had another pull over next to my car after he passed me shooting next to a main road but as I walked back to my car he must have noticed what I was doing cause he just left.
Good luck, hope you get your card back soon...if not I'll trade you one for your new camera...man I love that one. ;)
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11/15/2005 03:16:24 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by MQuinn:
When the heck did it change, I mean come on! Went up to the local airport to take pictures, set up the tripod, broke out the new camera. I was like a kid in a candy store taking pictures of airplanes landing and taking off. Forty five minutes into it an officer of the law pulls up, starts asking me questions. After a bunch of no sir, yes sir questions, I told him I just got a new camera and always wanted to take pictures of airplanes taking off and landing. Few minutes later another officer of the law shows up, hes a little more forceful, tells me he wants my film or storage device. WTF! I asked why he said its suspisus for someone taking photos of airplanes. Granted I had been taking photos of planes taking off, there was nothing saying that is banned anywhere on this area. Has society changed that much!? I guess I can see somewhat of the reasoning but this is going to far. BTW the officer originally wanted to take my whole camera. |
As an adult you can choose to follow whatever advice you choose. I would be seeking the advice of a local attorney, one who perhaps defended police officers in your area. They would have the best information for you and could likely resolve the matter with a phone call.
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11/15/2005 03:28:58 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by sabphoto:
I do agree that people should be approached and questioned as long as you and your personal items are still respected |
I concur...I feel that is doing my part. I was outside of Circuit City and saw a beautiful sunset. I actually had my DSLR. So I got it out and started to take a picture. A minute later I was being questioned by a police officer. (Due to the "trains" in the foreground.) After showing her ID, registration, etc. She seemed consoled that all was well. However, the sunset was gone. Bummer. Annoyed. Bothered. Inconvenienced. Sorta Yes...but not really as I understood. And she was respectful and no real harm was done.
However, if a police officer tried to take my $200 microdrive without warrant - no...I am not going to capitulate. |
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11/15/2005 03:36:43 PM · #40 |
This is happening more and more in these troubled times. You were in a very awkward position. Police can be very intimidating so I can understand you doing what you did. Did you get a receipt for the goods you handed over? I hope so. As for refusing them.,I dont know if the incident happened where you live locally but I would tread very carefully in how you handle your response. You need to be polite and courtious when you make your complaint, taking someone with you would be a good idea.
Just dont let them get away with this
Good luck
Mike
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11/15/2005 03:37:18 PM · #41 |
| I wanna know the outcome. I'm in suspense here... |
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11/15/2005 03:39:35 PM · #42 |
After they investigate do you get your card back? I would hope so. Otherwise, nice scam to get new gear.
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11/15/2005 03:39:59 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by theSaj:
I concur...I feel that is doing my part. I was outside of Circuit City and saw a beautiful sunset. I actually had my DSLR. So I got it out and started to take a picture. A minute later I was being questioned by a police officer. (Due to the "trains" in the foreground.) After showing her ID, registration, etc. She seemed consoled that all was well. However, the sunset was gone. Bummer. Annoyed. Bothered. Inconvenienced. Sorta Yes...but not really as I understood. And she was respectful and no real harm was done.
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Questions yes. ID? I think not. Why would I have to show who I was just cuz a train happens to be in the view of my picture? What if I wasn't carrying ID? Brown vs. State of Mississippi says I have no compulsion to carry ID. Do I get a trip down to the precinct then? |
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11/15/2005 03:48:52 PM · #44 |
it's all !@#$% these days...
And in the past year my respect for police officers has dropped to next to nil.
5 calls to 911 in the past 2 yrs and not a single response. Yes, I want a .22 pistol. And yes, if I feel I am endangered I will use it. Because I do not have a single shred of hope that the police will respond if I was in need.
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11/15/2005 03:49:37 PM · #45 |
This brings back an unrelated memory... sorry, but my compulsive disorder is forcing me to type it to get it out of my head...
I was doing some geological mapping one summer in Quebec, near Noranda. My assistant & I would map all day, then pitch a tent wherever we finished up, sleep the night, and continue on the next day. We were close to a small town one night. The next morning a cop woke us up... she didn't speak a word of English, my French is barely passable, I only had on my gitches, she was totally HOT!
Whew, good to get that off my chest. Sorry, please continue.
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11/15/2005 03:50:54 PM · #46 |
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11/15/2005 04:54:03 PM · #47 |
voulez vous coucher avec moi?
C'mon Slippy, you should have at least known that one ;) |
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11/15/2005 04:54:58 PM · #48 |
| how you say...."tighty whities"? |
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11/16/2005 08:06:53 AM · #49 |
Originally posted by Riponlady:
Originally posted by photodude:
It is my hope that we will all get tired of it eventually and do what we should have done on 9/12/01 - stop issuing visas of any type to citizens of terrorist nations, and revoke all of the existing ones. Once the citizens of terrorist nations are out of the USA, we can go back to being a free society again. |
I KNOW I should ignore this but please let's not bring this type of bigoted response into every thread that deals in any shape or form with the law, freedom of society, foreigners, the price of fuel or the best place to buy a tripod!!!!
Keep it for the rant section!
P |
This is not a "bigoted" statement. We are at war with these people. They threaten our way of life and perhaps our very existance. During WWII, were we letting in German and Japanese tourists or students?
If you don't live in a major metropolitan area, it's easy to feel safe and say it doesn't matter. But if you do, you are a target, you have to live with annoying intrusions on your basic liberty and freedom (which really won't do much good in the end), and you know that these people are here - legally in many cases.
So get off the politically correct soapbox. They are the enemy and we need to start thinking that way. And BTW, this is in Rant. |
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11/16/2005 09:08:56 AM · #50 |
Originally posted by photodude:
Originally posted by Riponlady:
Originally posted by photodude:
It is my hope that we will all get tired of it eventually and do what we should have done on 9/12/01 - stop issuing visas of any type to citizens of terrorist nations, and revoke all of the existing ones. Once the citizens of terrorist nations are out of the USA, we can go back to being a free society again. |
I KNOW I should ignore this but please let's not bring this type of bigoted response into every thread that deals in any shape or form with the law, freedom of society, foreigners, the price of fuel or the best place to buy a tripod!!!!
Keep it for the rant section!
P |
This is not a "bigoted" statement. We are at war with these people. They threaten our way of life and perhaps our very existance. During WWII, were we letting in German and Japanese tourists or students?
If you don't live in a major metropolitan area, it's easy to feel safe and say it doesn't matter. But if you do, you are a target, you have to live with annoying intrusions on your basic liberty and freedom (which really won't do much good in the end), and you know that these people are here - legally in many cases.
So get off the politically correct soapbox. They are the enemy and we need to start thinking that way. And BTW, this is in Rant. |
You are not at war with these people! You ( as in the USA) are suffering what we are all suffering, the threat of terrorist action by terrorists. The majority of muslims are as horrified by the actions of a few as you are. The fact that in your country are members of the Muslim faith who may have been born there, people who have a legal right to be there as they have been given visas and people who have converted to the Muslim faith does not mean that they are terrorists anymore than every American is a republican, a democrat , a catholic or a methodist.
How would you differentiate between 'terrorist nations" and "non-terrorist nations"? Are UK citizens OK to enter? Perhaps you don't know that the terrorists who bombed London were British born. Three were from Asian background and one was West Indian. The bomber on the plane who tried to blow it up using a device in his trainer was British.
And don't tell me I able to take this stance because I do not at present live in a metropolitan are where my liberty/freedoms are impinged upon by restrictions. I lived through the London bombings in the 70's by the IRA ( funded greatly by USA donations - should we have called the USA a terrorist country??), when we had not just one bomb but bombs almost monthly in public places that killed many. I am used to having my bags searched, to seeing constant reminders not to leave bags etc around, even having a pupil on a schiool trip brought before security guards for leaving his bag in a London museum. I live with the knowledge that both my children live and work in central London, my son's flat being yards from Aldgate East Underground station, my sister-in-law being on the train that went through minutes before the bombed train, frantically trying to contact my family to check they were alive after bombings.
I take this stance because I will not let the terrorists win! I WILL travel the country as I want, I WILL travel to the Middle East, I WILL put up with minor hassles in my daily life to ensure everyone is as safe as can be, I WILL NOT allow them to poison my mind against all people of a different faith, colour or nationality just for the reason of those differences. If I allow them to take away these then they have won.
I am not on a politically correct soapbox as you put it - the enemy here is that our humanity is twisted by these terrorists and we never get it back.
I am sorry about the typo in the rant comment - I meant to insert "appropriate" before rant.
P
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