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11/12/2005 02:08:51 PM · #1 |
In one of the current challenges I just received the following comment (edited to be non-specific):
"You have captured such vibrant colors. I think it's a terrific (snip) shot, but if someone showed me this photo and asked me to guess a category, I would never think of "(challenge topic)." Therefore, even though I think it's a great shot I have given it a lower score."
Question:
How many of you use, as a criterion for your voting, whether or not you could identify the "category" the image is slotted into absent the challenge topic to define it? This seems pretty literal to me, inasmuch as we HAVE topics, the pictures are ALREADY sorted, so the interesting thing for me is to see how a photographer has chosen to interpret the topic, NOT how obvious he has been in his interpretation.
Does that make sense? It seems to me, in other words, that this approach, taken to extremes, encourages the straightforward over the creative, the banal over the unexpected juxtaposition. I've seen the approach described before as "Think of the challenge "Love" as an assignment to shoot a cover shot for "Love" magazine. Would the editors choose your image as a cover shot representative of what their magazine is about?"
I'm not complaining, I'm just curious.
Robt. |
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11/12/2005 02:11:04 PM · #2 |
| I'm all for the free interpretation of the challenge theme - and believe that as a rule, many very valid interpretations are unjustly voted down. But that's just me... :-) |
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11/12/2005 02:22:04 PM · #3 |
I've actually scored quite high, photos that to me have no bearing (excuse pun) on the challenge, because the photo deserved it and maybe it's me limiting my interpretation of the challenge, not the photographer.
I had a similar comment the other day from a bag over head voter. It left me scratching my head - it would be as if the the challenge was agriculture and I had submitted a photo of harvesting with a diffused filter thrown in and then told it was to surreal and didn't fit the challenge. |
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11/12/2005 02:27:09 PM · #4 |
Whatever criteria a voter uses to determine their score is correct, by definition.
Meeting the challenge or fiting a category are as legitimate as photo quality. Is it fair or does it make sense? Maybe not to us but it does to the voter and that is all that matters.
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11/12/2005 02:27:18 PM · #5 |
I would rather ask myself why the image is there in the challenge and ask myself how I can connect it to the theme (not the category - whatever thawt is). I will try to undersatnd the image and the person who produced it.
If I cannot, I might ask something, even if it sounds stupid.
I think I have done that even on one of your (bear_music) images when I couldn't figure out what the image was doing in the challenge and when I couldn't understand what it really means.
That's why I feel that it would be a good idea if voters are able to read what the photographer has to say about the image.
The way the site is set-up now, I think it's the 'pretty picture' that stand a better chance of doing well, when the idea of the website, as I understand, is to help the participants improve their 'photography'.
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11/12/2005 02:29:14 PM · #6 |
Originally posted by stdavidson:
Whatever criteria a voter uses to determine their score is correct, by definition.
Meeting the challenge or fiting a category are as legitimate as photo quality. Is it fair or does it make sense? Maybe not to us but it does to the voter and that is all that matters. |
Oh, yes, it's definitely all legitimate voting. My question is, basically, how many of us think this way, this literally? Just curious. No beef here. I do what I'm gonna do regardless :-)
And I'm NOT "advocating" total disregard of the challenge theme. Not at all. This just seems to me to be an extreme narrowing-down of it: "If I can't GUESS what challenge this belongs in, you are gonna lose points." There are plenty of excellent, high-scoring images that if you didn't know what the theme was you wouldn't be able to name it.
So I just wonder how many people think this way? Obviously not all of us :-)
Robt.
Message edited by author 2005-11-12 14:32:08. |
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11/12/2005 02:37:07 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by bear_music:
Originally posted by stdavidson:
Whatever criteria a voter uses to determine their score is correct, by definition.
Meeting the challenge or fiting a category are as legitimate as photo quality. Is it fair or does it make sense? Maybe not to us but it does to the voter and that is all that matters. |
Oh, yes, it's definitely all legitimate voting. My question is, basically, how many of us think this way, this literally? Just curious. No beef here. I do what I'm gonna do regardless :-)
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Not me... I vote the image. An image must stand on its own long after the challenge topic is forgotten.
If the image is bad, its bad. If the image is good, its good. I assume the photographer met the challenge according to their own criteria but give extra credit for images that fit the challenge topic particularly well according to my criteria.
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11/12/2005 02:37:48 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by bear_music:
How many of you use, as a criterion for your voting, whether or not you could identify the "category" the image is slotted into absent the challenge topic to define it? This seems pretty literal to me, inasmuch as we HAVE topics, the pictures are ALREADY sorted, so the interesting thing for me is to see how a photographer has chosen to interpret the topic, NOT how obvious he has been in his interpretation.
Does that make sense? It seems to me, in other words, that this approach, taken to extremes, encourages the straightforward over the creative, the banal over the unexpected juxtaposition. I've seen the approach described before as "Think of the challenge "Love" as an assignment to shoot a cover shot for "Love" magazine. Would the editors choose your image as a cover shot representative of what their magazine is about?"
I'm not complaining, I'm just curious.
Robt. |
t
this is the very thing that seems to separate people on this site IMO. i love looking at the challenge as a "challenge" to be creative..but really I have become less interested in scores (pleasing everyone), and more interested in exciting myself and hopefully a few others along the way..
my favs usually score mid 5's..the higher scoring shots of mine tend to be more boring..
so I am scoring around 5.3 in a current challenge with 2 favs and 1 wish list..and it is a shot I love..
when I score a shot the highest, it must be inspired..
oh and without a hint of bitterness, rather a smile..the doorframe is framing the door...I know, I know, no real frame, again this is with a smile...
(see Bear's comment)
Message edited by author 2005-11-12 14:43:53. |
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11/12/2005 02:55:50 PM · #9 |
Ummm. it depends for me. If a photo is outstanding but to me , with the broadest interpretation possible, does not in any way meet the challenge, I might give it a 7 instead of a 9 or 10. But I try to give the most generous benefit of the doubt. I didn't used to be that way when I first joined, but maybe I'm becoming a cynical old woman. God, I hope not.
;~D |
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11/12/2005 04:01:24 PM · #10 |
Hmm I feel as if I am not matching the status quo here...To me, we are offered a challenge, and that is to take a picture of X...the challenge is not to submit the best shot you took this week. I think the highest vote I have given a blatantly non challenge fitting entry is 5. Now I am generous with individuals interpretation , but if the challenge is landscape and I see a portrait of your child or dog, no matter how stunning, to me this fails the challenge.
Am I being to hard?? |
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11/12/2005 04:03:11 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by Rae-Ann:
Hmm I feel as if I am not matching the status quo here...To me, we are offered a challenge, and that is to take a picture of X...the challenge is not to submit the best shot you took this week. I think the highest vote I have given a blatantly non challenge fitting entry is 5. Now I am generous with individuals interpretation , but if the challenge is landscape and I see a portrait of your child or dog, no matter how stunning, to me this fails the challenge.
Am I being to hard?? |
...but what if it had landscape in the title :P
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11/12/2005 04:04:08 PM · #12 |
How about 2 scores for each shot?? One for meeting the challenge and the other for technique ( whatever your word is)The winner could have the highest average of the 2, but there would also be spots for solely best interpretation of the challenge, AND solely best technically good shot??
Just a wee thought..... |
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11/12/2005 04:05:09 PM · #13 |
...but what if it had landscape in the title :P [/quote]
ROTFLOL!!! |
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11/12/2005 04:11:42 PM · #14 |
Some challenges seem more appropriate to apply this than others. I left a number of comments on the Personification challenge saying, "I didn't see what you were after until I read the title." That got a knockdown of 2 points or so. There were three groups of pictures in that challenge: the excellent pictures where you could sense the personification without the title, the pictures where you could see it once you read the title, and the pictures where even the title didn't help. Those pictures, regardless of photo quality, were stratified to me since it was the essence of the challenge.
On the other hand, I was very liberal on voting Landscapes. Seascape, Cityscape, Skyscape, I took each photo for what it was going for. I didn't vote Cityscapes lower than Seascapes just because.
Message edited by author 2005-11-12 16:13:19. |
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11/12/2005 04:12:15 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by Rae-Ann:
Am I being to hard?? |
Not at all. The rules do state, "While voting, users are asked to keep in highest consideration the topic of the challenge and base their rating accordingly." |
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11/12/2005 04:19:56 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by mk:
Not at all. The rules do state, "While voting, users are asked to keep in highest consideration the topic of the challenge and base their rating accordingly." |
Thanks, I have noticed alot of folks here are kinda loose with that rule ( Not refering to you DrAchoo, I am with you on allowing for some intrepretation)
I just wanted to make sure I wasn't being to tough on folks! |
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11/12/2005 04:23:22 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by bear_music:
Question:
How many of you use, as a criterion for your voting, whether or not you could identify the "category" the image is slotted into absent the challenge topic to define it?
Robt. |
I hope I'm pretty liberal on interpretation. I'd hate to become one of the Title Police or Category Nazis.
I definitely look at the picture first. If I can't link it to the category, then I look at the title. At that point, the light bulb usually goes on over my head, and I think, "Good idea. Why did't I think of that!" The only time I really mark down is when a really horrible and, to me, off-topic picture is entered. Then I feel free to distribute 1's lavishly. An exampe of this would be an out of focus picture of a sleeping baby in the challenge "Action Sports". |
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11/12/2005 04:29:28 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by stdavidson:
...Meeting the challenge or fiting a category are as legitimate as photo quality... |
Yes. I enjoy photos that brings challenge message AND photo quality - artistic and technical. I do not like those snapshots just fitting a challenge, e.g. pile of garbage in a Garbage challenge. I don't give high scores to quality photos that obviously does not belong to challenge. Especially when I read titles that are given to artificially accomodate a photo to the challenge. There are lot of places just to share photos.
I take a challenge as a whole - here's the theme, show us how you see it, do it best possible way, surprise us with your creativity, humour, spirituality and technical excelence. And when I find such photo (I find a lot of them) - I enjoy, and give highest rates to it. |
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11/12/2005 05:01:54 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by Rae-Ann:
How about 2 scores for each shot?? One for meeting the challenge and the other for technique ( whatever your word is)The winner could have the highest average of the 2, but there would also be spots for solely best interpretation of the challenge, AND solely best technically good shot??
Just a wee thought..... |
now that could be interesting. like figure skating. what? umm.. no I do not and have never watched figure skating. Stop looking at me!! I'm a MAN I swear!
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11/12/2005 06:47:11 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by Rae-Ann:
Hmm I feel as if I am not matching the status quo here...To me, we are offered a challenge, and that is to take a picture of X...the challenge is not to submit the best shot you took this week. I think the highest vote I have given a blatantly non challenge fitting entry is 5. Now I am generous with individuals interpretation , but if the challenge is landscape and I see a portrait of your child or dog, no matter how stunning, to me this fails the challenge.
Am I being to hard?? |
Not at all, but that wasn't the question. I completely agree that a baby portrait in a landscape challenge is sort of non-responisve. My questionw as much more limited:
Do you vote down images that you could not identify as challenge-related if they were not in the challenge in the first place? In other words, since you can SEE they are in the challenge, you can see what the shooter was getting at, but it's not obvious enough that if someone showed you the image and said "what challenge would you guess this was in" you'd necessarily get the answer right.
R. |
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11/12/2005 07:20:10 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by bear_music:
Do you vote down images that you could not identify as challenge-related if they were not in the challenge in the first place? In other words, since you can SEE they are in the challenge, you can see what the shooter was getting at, but it's not obvious enough that if someone showed you the image and said "what challenge would you guess this was in" you'd necessarily get the answer right.
R. |
I probably vote a little this way. To me the challenge is a specific client request, so the photo must be able to be identified to me as part of that. To score 9/10 for me I would need to be able to roughly guess the challenge from the photo even if I did not know the challenge title.
If I could not guess without knowing the challenge first then it still could get a good score but not a top score. A photo that obviously has nothing to do with the challenge will score much lower for me to the point to get an average score it would need to be very good. Obviously the bulk are in the middle. |
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11/12/2005 07:26:58 PM · #22 |
I think this seems to be a question of voting and challenge philosophy in general.
Some people tend to take thing like Robs, in that a challenge statement is more like a client request.
Others take a more artistic view of the situation, and want to see how far they can push the limits of the definition and still remain on the reservation.
Unfortunately, each person seems to draw their own map of that reservation. :0)
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11/12/2005 07:29:30 PM · #23 |
Speaking for only myself, which is all I can ever speak for, of course, I usually look at the image, then the title if I do not "get" it, and if I still cannot get it, usually gets a lower score. For to me, you are supposed to convey the "challenge objective" to the viewer, and to me that is the main objective in a limited challenge.
To help clarify - I hope - use a title challenge of "red", nice one word title. Picture of a girl with red hair, no prob, red dress, no prob, photo of Chinese army probably would need title but then would be okay, same with meeting of communist party. Now TO ME, a picture of a yellow flower on a green grass background - even with a title such as " Banks of the RED River" probably would not do, picture of the Red River, WOULD do. Picture of same flower with a red center probably would get a very slightly lower score as the main object was RED, so unless the center was the object, as in a macro, to me maybe it meets the challenge, but I would have reservations about it.
Know that is only my idea, and have had this discussion on IM with another here, but that is the way I think about it anyway, hope it helps you a little bear!!
Jacque
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11/12/2005 10:35:24 PM · #24 |
I don't vote it down for not having an instantly identifiable "theme" if one were to see the photo outside the knowlege of the dpc theme. I hope that applies to the question you are asking. I do, of course, consider how well it interprets the acknowledged theme (among all the other elements of the photo as well.)
What I have done, however, is if I am critiquing a photo for the Critique Club I will look at the photo before looking at which challenge it was entered in. With knowing a range of a few themes it COULD apply to (recent challenges), it's fun to try and guess which challenge it "fits". Sometimes it's very evident, other times not so much so.
Message edited by author 2005-11-12 22:36:24. |
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11/12/2005 10:43:21 PM · #25 |
So let me ask....so a good photo which is technically sound, can win a challenge even if it doesn't exactly meet the "theme"?
g
Message edited by author 2005-11-12 22:43:45.
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